The Sum of All Fears Mafia

On March 27 2012 07:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
Cool guys, am I really one of the only "vets" in this game?

ATTENTION SCUM! IT WILL BE IN YOUR BEST INTEREST TO PUT ME ON THE BACK FOOT IMMEDIATELY! IF YOU ATTEMPT TO HIDE I WILL FIND YOU!

That being said, I'm in favor of lynching a lurker if we can't find a good scum candidate (fat chance) and I'm not in favor of lynching "liars". Lynching is for killing scum, not for punishing "bad play".

"But VE, isn't lynching a lurker the same thing as lynching to punish bad play?"

No kind sir, lurking isn't just bad play...lurking is a very viable strategy that scum often employ to hide.

For my part, I'll be keeping my eye on C_C and to a lesser extent BH due to them being among the only names I recognize as players who have played more than like 2 games here. This is one of the first games I've played where the average experience level is so low...so I'm probably not going to be on the offensive as much this game...but I make no guarantees.

On March 27 2012 10:36 slOosh wrote:

You seem to forget mafia's second wincon which allows them to win should one faction (US or SU) be eliminated.
Could you explain your previous / current stance on lynching in light of this information? Also, do you really think it is feasible that we can kill a few mafia and still have absolutely no leads that we should default to lynching lurkers?

On March 27 2012 18:32 Bluelightz wrote:
Reads, Reads!

Blazinghand ---> Catapaulted to very sure is townie from his recent posting(Active, Pressuring people, etc) and being funny and awesome in starcraft ^_^

Some random summaries

MrZentor --> Has been following Discussion, has not provided any reads, I'd love some reads from him.

gonzaw --> Has followed discussion, setup speculation, I'd love some reads and more content from him .

ET --> Townie, has followed discussion pressed people to post, preety townie

C_C ---> Needs to step up, he has nothing of substance, has not taken a stance on anything yet, I want reads, willing to lynch depending on what he post's next.

On March 27 2012 23:00 Bluelightz wrote:
Zentor, since your here, What is your read on EchelonTee?

On March 27 2012 10:14 EchelonTee wrote:


honestly I am treating this game like a standard Mini Mafia, with the knowledge that there is probably a few doods with nukes or powers revolving around nukes. AKA, re-skinned medics/vigs.

and if there's anything I learned from minis, it's that there's always scum hiding in the lurkers. In general I'll always argue against policy lynches (because they're bad) but in a Mini, with so few people town simply cannot afford to have non-contributors whose alignment cannot be determined. People lurking scummily (yeah there's a difference between innocent lurking and scummily lurking) should be axed over someone with only a weak case on them.

gonzaw! shouldn't you be spamming the thread by now?

On March 27 2012 12:59 EchelonTee wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
preface: this aint no chainsaw

blzinghand, I feel that you're being the unnecessarily aggressive one here. first you say it's bad that nemesis is using policy as a centerpiece for lynching, then you state it's bad that nemesis says policy lynch discussion isn't important? your arguement doesn't flow. and dude, you misread his original post; he's saying "town should take stance" as in townies should each have their own stance. ur being all flashy and stuff. is this normal BH?

+ Show Spoiler +

On March 27 2012 13:15 EchelonTee wrote:
blzinghand i think you talking craAAAzzzy, and not the crazy I like. I mean just look at this nonsensical post

+ Show Spoiler +

Blazinghand: I thought you went to sleep.
Nemesis: I was just checking thr-
Blazinghand: He lied!! Townies never wake back up!! Lynch!!!
Jubjubs (chanting): It makes so much sense!

On March 27 2012 14:09 EchelonTee wrote:
TAKE ON SOMEONE YOUR OWN SIZE BUB

##vote: Blazinghand

Being good at arguing doesn't make you town. At this point you're just wildly voting people. Sowing dat chaos. Way to take the one off statement in his post and ignore the rest. You're voting people off of semantic mistakes as opposed to having any real reasoning, so thread flounders under your boot. As you might say, this kind of thinking hurts town. Scum.

On March 27 2012 23:38 zelblade wrote:


Guys I think that we have found our first nazi here.

Here MrZentor corrects bluelightz's grammar, basically acting like a grammar nazi.

I think our first scum just claimed. LYNCHHHHHHHHHHHH

On March 27 2012 23:43 VisceraEyes wrote:
zel and Zentor - discussing town-reads is like, COOL and everything...but I'd like to use our time to find scum if you don't mind. Townhunting is more effective late-game when there are fewer people to speculate about.

You two need to post your thoughts on my case against C_C in detail and give your thoughts on my other scum-read gonzaw.

