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Hammer Mini Mafia

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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1 2 3 Next All
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
January 17 2012 05:01 GMT
#67
/out MOTHERFUCKER!

(sorry joe, work/classes getting rough so i can't play =[)
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
January 28 2012 00:09 GMT
#367
Hi. Let me eat dinner/work out first and I will try to catch up.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
January 29 2012 02:45 GMT
#477
On January 29 2012 11:30 Paperscraps wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2012 09:09 chaoser wrote:
Hi. Let me eat dinner/work out first and I will try to catch up.


@Chaoser Where you at bro?


Hello! Sorry for not posting or voting today. I replaced in without thinking about my schedule and due to a heavy workload today + I had to dispense some lessons in social justice on reddit today, I was unable to fully make it through the thread. I am about half way through it and because I felt that voting/voicing my incomplete thoughts would only serve to be a negative thing to do, I refrained from both. I just got back from my night run and I have an early morning shift tomorrow (5AM-10AM) but I promise to definitely be done with reading tomorrow and contribute fully to the discussion. Sorry once again for the inconvenience.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
January 30 2012 02:00 GMT
#519
Ok so I'm finally caught up (on start of Night 1) and my thoughts:

1) I realized that a lot of people spent way too much time on the concept of vote-trading when really there should have been a lot more looking or trying to start discussions about lynching and such. Palmar is pretty much townie in my eyes since he started off the game aggressive and then backed it up by actually following through with his baiting. In particular this post was beautiful: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303505&currentpage=16#319

There were two ways to play the game circle trading (safe) and call trading (informative). I really didn't see the appeal of safe trading aside since, as Palmar said, we were giving away one of our avenues for information. Negative things happening is still information.

2) I don't understand why WBG was lynched, it seemed like the lynch was based around his meta more than anything else and that was stupid because there were more scummy people out there. On in particular, which no one really looked at was:

Dirkzor:

It starts off with a post that I thought was pretty useless, basically repeating sentinel's idea
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303505&currentpage=11#208

and then he moves onto speculating about roles, another completely useless topic. WBG calls him out on it. His posts that follow afterwards call for others to scumhunt while he does nothing, only telling Palmar to get into the game. The play seemed very passive at this point so I wasn't that suspicious. It was when he called out prplhz that I started to wonder.

Free trade or circle trading. Giving as few votes as possible seems to be best. That way least amount of town votes can potentielly end up at scum. Why would I, when I know my own allignment, give votes to a potential scum? I won't! This statement is weird and I find it scummy.


The concept of giving away more or less votes doesn't establish and can't really be used to decide if someone is scummy or not. That's like using different people's preferences for the circle-jerk v the free trade idea as a measure of scumminess, with people who wanted a different plan from you being considered "scummy". Bad reasoning and this made it seem like he was grasping at something that wasn't there.

The italic part is also written from a scum perspective. The whole process of saying how the roles affect scum seems to be from someone who is on the recieving end of the power roles. While everyone could think this, I don't think a town person would write it and certainly not in this way.


This, once again, is bad logic. How can you tell if something is written from a scum perspective or not? Once again it seems like he's trying to suggest something that is not there at all.

This is kind of similar to VE's post here:

I'm going to be honest - I'm also starting to think Palmar is town, but it's not based on a belief that I think he's acting scummy to test reactions. It could be, but that's not why. I think Palmar is town based almost exclusively on the fact that scummy players like Paperscraps are defending the way he's playing.


which is also reaching for a connection that is not there.

I would be ok with lynching either one of them.

3) Aside from them, layabout also does the "write a long post about nothing" and then later on when the vote trading topic had died down a bit, brings it up again while bringing nothing new to the discussion.

4) I think paperscapes and LSB give me tonie vibes. paperscapes posts have been informative while also have shown that he is trying to create a positive town environment. Especially here, a good post to keep people on topic and recenter the debate about vote trading: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303505&currentpage=12#229

LSB, as well, put forth a good vote plan though I disagree with it (I like the free-trade idea better)
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
January 30 2012 02:54 GMT
#524
Back from running. The shot on palmar pretty much confirms him for me.i gave my vote to him but it didnt go through
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
January 30 2012 04:02 GMT
#528
On January 30 2012 12:57 LSB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2012 11:54 chaoser wrote:
Back from running. The shot on palmar pretty much confirms him for me.i gave my vote to him but it didnt go through

Do you know for certain if your vote didn't go through? It is possible that you gave a vote to Palmar and someone gave a vote to you.


