EPTNew to Mafia but have read the guides. Will re-read by the time it starts. Yaaaay
Werewolves Invade Teamliquid II
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
New to Mafia but have read the guides. Will re-read by the time it starts. Yaaaay | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On February 10 2012 01:10 Blazinghand wrote: From BC's Guide: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=188179 Forgot to say thank you for finding that, so better late than never. Makes a lot of sense btw. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
yay for the start. Glhf all. I prefer skype (handle: froggynoddy) but only evening GMT. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
@ Palmar: Please could you explain to a noob (me) how you are confirmed town? And lets say that he is, I 'd like to point townies to this: From BC's Guide: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=188179 One leader This has been a problem in many games. One player in thread or in PM’s is solidified as the primary leader of the town. It somehow falls on them to do almost all the heavy lifting in the game. This causes multiple issues. If they are red, town instantly loses. If they are not careful and information is leaked to mafia, town will lose. If they are not confident in their decisions the town will become confused and you will typically lose. If you die, town is thrown into chaos and usually implodes. This can be solved by not centralizing leadership on one person. In PM games smaller 2-5 member groups thinking as small cells and analyzing/pushing beliefs, etc… are more effective than one single leader. Multiple strong personalities in a thread (see L, Ace, etc.) Multiple players like that in a thread will argue, clash and ultimately things will get done. It also lets town get a better idea of alignment on players as the more aggressive they are the more analysis you can perform on them. Anyone can learn the thread presence that the bigger named players possess and all it requires is confidence in your own abilities, and learning to not back down. Sometimes you will be wrong, but if multiple people do this in a game you get essentially an in game thought circle. People will toss ideas at each other and ultimately stronger analysis is usually accomplished. If you notice only one player is stepping up and you feel you have an important point to add, push it through. Your opinion may be disagreed with but that doesn’t make it any less valid. re Grack: how experienced is he? If he's new I could imagine that being defensive could be quite natural as a townie (just trying to imagine how I would react to an allegation myself). Re BH: being rude is not cool particularly as you were so nice to me pre-game , but I guess we'd need to see his game history to see if he reacts rudely to allegations as townie or scum or whether thats his normal play.+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
Also I don´t understand why Palmar wants sinani206 and prplhz killed. I can´t see this helping town in any way. A town player (even a useless one) at least counts as townie. So why should we kill someone, if we don´t gain anything? From my reading of other games its worthwhile, particularly at this relatively random stage of early game, to get rid of anyone harming toen, confrimed scum or not (unless obv there is a better/scumier alternative) as that 'useless townie' is causing confusion and therefore aiding scum agenda. At leasts thats my understanding, any vets wish to confirm/deny/shove my head in dung for being stupid? PS: this ones just for you layabout: + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + HAH! GOT YOU! | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On February 14 2012 00:46 Mattchew wrote: soft defense of palmar, yall scum buddies? No, just reasoning out the potential justification for town to lynch disruptive/chaos inducing posters. as my second post suggests I don't see any evidence to justify Palmar's conclusion. Though I find Palmar's talk of killing players so early (particularly at night) quite odd I don't know if that has any bearing on his alignment. I don't know, not enough has been said yet, but we still have plenty of time till we get voting. Once I get home though I wanna check Palmar and BH's previous games as they both have been acting quite aggressive. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On February 14 2012 01:04 Blazinghand wrote: Ok let me be a little more clear since just posting "LOLLLLLL" is unhelpful. I would accurately characterize my play as unusually aggressive and-or dickish (especially in my first few games here on TL). Here's games I've completed: XLVII: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=133498 Student: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067&user=133498 Resistance: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=297525&user=133498&user=133498 Purgatory: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603&user=133498 Enjoy Thank you that is more useful than LOLLLLLL. TBH I'm only doing this to practice information gathering and analysis, I think there's no evidence to make any kind of read atm. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