On March 27 2012 11:24 gonzaw wrote:
Got back from uni.
Let's hunt some nazis.





I doubt I need to ask 100 questions to everybody, considering this is a smaller game, so don't worry about that too much.
I'll try not to "hurt your eyes" this time



I think it's obvious that nobody likes lurkers, but lurking alone doesn't mean they should be lynched immediately. It just means you need to call them out, make them contribute, and put them under more scrutiny than other players, since they can easily fly unnoticed.




@VE: I have to agree with johnny here, why do you prod someone about taking stances 1 post into the game?
Even as pressure that doesn't seem very helpful.






Also, I'd recomend nobody even slightly hint what nationality they are from. As far as I know, town don't get ANY information whatsoever if someone is US or SU, but scum can use that info to try and get their alternative win-con.
So no nationality claims, nor any hint to them.
If you have to claim just claim your role and nothing else.

On March 27 2012 12:10 gonzaw wrote:



There may be a hidden town role out there that functions depending if its target is US or SU, or depending on how many there are of each.
Maybe there's a mason that can only recruit US players. Maybe there's a medic that can only save SU ones.
How would I know if I wasn't one of these roles myself?

The point is that I doubt there may be a role like that out there, and if there is it won't do us much good, at least to counteract the advantages scum get by nationality-claiming.

On March 28 2012 01:17 VisceraEyes wrote:


The italicized I disagree with. Here's why.

Think about why he's posting it. I'll post it here for convenience.


Look at the size of this post sir. Take a good look at it.

Now see if you can tell me after reading it again who gonzaw thinks is scum.
+ Show Spoiler [My Guess] +
If you can, it's because you're assuming something based on what he says, but he never actually says that he thinks anyone is scum. Is he suspicious of me? His post seems to be mildly discrediting me (unclear of the point of my posts, asking if it has helped though not apparently interested in the results, negative language like "pointless" and "dwelled"). Not to mention the fact that it's clear that he's not even reading the thread fully, which I'm assuming because he commented @me but didn't comment on my largest contribution OR my vote so far. He's dancing around issues that should matter to actual townies, while spreading doubt simultaneously (read: BH, VE, Blue, ET).

This is the most suspicious post he's made so far MrZentor. What do you think about that?

On March 28 2012 02:10 gonzaw wrote:



I'm trying to figure out if you are doing this on purpose or not.
I think some people said you acted like this in C9++ too, but really, this is very bad.


Yes, I didn't say who I thought was scum at that moment, because I didn't think anyone was scum at that point.
This is Day 1, and only 10 or so hours had passed since the day started. I needed more info to make up my mind, and I thought ET and Blue's behaviour was suspicious so I asked them some questions (I'd like ET to respond as soon as he can as well).

Do you seriously think I'm scum because I didn't think anyone was scum at that point? That's a very shitty reasoning.
Does this mean that because you FOSed someone 1 hour into the game this makes you confirmed town or something?

And no, I'm not spreading doubt, I'm asking people for responses which I'm awaiting.


If you were any other player, you would be suspicious as fuck; but I know that you have this weird playstyle as town just like BH. You are being very active and pushing people, even though you don't make much sense with some issues.
You made some sense regarding the BH vs jhonny issue, which is why at the moment I think you are just rushing things through and making bad cases.


And what do you mean by this?:



I don't think I "danced around" anything.


@Zentor: So you said my post wasn't that suspicious, and now you say it was more suspicious than you thought.
Again, did you suddenly change your mind just because of VE's post?
Could you stop sheeping and tell us exactly what you think about that post I made?
I also want your thoughts on Bluelightz.

@sloosh: Good that you are here. Would you mind posting your thoughts on this issue about me? Do you think I'm scum or not?

On March 28 2012 02:48 gonzaw wrote:
@Nemensis: Was that directed at me?



Either way I'll answer it nevertheless.


I'm waiting for the responses for Blue and Zentor. If none of them respond, or respond very badly, I'd want them lynched, but I'm waiting for both to respond first.
If C_C doesn't come here and post his thoughts before the day ends, then he's not a bad lynch either.
I'm having some doubts about other players, and I'd want their responses before posting my thoughts on them.

---

PRE-EDIT:

@Zentor: No you didn't. Here is the only part where you referenced it:



You never said why it wasn't as suspicious as the other ones, even though you think I'm scum. And now you don't say why now suddenly you think it's suspicious as well, other than saying "I agree with VE".


One more thing, before you said this about VE:



Which means you have doubts about his alignment.
However, you now decide to take everything he says as true without hesitation, which is the opposite of being "afraid" of him

What exactly about Blue's behaviour is pro-town to you?