I was informed by mod that I didn't trade today and to not miss it tomorrow. I sent in my trade late because I waited till I had everything all written down and figured out before I did it. By then it was too late Sorry =/
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
January 30 2012 23:44 GMT
#680
Wait...wtf...how did day end already? Didn't Night 1 end just last night? I'm confused...I just got back home ;_;
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
January 31 2012 00:07 GMT
#684
Guys...seriously...why did Day end? I'm so confused.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
January 31 2012 00:10 GMT
#685
Forumite Sweden. Jan 29 2012 20:29 (23 hours). Posts 1534 Day 2

It's only been 24 hours...
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
January 31 2012 00:11 GMT
#687
On January 31 2012 09:10 Paperscraps wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2012 09:07 chaoser wrote:
Guys...seriously...why did Day end? I'm so confused.


This is exactly why I wanted to wait a bit before the lynch.

As soon as someone gets majority of the votes they get hammered.


Oh jeez..seriously? I haven't read anything posted today yet...jesus christ...I just got home from classes/work. WTF guys...
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
January 31 2012 00:18 GMT
#690
Alright well, I guess I'm ok with a VE lynch though he wasn't the top person on my scum list...I'mma go cool/eat dinner and then read through the thread then...
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
January 31 2012 18:51 GMT
#710
So first of all, thanks for ending day early guys, if I had been vigi then you would have all just fucked up...Can we allow the full 48 hours next time? Thanks.

Secondly, Townies in my head:

Palmar - Stop being a dick, I've PMed the mods about it. There's aggressive play and then there's dickish play. You're doing the latter.
Paperscape
LSB

Scums in my head:

Dirkzor
Layabout
???

Reading back on day one and taking into account VE's horrible day two claim, it's pretty obvious that VE was probably mafia.
My notes on VE go:
pounched at palmar's probably baiting posts…scummy? Will have to see
weird un-vote of palmar.
This post stands out to me as scummy, will have to see more. "I'm going to be honest - I'm also starting to think Palmar is town, but it's not based on a belief that I think he's acting scummy to test reactions. It could be, but that's not why. I think Palmar is town based almost exclusively on the fact that scummy players like Paperscraps are defending the way he's playing."
Weird votes/unvotes on palamr/paper. Votes but then doesn't ramp pressure, unvotes when pressured himself on votes. Possibly scummy.Ok to lynch him or layabout[see layabout]


They were pretty easy to see just by pure filter, one doesn't even need to really read them in context. layabout's wavering on lynching VE and his lively defense on him makes me very suspicious of him. Extremely scummy.

I am unsure of VE's alignment.

He started supporting the plan and calling you scummyhere (clicky) . He then completely abandoned the plan and his accusations against you because "scum could gain a vote through circle trading" and therefore "circle trading" was bad and you were not scummy for opposing it, i felt that this was a weak reason, (though it turns out not supporting "circle jerking" is probably a much better stance). He then got involved in more discussion about plas and such, then presented a case against paperscraps. He points out several things paperscraps has done that are anti-town and votes for him. He claimed to have not realised how long we had left and apologises. He then unvotes paperscraps for a few reasons:
1) He doesn't think he will convince anyone
2) He thinks that Paperscraps suggesting a no-lynch would be a dumb thing for scum so he is more likely town than he had previously thought.
3) He wants to go back and read more filters..
Then he hammers WBG. He says he sent a vote to LSB.
He claims to have been hit during the night.


This part in particular from layabout's posts is a very very weak defense of VE.

I wrote on Day 1
"3) Aside from them, layabout also does the "write a long post about nothing" and then later on when the vote trading topic had died down a bit, brings it up again while bringing nothing new to the discussion."

and I wish I had written more but the trend so far for layabout has been a noncommital and slight derailment of conversation followed by his sketchy defense of VE. While I do admit that it IS possible he actually does feel this way, it is more likely that his latest posts are a last minute defense of a scummy VE and is, in my opinion, scum.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
January 31 2012 18:59 GMT
#713
Actually, I take back my townie read on LSB. Re-reading through his filter has made me downgrade him to a neutral. I will need to think again about his alignment. I still stand by my assessment of layabout.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
January 31 2012 19:00 GMT
#714
On February 01 2012 03:57 Palmar wrote:
I disagree, I don't think I've been a dick at all. So I'm not going to change a thing.



