• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:51
CEST 10:51
KST 17:51
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall11HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles7[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China10Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL78
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles Server Blocker RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier Small VOD Thread 2.0 Last Minute Live-Report Thread Resource!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Accidental Video Game Porn Archive Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 617 users

Response to Alex, CEO of EG

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
kmpow
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Sweden15 Posts
December 15 2011 11:26 GMT
#1
In response to Alex, CEO of EG's blog post, see http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=295222

Dear Alex

(1)You are the money handler of EG, how could you think that your opinion on the matter is relevant for public display? The opinion expressed here is concerned with money and good relation with those holding money, in this case GomTV and their sponsors. You want puppets, I, as a fan, want games that matters with emotions attached. Not an awkward fight between the players with nothing to gain, the tournament is the defining factor of motivation.

(2)Idra got lucky, skipping up and downs is quite favorable, and has indeed both money and fame attached to it. Best of luck to him and Sen.

(3)A wall of text from the CEO of the buyout team might not be the best idea how to spend the hours you are paid, since the bias of money is showing. Your opinion on business practice should probably be more interesting and commenting on GomTV's actions if one of your players would receive similar treatment and feel a lot more relevant.

On December 15 2011 17:51 EGalex wrote:
the public sentiment seems to be somewhere between 65/35 and 70/30 in disapproval of NaNiwa's action


The number on this site says otherwise in quite clear numbers, a vast majority has expressed an understanding for Naniwa's actions. See http://www.teamliquid.net/poll/index.php
Even though there is room for interpretation, your interpretation is in the category the superlative form of lying. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics

As you explore the history of similar events earlier, such as Idra vs Nerchio, I can only agree that it is not something good. However, in a game of 100% mental and cognitive ability judging that one is not capable of playing should be an option. If the option isn't respected there is, in my opinion, a clear disconnect between the actual game and too much focus on mimicking big sports leagues in a disconnected context.

On December 15 2011 17:51 EGalex wrote:
Scenarios A, B, and C all happen, regularly, in professional sports...


Speaking of the big sports league analogues, why do you do this? they are not the same. Starcraft 2 as an esport has nothing owed to their formats. Esports is different and that is a good thing. Using the event at hand, we have two players playing a pointless game which was not something planned, but something that occurred as a result of previous games, all awesome and breath taking games.

Why is not the big sports league relevant? Firstly, our players in this scenario had 4 potentially important games to play in a relative short period of time. The last, and pointless game, had made no fan pay more money, put in more effort or in anyway held any expectation on fan effort. Big league sports have a VERY different format for their monetary ecosystem, where each match is an event for fans to come to arenas or turn on the TV. Televised commercials are planned months ahead and the arena-based snacks and merchandise revenue is a the monetary factor. This does not apply in this situation, there is NO WAY you can justify an analogue with one game of a big sports league game. No money was lost, the tournament format however became a joke.

On December 15 2011 17:51 EGalex wrote:
Without all parties contributing, the industry cannot produce a quality product for our fans and community


The grudge-match argument. As a continuation on my previous paragraph, the real disappointment is how the absolutely most interesting game, from a Western perspective, became a game with NOTHING at stake. It is GomTV's responsibility to actually give our players something worth fighting for. This is why the match was a joke from the beginning and this is in extension why the majority of TL users feel no offense of the outcome (See poll link above).

The game was NOT a show match, it was an unnecessary game, a sham. The grudge-match argument is a selling point which lost its value before the game was played.

On December 15 2011 17:51 EGalex wrote:
I'm actually surprised that I haven't read more angry posts from disgruntled GOM customers. What NaNiwa did was basically akin to a last-place MLB team, during its final game of the season, intentionally striking out in every at bat. Just imagine what would happen in that situation: fans would ask for their money back; advertising contracts would be violated; and the league would certainly take action against the team and its players - just like GOM did with NaNi - in order to protect its product. 


You are surprised because you express a very superficial view of fans and still, the analogue to a game day at a stadium does not translate.


DISCLAIMER
I do not think NaNiWa's actions were good, and I think he had a disciplinary punishment coming his way. However, I think the judgment from Alex and GomTV passed is out of proportion for this instanced event.

I am of course biased as a NaNiWa fan and I do not judge Alex beyond the text here. The issue at hand is the first time I have felt true disappointment in a Starcraft 2 organization and is the first event which have caused me to feel the need to express my feelings on the a subject. I have a low post count since I have chosen to not involve myself in potentially growing threads, but I have followed the SC2 community and esports since the days of the beta.

Sincerely,
Kim


gl hf :)
Nouar
Profile Joined May 2009
France3270 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 11:46:27
December 15 2011 11:44 GMT
#2
Leniency opens the door to all kinds of abuse, and korean e-sports, historically, already has something against thrown matches.
Even with no money on the line, it was STILL a game I wanted to see.

About the punishment, remember Naniwa never EARNED a code S spot and was going to be awarded one as a gift. It's not exactly the same. He does a huge 'fu' to GOM, then GOM doesn't have to send a big gift to him now do they ?

I don't really like the way you handle Alex's post, he was explaining his pov, and his opinion is actually pretty legit and understandable.

About that poll : 64% disappointed + unacceptable, 36 understandable + justified.
How is 65/35 wrong ?
36% is not a "huge majority expressing their understanding".
NoiR
brachester
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia1786 Posts
December 15 2011 11:44 GMT
#3
it starts becoming hard to find anything on the left side bar that is not related to the GOM-Naniwa incident -_-
Since you have already stated that this is in reponse to his post, why don't you post it in his thread?
I hate all this singing
Liquid`Nazgul
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
22427 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 11:45:15
December 15 2011 11:45 GMT
#4
please don't open new topics in reply to another topic on the same site
Administrator
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 9m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 194
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 20013
PianO 1049
Larva 629
Leta 229
Shinee 108
EffOrt 39
Sharp 31
NaDa 12
Dota 2
ODPixel756
XaKoH 420
XcaliburYe400
League of Legends
JimRising 619
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1812
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor265
Other Games
tarik_tv18739
gofns497
shahzam424
SortOf178
Pyrionflax77
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH355
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2122
League of Legends
• Jankos2785
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1h 9m
RSL Revival
1h 9m
Classic vs Clem
FEL
6h 9m
Elazer vs Spirit
Gerald vs MaNa
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
9h 9m
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Wardi Open
1d 2h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV European League
2 days
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
HSC XXVII
NC Random Cup

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.