EPTCan I go on a killing spree?
Real Time Mafia
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
Can I go on a killing spree? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
By giving blues free-reign to kill lurkers, or at least having the threat of being shot if you're on the lurker list, most people should be compelled to contribute and not appear on the list. Do people agree blues should use their extra lurker KP, or no? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 28 2011 12:06 Hyaach wrote: Since every action is time based, I'm against blues using the KP as and when they like. Its more likely to hit a townie early in the game counting the ratio. But then again who doesn't like killing. Well, the lurker list doesn't come into effect until the next day cycle. Also, blues can use their KP at their own discretion for which lurker to hit, and can choose to save it for Day 3 and hit a repeat offender. The whole point is to have the threat of dying looming over your head, so that you are forced to post and contribute in order to not show up on the lurker list. If we told blues they can't shoot lurkers, then lurkers would just lurk. This way, they're forced to actually say something. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 28 2011 12:20 youngminii wrote: Do not do this, Vig you should be targeting who they feel is scum, not anyone that is spammy. First off, scum are not stupid, they won't be spamming up the thread for the sake of spamming the thread. Second, by saying "just shoot anyone that is cluttering up the thread with nonsense" in the thread will obviously signal scum to be very delicate and careful with their posting. FoS on you for this, it's a very flawed plan, everyone knows what a lurker is and what's not, if someone appears to be spammy and their playstyle lines up with scum then go ahead and shoot them but as soon as you start directing who the Vig should hit publically is when mafia get an advantage. Also, since lurking is defined by third party judgement, there's a chance that Spammers will also show up on the lurker list, due to quality of posts and actual word count. Shoot who you think is scummy, not who you think is worthless. -_- | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 28 2011 13:41 Varpulis wrote: The concept here is that if the mafia have killed off the townies on the skilled veteran list and are now killing moderately skilled and semi-experienced players, the remainder of the skilled veterans are likely mafia. Unfortunately, now that he's announced it in the thread, it's all WifoM. This is like a zodiac list, but without the good parts. Find mafia through analysis, not coincidence. I'd add LSB to any list as well, I might be wrong, but he seems like one of the better players here, and one I'm more familiar with (compared to ~OpZ~ and YM). Also, I don't think it helps mafia very much, as they are likely to have at least one "veteran" player on their team already, and thus should know most of the other vets already. Even then, it's not hard to search someone's name and see how many games they've played. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
First thing's first: On June 28 2011 17:52 Palmar wrote: So, I did out, I still got sent a role, so I guess RoL decided I was in. I hate to disappoint but that means I'm more alive than you'd like. Here are my thoughts so far on the game. Anyone encouraging vigis to take care with their shots is insane. Just go nuts and shoot whoever you like. This means that some people will be really angry with you, but then we just hang those people for mafia. Also, the zodiac or vet lists are completely useless in my opinion. That's like inviting the mafia to contribute without actually contributing. If you feel like making lists you should rather be doing something like listing up the lurkers. Then you're actually useful before we hang you. I'm still catching up, you guys spammed 10 pages while I slept. On June 28 2011 22:10 Palmar wrote: only problem with lynching sinani206 is that the last game I played with him his combo was: a) post fluff, lists and useless shit b) claim veteran c) get lynched. It's hard to analyse people who we know act super scummy as town anyway. But sure, he's the best idea so far, let's bandwagon this thing. While reading, these posts looked pretty bad (Read: Scummy) to me. YM already addressed this, and tried to explain it away as being Palmar's normal town play. I'll accept the explanation for now, but Palmar, I want you to know I've got my eye on you. I'd also like to hear more from you, to see if I can form a better opinion. Right now, most of your posts are just talking about lurkers, and not about players, so: Who's your number 1 scum read right now? Who do you think needs to contribute more to town (Either in terms of activity or content)? _________________________________________________________________________________ So, about GM. I'm getting the feeling he's town right now. He's pushing forward discussion, and trying to keep town focused. I'll think he's scum as soon as he starts pushing forward anti-town ideas or going after bad lynch targets. That said, I'd also like to see more of your (GM's) thoughts on players, and less on game set-up and thread environment. Who do you think is a good candidate for being scum right now? If you don't have a strong read, when can I get one? It's easier to analyze people based off of their opinions on players, than game mechanics. Game mechanics usually have an objective best way to play, like good environment, stopping lurking, etc. that just lets mafia players pander to town by discussing it. Forming opinions on players however, is where the limited information of the game comes in, and it's easier to judge someone's intents. (IMO) So, GM's discussion of mechanics and how to play seem pro-town, but until he starts talking about players, it won't be a super strong read from me. (I also love parentheses apparently) | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
