• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:33
CET 19:33
KST 03:33
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool1Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win22026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains18
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw? Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server
Tourneys
2026 KungFu Cup Announcement [GSL CK] #2: Team Classic vs. Team Solar [GSL CK] #1: Team Maru vs. Team herO RSL Season 4 announced for March-April PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death Mutation # 515 Together Forever
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Gypsy to Korea BW General Discussion BSL 22 Map Contest — Submissions OPEN to March 10
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] Open Qualifiers & Ladder Tours IPSL Spring 2026 is here! ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
FTM 2019 new update 24.2.2
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Mexico's Drug War Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2397 users

[H] Need with with silver/gold ZvP Vs FFE

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Monkeyballs25
Profile Joined October 2010
531 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-03 20:46:47
October 03 2011 20:34 GMT
#1
I'm just completely at a loss at this point. I haven't won against a competent FFE in ages. Either I try to crack them with a roach all-in and fail miserably, I get killed by their 2 base deathball, or I hold off the deathball but can't stop them taking a 3rd and can't get a good engage on their army.

http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/(P)Hubtscheff_vs_(Z)Tamerlane/14156

8:00/9:00 or so
In this game I atleast avoided my old mistake of stopping drones at 25 and trying to crack his defence. But I still slowed my droning rate after seeing that core and 4 gates going up with my overlord. I guess I should have kept going a bit longer, but I still find it hard to judge how much of a force he's built up.
19:00 I've actually got a maxed army and a 40 food lead but I've no idea how to engage protoss, if I should engage him at all.
From then on he takes his 3rd and I keep throwing roach or roach/corrupter armies at him with little success.
So apart from general replay analysis
-how do I better judge when to stop droning vs FFE?
-should I attack as soon as I'm maxed or get some upgrades first?
-how should I have engaged protoss where his army was at 19:50? IE with the colossi at the cliff east of the Watchtower right beside where he ends up getting his 3rd.
-any other tips would be appreciated. I know I should be stockpiling my larvae more so I can remax faster but its not much use if I keep throwing armies away like that.

Edit : If a mod could fix the thread title typo that'd be great. Don't post right after a 6 game losing streak I guess.
Orangu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada198 Posts
October 04 2011 19:06 GMT
#2
Hey, so couple things i noticed. the main one is you need to work on your macro, specifically injecting. you let your queen get over 25 energy after the very first inject, that is absolutely terribly because it slows everything down, you were floating money and had less food than you should have only 5 mins into the game. towards the end you were floating 5k like 2k and all your queens had full energy, make macro hatches if you need to but make sure your hitting those injects, Z hinges on it.

Near the beginning you scouted the FFE and still got about 10 lings, you only need 2 or 4 rest should have been drones, might not seem like much but those 3 drones that early does make a difference, especially when those lings are literally not doing anything for another several minutes.

You scouted the gateways and made an army which is good, although you actually didn't need to as early as you did since his WG wasn't even finished yet, was prob a mistake on his part to start WG so late so not a big deal but something to keep in mind.

After this tho you didn't scout again for another 5 minutes. If you see a bunch of gates, and he doesn't push out within a min or 2 then you need to rescout because it means he might have tech switched, like the P did in this game.

You scouted at about 7-8 mins, assuming you re scout at about 10, you would have had 9 minutes to yourself, as he didn't leave his base until 19 mins into the game. You need to be macroing and teching during that time. Then once he does leave you essentially need to either have hive tech up or about to get up, BL's are usually the best bet at least at first, or to continually exchange lair tech armies with the P and try and work em down. Against 3+ colo you need about 10 corruptors and scale up to like 16 if he gets like 5+ colo. i find rest roach infestor ling to be good and add on hydras once colo are killed. Trading armys tho means you need to keep up on larvae injects and macro hatches cause you need to be continously remaxing during every fight.

AS to engagements, corruptors should be put over cliffs or high grounds and try to pick at the sides of the colo lines, while your main army essentially dances around colo range, you are mainly trying to protect your corruptors so they can kill the colo so the rest of your army can kill his. You main army is going to get destroyed while you kill the colo, but then after the remax without his colo you can then start to win the fights.