---

PRE-EDIT2:

Do I have to repeat myself? Reread my posts if you want to see my stance on him and your vote on him.



When did I imply anything like that? I always have said since the beginning of dawn in TL that discussion about lurkers, policy lynch, etc is useless to determine someone's alignment. In my games I just post 1 paragraph about it to get it over with and deal with other stuff.
Why would you even say something like that if it is obvious I never said nor implied something similar?



I'd be willing to vote for him if he lurks througout the whole day, and doesn't post anything or posts anything of no value.
Basicly, I'll vote for him if his future behaviour is scummy. I don't find him any more suspicious than say ccalf/Sinensis/players that haven't posted too much since.




Do I need to tell you everything? I thought you were smarter than that.

I thought it was obvious that the players I'm pressuring, and asking everybody questions about them are the ones I'm suspicious of.

What, do you want me to make a list about who's "suspicious" and who isn't or something?



I won't do what you want. I want responses, and when I get them I'll assess who is most likely scum and vote for him. I won't try to "prove you wrong" by sheeping you.
If my defense so far isn't good enough for you, well, tough luck, I hope other players think otherwise.


Anyways VE, what do you think about Blue and Zentor?

On March 27 2012 18:32 Bluelightz wrote:
Reads, Reads!

Blazinghand ---> Catapaulted to very sure is townie from his recent posting(Active, Pressuring people, etc) and being funny and awesome in starcraft ^_^

Some random summaries

MrZentor --> Has been following Discussion, has not provided any reads, I'd love some reads from him.

gonzaw --> Has followed discussion, setup speculation, I'd love some reads and more content from him .

ET --> Townie, has followed discussion pressed people to post, preety townie

C_C ---> Needs to step up, he has nothing of substance, has not taken a stance on anything yet, I want reads, willing to lynch depending on what he post's next.

On March 27 2012 23:00 Bluelightz wrote:
Zentor, since your here, What is your read on EchelonTee?

On March 27 2012 23:19 Bluelightz wrote:
Hmm VE Good Point, Gonna read some others though, as for my scum read, what do you think of cccalf's response to my post?

On March 27 2012 23:30 Bluelightz wrote:
I don't like his posts, his first post has lots of fluff( I might say but I'm not so sure on this one). his second is setup speculation, it takes TWO posts to get his point out and clear >_>?, wait a sec on his 3rd post still thinking about

On March 27 2012 23:46 Bluelightz wrote:
Alright guys gonna go sleep for tonight, cya in the morning as a summary, C_C and cccalf, and possibly gonzaw I will vote for if you guys want to lynch him in the morning when I wake up, other lynch candidates I will review before voting.

On March 29 2012 21:51 gonzaw wrote:


Had you even read the thread by that point? Why did you vote him and not another one?
Generally when one makes a placeholder vote, you make it on yourself or on a random person, which clearly wasn't the case.
What were your reasons for voting C_C? Just because he had the majority?
If so, can't you see how bad that is?



So what do you think about other players and cases against other players? What do you think about my case against Blue and Zentor?

Final question: Why shouldn't a vig just shoot you tonight? You need to become way more active and contribute more than this if you want to even help us. You've already skated by 1 whole cycle, we can't allow you to do the same on D2.

On March 30 2012 02:28 slOosh wrote:
I would also like to bring up MrZentor as a lynch candidate.

gonzaw has brought up some decent stuff in his case here. But I found him suspicious for different things so I'll address that now.

The context is very important here. Please read the posts surrounding his instead of just the filter.

This is written on page 12, after VE posted his initial case on CC and much after CC posted his first post containing the "accusation" and the flag. Then comes a couple of pages of discussion on gonzaw, bluelightz, ET and such. Nothing but one post from Nemesis, who comments the "lack of stance" as suspicious. Watch MrZentor's next post:



There is nothing in the thread itself discussing the flag itself. There is no new public content in between his first post in which he says "people are reading too much into his initial post", and "his initial post looks suspicious". He agrees that the flag is really bizarre but did not mention it in his first post - taking a very neutral stance if you will. Then suddenly he agrees with VE that the flag is indeed bizarre, despite the fact that no one has talked about it. He also throws in the bogus last line, indicating that his subtle accusation is also evidence against him, despite the fact that "people are reading too much into his initial post".

Verdict: MrZentor initially took a neutral stance, and after observation of how the town reacted to the case decided to help push it along. The lack of public thread discussion and the sharp contrast in his stance against CC suggests that he has talked to other people about it (read. scum buddies).

Also his initial post suggesting town lynch lurkers after hitting a few scum is downright weird.