For example, if I hadn't read further into the thread after Palmar's posts, I wouldn't have seen what YM said, and would have begun waging a bloody crusade against him. Stuff like this is important to see, and I personally don't think you should be trying to make analysis or contribute without all the information available to you, and without knowing what's been addressed or not already. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 29 2011 12:33 Lanaia wrote: I've reread this thread and have made my decision. Between Hiro and Drazerk, I feel Drazerk is less valuable to the town. I mean this in that we should lynch him over Hiro. Of course, everything I feel has already been said by others because they were obviously faster than me. I figured I'd inform you in this thread. I'm pretty sure I said it before, but let me state it again, explicitly: Don't lynch who you think is more useless, lynch who you think is scummier If you think Drazerk is scummier, then by all means carry on, but if you think Hiro might be scummier, but Drazerk is more useless, then you should reconsider. Of course, I don't know your full thought process, but from what you wrote, it looks like you settled on two people and just picked the one contributing less. On a side note, I'm taking a look at Drazerk, especially with gems like this: On June 29 2011 09:09 Drazerk wrote: May I suggest you read simple mini mafia 4 where as town I give my self up to be lynched every day? "Hi, remember that thing I did in that other game when I was town, well I'm doing it again, so I must be town, right?  "I'm not sure if he's scum or bad town at this point though, so I'm going to wait a little before jumping on a bandwagon, and go through his posts in other games, maybe. Then: + Show Spoiler + On June 29 2011 12:58 Palmar wrote: Whatever, if you guys insist on clearing people on STUFF THAT ISN'T IN THE GAME, I'm going to do the same. Syllo popped on IRC at some point today and asked "does GF always submit mafia kills when he is still alive?". This doesn't paint him scum, again, generally I'd assume the guy could ask his scum team, but I'm not eating up some bullshit excuse that he's probably blue. he has one stupid out-of-the-game thing going for him, and one against him. I'd rather that NEITHER were brought up as an issue, but since someone is using that to defend him, I'm going to use that to accuse him. Pretty sure you can't use something someone said outside the thread, as there aren't PMs allowed in this game. I don't even know why he's asking questions in a public irc, and not just PMing the host or asking here. -_- Also: GGQ, why are you bringing up lists again, and at this point in time, when we're done talking about them, and then using that list that isn't even thorough/complete compared to the one GM made? On June 29 2011 06:34 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I'd like to ask everyone to read through the entirety of the thread before they start posting, especially if what they have to say is only relevant to a past discussion. This will stop people bringing up things that the rest of town has mostly stopped talking about, and restarting a useless discussion. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 29 2011 13:26 Lanaia wrote: I do find him scummier than Hiro, and as they were the two people I had in mind that I wanted to lynch, I chose him as well. I could have sworn I'd written that into my post announcing it. Apparently I'm not fully here. I'm sincerely hoping that exchange on IRC palmar spoke of did not actually happen as it sounds kind of ridiculous and is it not technically against the rules as well? It feels unsettling but I want to see what Syllo says about this claim Palmar's made (And to see if they're both on the same page about it). In regards to Wiggles quoting Wiggles, I agree completely. It really is a pain when people read maybe halfway through and THEN start posting without finishing. Things tend to change in relevancy with each passing page. Ok, that's fine then. It's just that I always see townies posting "Oh, well this guy is useless so let's just lynch him". It's normally not a good idea to do so, especially if you think he's just useless, as opposed to say, actually scummy. However, it looks like you actually voted for the person you find scummier, as opposed to just the more useless, so that makes me happy. :p | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 29 2011 13:40 sinani206 wrote: Stop derailing the thread with the IRC nonsense. You're scaring others (like me) from posting. What do you mean? People just posted saying that you can't use something someone said outside the game (Not meta), as evidence for anything. The discussion hasn't been derailed, nobody's talking about it, just a couple people said to cut it out. I also don't get what you mean where you say it's scaring people from posting. How do you know others are scared, and why should people saying not to do something borderline breaking the roles impede your posting in any way? If you want to post, post. There's no reason to ever be scared of posting your thoughts, especially as a townie. This post just looks like an excuse to not post and lurk. If you're scum, it's not working, and if you're town, you shouldn't get intimidated into not posting. Lurking is never the way to go... | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