IMO: probably none. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On February 14 2012 22:10 prplhz wrote: Multiple lynches is a good idea. Two or three guys should die today. I don't mind throwing a lurker in there at all. I know it was discussed on IRC but do you mind summarizing why? | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
[16:01:49] <Palmar> double lynch is ridiculously town favored [16:02:31] <Palmar> both statistically and logically [16:03:00] <Palmar> it's very common that there is one scum candidate in the top 3 targets for a lynch [16:03:10] <Palmar> but it's quite uncommon that the scum actually gets lynched [16:03:20] <Palmar> by forcing double lynches that chance is higher [16:03:23] <Palmar> in addition [16:03:29] <mderg> but there could also be no scum in the top candidates at all [16:03:33] <Palmar> of course [16:03:42] <Palmar> but that means we're terrible [16:03:44] <Palmar> and I'm not terrible [16:03:49] <mderg> so there must be good reasons for lynching them [16:03:52] <Palmar> of course [16:04:00] <Palmar> a pretty good reason is me saying so [16:04:13] <mderg> we can´t just double lynch for the sake of double lynching [16:04:19] <Palmar> of course we can [16:04:25] <Mattchew> lol [16:05:19] <mderg> we can but it doesn´t make sense [16:07:17] <Grackaroni> I can agree with double lynching In addition even if we mislynch one out of two that still favours town, plus as previously mentioned it allows for scum to give something away in the final stages of voting. What I want to reiterate this point from BC's guide: + Show Spoiler + One leader This has been a problem in many games. One player in thread or in PM’s is solidified as the primary leader of the town. It somehow falls on them to do almost all the heavy lifting in the game. This causes multiple issues. If they are red, town instantly loses. If they are not careful and information is leaked to mafia, town will lose. If they are not confident in their decisions the town will become confused and you will typically lose. If you die, town is thrown into chaos and usually implodes. This can be solved by not centralizing leadership on one person. In PM games smaller 2-5 member groups thinking as small cells and analyzing/pushing beliefs, etc… are more effective than one single leader. Multiple strong personalities in a thread (see L, Ace, etc.) Multiple players like that in a thread will argue, clash and ultimately things will get done. It also lets town get a better idea of alignment on players as the more aggressive they are the more analysis you can perform on them. Anyone can learn the thread presence that the bigger named players possess and all it requires is confidence in your own abilities, and learning to not back down. Sometimes you will be wrong, but if multiple people do this in a game you get essentially an in game thought circle. People will toss ideas at each other and ultimately stronger analysis is usually accomplished. If you notice only one player is stepping up and you feel you have an important point to add, push it through. Your opinion may be disagreed with but that doesn’t make it any less valid. As much as I understand Palmar's reputation as a first-class scumhunter, lets make sure that the reasoning is sound for any case that is made and that we do not fall into the logical fallacy (I love that word) that is the appeal to authority. This goes for everyone oc. PS: am going out to dinner tonight... don't judge me. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
Right, my reads: Scummy Firstly I would like to say I'm finding it really difficult to differentiate scummy with bad/noob play. That, and the fact that its Day 1 does not give me much confidence in my reads. In no particular order: 1. Spiritclown [20:45:53] <SpiritClown> since we want u to suffer we will not shoot or lynch u Schworz ^^ Similar to what Paperscraps said this does not sit well with me. Again this could be language issues or just finding the game difficult (God knows I am). But both these factors could induce a slip-up though. His rather weak response seams to go in that direction also: And prob the thing about shooting i was referring to town blues and it was also a joke -.