Doesn't matter what you think. I've pmed the mods about it, it's up to them now. Do whatever you want, it's good play. It's also dickish play and I won't stand for that. Also, I've relooked at LSB's posts and reconsidered but if it's a choice between layabout and LSB, I would choose layabout in a heartbeat.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
January 31 2012 19:03 GMT
#716
Huh? Who is they? layabout and dirkzor? Or do you mean LSB and layabout?

I don't think the latter if that's what you're saying
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
January 31 2012 19:09 GMT
#720
Just because I don't agree with who he thinks is mafia or not is not an indication of if he himself is mafia or not. His votes given to layabout tell me nothing when looked at in context of all the other posts he has made in day 1 of the game. As the game goes on I will obviously re-evaluate but as of now, to me, he is a neutral player leaning towards townie who has different ideas than me of who mafia is and who town is. That's not that big a deal. The same, obviously, can not be said for layabout with his support of VE. Not only have layabout posts in general been unhelpful, but most of them are middle of the road. This added with his support of VE tips him into scum territory for me.

I have respect for players who I think are good but that doesn't mean if they don't agree with me or see things my way that they are immediately scummy. There have been many times that I have disagreed with other good townie players and is to be expected. In my opinion, Layabout on day 1 was less scummy than dirkzor or VE. It was only his posting on day two that pushed him into extremely scummy. So I can understand LSB's justification for giving him a vote.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
January 31 2012 19:20 GMT
#722
His forced vote on prplhz reminds me of VE's forced votes and posts on both you and paperscapes. His defense of his vote was, in my opinion, lacking. He added nothing of substance to the VE lynch posting:

I agree that either Palmar or VE have to die. Or both due to No flip.

I would vote VE now, but I don't want to hammer (my vote won't be the hammer i know) until everyone have had a chance to claim the hit on either one. If no one claims it could still be a scum nightvig. How likely do you find that mafia have a nightvig?

If no one claims the hit I think the jailer should claim. Because if no one claims the hit or the jail we would have lynch both to be sure.


in which he discredits his OWN reason for not voting VE: "but I don't want to hammer (my vote won't be the hammer i know)" and then adds in a weird suggestion about how the jailer should claim.

He then continues to criticize VE with:

lol! That changed your mind? What about the late claim to get hit? Which was equally late. Yet you have been vague up until this post of VE. Just minute before you had yet to make up your mind...


when he himself has been equally noncommital:

VE looks way more scummy then palmar. Why not claim directly after night post? Why wait? Palmar posted instantly and VE have had more then enough time to think it over.

But I still hate being unsure. I'll mindfuck myself until the game ends =(
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
January 31 2012 19:23 GMT
#724
The only post that I like so far is his post on LSB and that one I am currently checking with LSB's posts in context. Aside from that though, he gives off scummy reads to me.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
January 31 2012 19:27 GMT
#727
He then continues to criticize VE with:

lol! That changed your mind? What about the late claim to get hit? Which was equally late. Yet you have been vague up until this post of VE. Just minute before you had yet to make up your mind...


I meant layabout. I'm sorry. I want to expand on this point that this was said during the ending part of the day, and along with his posts on a VE lynch, seem like a distancing act to me. He wanted to distance himself from the rest of his team but was unsure if they could still be saved or not. So he kinda did both.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
January 31 2012 19:30 GMT
#730
On February 01 2012 04:25 Dirkzor wrote:
The reason I did not want to vote was to not give someone else the oppotunity to hammer. I wanted the day to last longer and posted about that later aswell. That post you quoted about me criticizing VE was a post to Lay not VE.
I also can't see why I was non-committal. I said I found VE way mroe scummy then Palmar and would put my vote on him - but didnt due to hammer mechanic.


You yourself stated only that you didn't want to hammer the vote even though your vote wouldn't have hammered. This added reason of "I did not want to vote because I didn't want SOMEONE ELSE to hammer" was not mentioned then and so I can not willingly believe this point since it has only just now been introduced.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
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