He not only martyred, but he martyred, and then about three posts later in the thread, he pointed out how he did the same thing as town. At first I though he might have been terrible town, but the fact that he explicitly states that he does the same thing as a townie looks scummy as all hell to me. Just a last ditch response to pressure that he reacted badly to, in my eyes. Ad on his weird flopping with GM and his attack on Sinani, and that's good enough for me to lynch on. ##Vote: Drazerk Also, could someone explain the case on visc to me better? I'm not too too familiar with his play in other games, but it looks like the case on him is: 1. Isn't playing to his town meta 2. Doesn't contribute I don't think that's enough for me to be comfortable lynching on, because looks a lot like he's just lazy. How does he normally act that makes this such a jarring change? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 30 2011 05:16 ~OpZ~ wrote: Someone else had said that he matrys every game he is town before hand he said it himself iirc. You should seriously look into that if thats a primary reason of yours for voting him. Just saying. As far as I can see, he was the first one to mention it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=237124¤tpage=24 What reason does a townie have for martyring himself with 30 hours left in the lynch and then pointing out a specific game where he did the same thing as town? That looks like the bad self defense of a nooby scum. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
What do you think of Drazerk's martyring posts? I might be willing to consider changing my vote, but I can't get past how he makes a post giving up and then points us to a game where he dd the same thing as town. What's your take? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 30 2011 06:36 GMarshal wrote: I generally ignore meta, and pointing to the metagame is something I've seen both new and old players do, both as scum and town. Its bad play, but it doesn't tilt the balance for me either way, as we've said, bad play =/= mafia. Is it a determining factor for you? I understand what about it makes it suspicious, but in my experience its not something only mafia or only town do, so I'm not getting a huge read based on it. Well, it looked like a pretty scummy thing to me when I looked at it again. At first, I thought it might've been bad town play (I have a post somewhere saying that) or scummy, but decided on it as being scummy after a while. I'm thinking I might need to re-evaluate though, as both you and ~OpZ~ have expressed doubts about it being a big deal. To be honest, it was pretty much the thing that pushed me over to thinking he was scum, as he blatantly pointed out that he did it as town. Maybe I just haven't seen enough people be self-referential to meta in a bad way like that yet. =/ Time to think, let me know if you have anything to add to what you said. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
How sure are you that Draz's martyring and self-referencing are a null-tell, and how strong is your read on sinani? Curious. :p | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
I was pretty sure that Drazerk was likely to be red, until GM's posts made me start to doubt that his martyring was a strong tell. Don't know if that was intentional or not, but I'll just stick with my original vote on Drazerk now that visc has claimed DT. If he flips town, we just gun down Visc right after the flip. ~OpZ~ might be a good check for a detective too, as I remember him asking me to reconsider my Drazerk vote. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 30 2011 12:01 ~OpZ~ wrote: Oh yea, Wiggles, lemme point this out, cuz i forgot I posted that. If you care to go look at that, TAA's post seemingly breadcrumbs DT CHECK DRAZERK....I pointed it out....So I dunno guy, but I don't feel I was really defending him. Yeah, maybe not then. I thought that was a joke more than trying to actually find breadcrumbs though, so I disregarded it. Still think you'd be worth a DT check, as you weren't super active on Day 1, and I find you hard to read at least. :p | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 30 2011 13:37 sandroba wrote: Well, if these people are in the lurker list vigs will use up their lurker shot. Except there is no lurker list yet, so all shots should be normal. I'm pretty sure you have to differentiate when you send it in, because you can still use normal bullets on lurkers, but can't use lurker bullets on active people. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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