- Could still be just an honest slip up but this early in the game any evidence seems to be worth acting on. 2. [UoN]Sentinel Claiming to be scum seems like a stupid move, both as scum and as townie. Its probably a slightly stupider move as scum as he was talking to someone who seems to be regarded as townier than most... thats a thin defence though. [01:39:43] <Paperscraps> sentinel you town bro? [01:39:54] <[UoN]Sentinel> no [01:39:55] <[UoN]Sentinel> i'm scum [01:39:59] <Paperscraps> k [01:40:03] <[UoN]Sentinel> in fact i'm going to kill you tonight People I think might not be scum but aren't helping town much: 1. Sinani 206: As said previously you just don't seem to care. That hurts town as it makes you a suspect. typical game with me in it: i die day one. town wastes a lynch. then town loses. also, kenpachi is right over the last few pages about a lot of stuff and also i hate bandwagons. a lot. cause im bad Time to rethink your style of play perhaps? 2. Grackaroni: Ever since people have stopped suspecting you you have taken a back seat (apart form your tunnelling of Bluelightz.) 3. Zeurg: Inactivity hurts town. Looks like scum, makes us waste a lynch if not scum. 4. Kenpachi: Apart from defending yourself, being a bit dickish and telling everyone how much IRC sucks I don't see much substance. Obv nothing meriting a scum read yet but I don't like you. Saying that you are unpredictable as both scum and townie means that you cause as much chaos as a person can do. You would therefore not be a loss to town. People I'm Worried about: Palmar: I'm worried mainly due to your reputation and your relatively weak case against sinani: + Show Spoiler + Palmar Iceland. February 16 2012 08:39. Posts 4747 PM Profile Blog Report Quote # filter So, I think we should kill sinani206. The reason is quite simple. He has refused to contribute in to the thread in a manner that might actually help us find scum. Yet he's fine with hopping into the thread to call some random play bad. That's just posting for the sake of posting. On February 15 2012 09:13 sinani206 wrote: Show nested quote + townie lists are bad i honestly dont care if you think im scummy because no one else does This post serves no purpose in the thread. It's not even correct, while lacking any reasoning these lists aren't terribly useful, they at least give me an idea of how the player posting them is approaching the game. On February 15 2012 09:54 sinani206 wrote: Show nested quote + i'd rather not hide any facts. i don't have any opinions. Normally when townies are cocky it's because they think they're right, but sinani is actually being cocky without even attempting to be right. Like being cocky isn't a scumtell in itself, because usually it's townies that are assholes. But the way in which sinani is doing it is very scummy. The fact is, it's now very late in the day because of the strange deadline. And sinani has shown no interest in the game at all. The way in which he has shown and described complete disinterest in the game makes him very likely to flip scum. I suggest we make him at least one of our kills for today. ##Vote sinani206 which is pretty weak, saying nothing about others players who are equally damaging to town. I realise this may be purposeful but... am worried. The only thing that makes me less worried is you said this pretty early on: I think we should murder sinani206. At worst nothing of value will have been lost. Still, not liking someone does not make them scum, otherwise I would vote Kenpachi. I have opinions about other players but this post has gone on for long enough. Due to the above and current vote standings, and Town seems to want a double lynch I am therefore: ##Vote Spiritclown PS: You have a great name. Small consolation I know. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
WTF is this... you hang tomorrow Why??? + Show Spoiler + Vote count as of 9:20 PM KST (2 Hours and 40 minutes to deadline) 6 Votes: Spiritclown - Mattchew, ghost_403, Paperscraps, Grackaroni, prplhz, froggynoddy 5 Votes: sinani206 - rgTheSchworz, Lanaia, Palmar, phagga, Bluelightz 2 Votes: phagga - Kenpachi, sinani206 1 Vote: [UoN]Sentinel - Probulous zeurg - [UoN]Sentinel NOT VOTED Spiritclown, Hufy, zeurg, mderg Please PM your Night Actions/Orders before the deadline. This makes things difficult. As I was posting we needed votes on SC to double lynch. Spirit Clown is yet to vote. If I take off my vote, he can vote for Sinani and save himself. Unless you guys have worked it out better than I have I will keep my vote on him, as his best chance is to vote for sinani and convince others to do so also. If he does and they don't, we have a double lynch, if he votes on random 3rd party, then he could be protecting Sinani, which at least gives us something to work with. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
##Unvote Spiritclown ##Vote [UoN]Sentinel | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On February 16 2012 22:38 Mattchew wrote: froggy pay attention. vote spirit I know... Complete and utter fool. I understand your accusation now. I feel so stupid  | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
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