Hope some of this helps.
THESE PRETZELS ARE MAKING ME THIRSTY!
Monkeyballs25
Profile Joined October 2010
531 Posts
October 04 2011 19:18 GMT
#3
Very helpful, thank you. I'll probably have the hardest time getting the macro improvements in but I'll see what I can do.
So, scout again with an overseer if he turtles in his base too long just to check what he's doing, sound's good. I remember I didn't really have enough corruptors, so basically I should bring 3 per colossus. I also didn't know how to use them right, guess I'll need them on a seperate control group next time I'll be quite honest in saying I doubt I'll be able to manage infestors+corruptors, but I'll definitely try and mix in some lings.
If I can do a bit better on the engagements and have better lategame injects hopefully I can wear him down if this comes up again. I did have the mineral income to sustain it I think.
GAFFELTRUCK
Profile Joined April 2011
13 Posts
November 21 2011 16:18 GMT
#4
A one base 7-roach is very hard to hold off when FFE, Get speed for lings and if your attack doesn't kill you opponent, he'll be crippled for a long time focus down the cybercore as by the time you arrive at his base warpgate should still be researching. If there is a sweetspot for your roaches to kill the nexus. You might also be able to snipe the forge .
After this attack the game is yours to win, take a second and a third (assuming your roach-ling didn't end the game) tech to lair and just get a suitable army
EnderSword
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada669 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-22 18:21:35
November 22 2011 18:20 GMT
#5
Hello,

I did a little video analysis on this game.

I think the largest thing centers around just expanding continuously and trying to engage the Turtle more wisely.



EnderSword Bronze/Silver/Gold Analysis Channel
Bronze/Silver/Gold level Guides - www.youtube.com/user/EnderSword
knp
Profile Joined November 2011
United States3 Posts
November 23 2011 01:38 GMT
#6
I've been playing Super Mario Bros for years. All you need to do to defeat the turtle is jump on it's shell, then kick it when its down. They always go flying out of the game without a word.

It may require some decent micro, but it has great effect. Timing is everything.

Watch these replays of The Attack Hatch:
http://thegamespage.com/staff/knp/sc2replays/

Don't be complacent Protoss players.
http://www.thegamespage.com/staff/knp/sc2replays/
EnderSword
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada669 Posts
November 23 2011 15:19 GMT
#7
Bounce on their Turtle shell over and over too for infinite 1Ups!

But ya, take advantage of the fact that the turtle can't really move. Don't fully engage, just hit the shell a bit
Bronze/Silver/Gold level Guides - www.youtube.com/user/EnderSword
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 28m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
elazer 249
TKL 180
UpATreeSC 163
ProTech122
RushiSC 79
BRAT_OK 58
OGKoka 29
MindelVK 15
Codebar 10
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 19575
Calm 3423
EffOrt 548
Mini 547
Soma 260
Shuttle 214
Dewaltoss 148
actioN 143
Rush 112
zelot 25
[ Show more ]
Rock 19
Hm[arnc] 19
GoRush 17
IntoTheRainbow 14
soO 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 11
NaDa 9
Dota 2
qojqva3613
canceldota90
League of Legends
JimRising 429
Counter-Strike
fl0m4859
pashabiceps1385
byalli256
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King42
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor138
Other Games
Grubby1910
FrodaN1017
ceh9453
B2W.Neo440
Beastyqt280
Fuzer 147
KnowMe134
ArmadaUGS131
Trikslyr81
QueenE43
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream203
Other Games
BasetradeTV95
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 5
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 27
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota282
League of Legends
• TFBlade556
• Shiphtur379
Other Games
• imaqtpie891
• WagamamaTV279
Upcoming Events
OSC
5h 28m
The PondCast
15h 28m
KCM Race Survival
15h 28m
WardiTV Team League
17h 28m
OSC
18h 28m
Replay Cast
1d 5h
KCM Race Survival
1d 15h
WardiTV Team League
1d 17h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Maru vs Zoun
Cure vs ByuN
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
herO vs MaxPax
Rogue vs TriGGeR
BSL
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Sharp vs Scan
Rain vs Mong
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Soulkey vs Ample
JyJ vs sSak
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
hero vs YSC
Larva vs Shine
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-16
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
NationLESS Cup
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.