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- Get to opponents base, see NOTHING
- Drop an extra gate in case of proxy zealots, scout base for cannon rush
- See THIS. That's a cannon warping in obviously.
![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/devil_monkey471/wtf-1.png)
How is it possible for me to EVER hold this off?!?! I immediately reacted, to my knowledge, in the proper way, and I had no chance to even get a zealot out or anything. I realize that for a fraction of a second my scouting probe saw his, but I didn't notice it considering it was still IN MY BASE at the time. I also know that he got lucky in blind scouting me. Regardless, that cant be the ONLY thing going for me. What if I had scouted north first? I'd have had no idea that anything was even wrong. The proxy didnt have to be IN my base either, if it was in the natural or down by the third it would have been just as devastating. I have no idea how you are supposed to respond to proxy/cheese on a map so huge that their cheese hits before you can even have had a chance to get to their base.
I hate this game sometimes...
http://sc2rep.com/replays/(P)dslyecix_vs_(P)ReVenGe__sc2rep_com_20110616/9906
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If you watch your opponents perspective it looks to me like he is map hacking. First off he goes right to your base off the start... Say thats luck... Then he dodges your probe at just about the perfect time... That still didn't look to suspicious, but once he start warping in buildings etc, he is looking at your base in the fog several times to check what you have when he clearly doesn't have vision of u... The game was either extremely lucky cheese or map hacker... IMO
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ya i think angrypanda's right..unfortunately
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Well first off its just horrible luck. And as the guy above me says he may be maphacking.
However, things you could have improved:
1. You see nothing in his base, then go back for a second scout, that lost you precious seconds.
2. Scout your base with two probes, and throw up a forge before a second gate until you know, cannons hold both 2 gate proxy and cannon rush if used right.
3. Your positioning lost you this game, if you gate was closer to your nexus, you could have gotten zealots/cannons out.
Pretty much though you just got unlucky with the way the positions went. (or he was a maphacker)
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Blatant maphacking from his side...
Add him to the TL Hacker Database, we don't need this kind of crap to stay on Battle.Net any longer.
Oh, and report him too please  .
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Yeah that's a map hacker. Anyways:
You need a forge. You can't stop a cannon rush without your own cannons.
I recommend keeping your early buildings tight to your nexus. This allows you to pull probes for proxy zealots, and also reduces the area you need to defend from cannon rushes.
Other than that, well, it all depends how much you want to pay to prevent cheese. If you want to be really paranoid, scout your base at 9 before moving out, then scout it again shortly after. Generally in PvP, seeing nothing in their base is simply too late.
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Checked out the replay - this dude didn't get lucky, he's maphacking. Not only does he look into your base through the fog multiple times, but he actually tries to dodge your scouting probe when he sees it (through the fog) coming at his probe. Watch the replay from his perspective and there's no doubt about it.
Besides the maphacking which allowed him to do this on a huge 4 player map (which makes it significantly harder to defend), the best response, imo, is:
-stop probe production
-drop a forge asap
-build at least one cannon next to your mineral line
You should be building your first pylon and gateway next to your nexus in pvp, and this is one of the main reasons why. After you get a cannon up, you have an eco lead and it's usually an easy win.
I'd submit this replay to Blizzard too.
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First of all change thread name i think this is a hacker (and a big fail cheese).
things of improvment use 2 probes 1 to spot base one to scout youre own (naniwa style)
second and best tip i can give is sim city build youre first pylon next to nexus and wall youreself in for a bitt he invested 150 forge 300 (2 cannons) 1 gateway.
the only thing threatening is the zealot if you scout nothign at his put down a forge at yours ( with good sim city) and just wait and tech to stalkers (you do need nice stutter micro tough).
imo you pulled a idra on yourself by leaving.
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Okay, thanks for the tips beyond the map hacking (which I never even thought of TBH). I usually build away from my nexus towards any openings to open up my vision and hopefully catch any probes that try to sneak by. I generally have decent minimap awareness.
I'll try these tips from now on, so thanks for that everyone. Also I will report this in the number of places I know of.
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watch how he looks at your main into the "fog of war" from his perspective. I think he even moves his little probe around yours as he sees it coming. I bet this guy got to diamond on the map hack+cheese combo alone.
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Why hello replay - Gonna agree with everyone else that you probably have a maphacker on your hands. That said, based on what you saw in the game:
1 - When you see nothing in his base = FREAK OUT RIGHT AWAY.
Not only did you see nothing in his base, you saw no probes being built! (Except you didn't see, because you weren't looking at your scout. But even then, no pylons? Tsk tsk. React now!)
Drop a forge once you see no pylons in his base. You delayed this reaction for a long time, and dropped a gate instead of a forge (not unreasonable, but the forge is probably better. It finishes faster and more reliably holds off both forms of proxy cheese.) When you do build the cannon, simcity it if its vs proxy gates, put it in the direction of his cannons if it's a cannon rush. At this point you're ahead in... pretty much everything except possibly unit count. (tech, econ for certain though)
If you HAD reacted appropriately, you'd be cutting probes at 13 (he cut them at 10) and put your forge down 2-3 seconds after he puts his forge down (assuming you put it down right at 150 mins, which you should!) Then, you just drop a cannon and he can no longer build a cannon in range of it, this protects your gateway (even though your gateway is too far away from your nexus imo)
2 - You could choose to do some "naniwa scouting" in your standard play - ever see how naniwa (and others) so often scouts his own base real quick with his first probe? Sure, his scout gets to his enemy base a bit late, but gl getting cheese past him like this. You don't need to use a seperate scout for this, but you could.
3 - basically any cheese would work against you if you had to do what you do with your scout that game. I could have 6pooled you and since you don't react, it works. Yes, he maphacked, but solid play doesn't rely on going unscouted. Play more solid!
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I think he is map hacking, but if you were paying full attention to your scouting probe you would have seen is probe just for a split second, then he dodged you. Also you reached his base at 1:40 and you werent paying attention to your probe fully so it kept going to the next queued up base. If you saw that at 1:45 he had absolutely nothing that means you have to scout both your base and his entire base ASAP, it took you a long time to do that. When you see nothing, cancel the assimilator and make a forge rather than a 2nd gateway.
Even though you need to make sure whether or not he is proxying by checking his ENTIRE base, its still best to scout both your and his base at the same time just to be safe. Instead at 2:45, a whole minute later you saw his buildings in your base and from there it was too late to react.
You probably could have prevented this, but your opponent was most likely map hacking.
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EPT
