• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:58
CEST 09:58
KST 16:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists9[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy21
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers5Maestros of the Game 2 announced22026 GSL Tour plans announced4Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail0MaNa leaves Team Liquid18
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists 2026 GSL Tour plans announced Maestros of the Game 2 announced Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail MaNa leaves Team Liquid
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Data needed A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone [ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro16 Group B [ASL21] Ro16 Group A [ASL21] Ro24 Group F [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Reappraising The Situation T…
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2001 users

[H] Diamond PvP cheese

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
dslyecix
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada37 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 19:25:54
June 16 2011 18:59 GMT
#1
- Get to opponents base, see NOTHING
- Drop an extra gate in case of proxy zealots, scout base for cannon rush
- See THIS. That's a cannon warping in obviously.

[image loading]

How is it possible for me to EVER hold this off?!?! I immediately reacted, to my knowledge, in the proper way, and I had no chance to even get a zealot out or anything. I realize that for a fraction of a second my scouting probe saw his, but I didn't notice it considering it was still IN MY BASE at the time. I also know that he got lucky in blind scouting me. Regardless, that cant be the ONLY thing going for me. What if I had scouted north first? I'd have had no idea that anything was even wrong. The proxy didnt have to be IN my base either, if it was in the natural or down by the third it would have been just as devastating. I have no idea how you are supposed to respond to proxy/cheese on a map so huge that their cheese hits before you can even have had a chance to get to their base.

I hate this game sometimes...

http://sc2rep.com/replays/(P)dslyecix_vs_(P)ReVenGe__sc2rep_com_20110616/9906
AngryPanda
Profile Joined April 2010
21 Posts
June 16 2011 19:06 GMT
#2
If you watch your opponents perspective it looks to me like he is map hacking. First off he goes right to your base off the start... Say thats luck... Then he dodges your probe at just about the perfect time... That still didn't look to suspicious, but once he start warping in buildings etc, he is looking at your base in the fog several times to check what you have when he clearly doesn't have vision of u... The game was either extremely lucky cheese or map hacker... IMO
Never underestimate the power of wandering where you are most interested.
AttiiMasteR
Profile Joined April 2011
Austria60 Posts
June 16 2011 19:11 GMT
#3
ya i think angrypanda's right..unfortunately
To drone or not NOT to drone, that's the question.
ntvarify
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States331 Posts
June 16 2011 19:11 GMT
#4
Well first off its just horrible luck. And as the guy above me says he may be maphacking.
However, things you could have improved:
1. You see nothing in his base, then go back for a second scout, that lost you precious seconds.
2. Scout your base with two probes, and throw up a forge before a second gate until you know, cannons hold both 2 gate proxy and cannon rush if used right.
3. Your positioning lost you this game, if you gate was closer to your nexus, you could have gotten zealots/cannons out.
Pretty much though you just got unlucky with the way the positions went. (or he was a maphacker)
Ahelvin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
France1866 Posts
June 16 2011 19:12 GMT
#5
Blatant maphacking from his side...

Add him to the TL Hacker Database, we don't need this kind of crap to stay on Battle.Net any longer.

Oh, and report him too please .
Join the Liquipedia Zerg Project ! PM me for more information :).
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
June 16 2011 19:12 GMT
#6
Yeah that's a map hacker. Anyways:

You need a forge. You can't stop a cannon rush without your own cannons.
I recommend keeping your early buildings tight to your nexus. This allows you to pull probes for proxy zealots, and also reduces the area you need to defend from cannon rushes.

Other than that, well, it all depends how much you want to pay to prevent cheese. If you want to be really paranoid, scout your base at 9 before moving out, then scout it again shortly after. Generally in PvP, seeing nothing in their base is simply too late.
VvyzZ
Profile Joined December 2010
United States26 Posts
June 16 2011 19:15 GMT
#7
Checked out the replay - this dude didn't get lucky, he's maphacking. Not only does he look into your base through the fog multiple times, but he actually tries to dodge your scouting probe when he sees it (through the fog) coming at his probe. Watch the replay from his perspective and there's no doubt about it.

Besides the maphacking which allowed him to do this on a huge 4 player map (which makes it significantly harder to defend), the best response, imo, is:

-stop probe production
-drop a forge asap
-build at least one cannon next to your mineral line

You should be building your first pylon and gateway next to your nexus in pvp, and this is one of the main reasons why. After you get a cannon up, you have an eco lead and it's usually an easy win.

I'd submit this replay to Blizzard too.
Shadowcloak
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands194 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 19:17:30
June 16 2011 19:16 GMT
#8
First of all change thread name i think this is a hacker (and a big fail cheese).

things of improvment use 2 probes 1 to spot base one to scout youre own (naniwa style)
second and best tip i can give is sim city build youre first pylon next to nexus and wall youreself in for a bitt he invested 150 forge 300 (2 cannons) 1 gateway.
the only thing threatening is the zealot if you scout nothign at his put down a forge at yours ( with good sim city) and just wait and tech to stalkers (you do need nice stutter micro tough).

imo you pulled a idra on yourself by leaving.


¯\_(ツ)_/¯ SUPP SON
dslyecix
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada37 Posts
June 16 2011 19:25 GMT
#9
Okay, thanks for the tips beyond the map hacking (which I never even thought of TBH). I usually build away from my nexus towards any openings to open up my vision and hopefully catch any probes that try to sneak by. I generally have decent minimap awareness.

I'll try these tips from now on, so thanks for that everyone. Also I will report this in the number of places I know of.
nstiver
Profile Joined June 2011
United States9 Posts
June 16 2011 19:31 GMT
#10
watch how he looks at your main into the "fog of war" from his perspective. I think he even moves his little probe around yours as he sees it coming. I bet this guy got to diamond on the map hack+cheese combo alone.
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 19:44:46
June 16 2011 19:42 GMT
#11
Why hello replay - Gonna agree with everyone else that you probably have a maphacker on your hands. That said, based on what you saw in the game:

1 - When you see nothing in his base = FREAK OUT RIGHT AWAY.
Not only did you see nothing in his base, you saw no probes being built! (Except you didn't see, because you weren't looking at your scout. But even then, no pylons? Tsk tsk. React now!)

Drop a forge once you see no pylons in his base. You delayed this reaction for a long time, and dropped a gate instead of a forge (not unreasonable, but the forge is probably better. It finishes faster and more reliably holds off both forms of proxy cheese.) When you do build the cannon, simcity it if its vs proxy gates, put it in the direction of his cannons if it's a cannon rush. At this point you're ahead in... pretty much everything except possibly unit count. (tech, econ for certain though)

If you HAD reacted appropriately, you'd be cutting probes at 13 (he cut them at 10) and put your forge down 2-3 seconds after he puts his forge down (assuming you put it down right at 150 mins, which you should!) Then, you just drop a cannon and he can no longer build a cannon in range of it, this protects your gateway (even though your gateway is too far away from your nexus imo)

2 - You could choose to do some "naniwa scouting" in your standard play - ever see how naniwa (and others) so often scouts his own base real quick with his first probe? Sure, his scout gets to his enemy base a bit late, but gl getting cheese past him like this. You don't need to use a seperate scout for this, but you could.

3 - basically any cheese would work against you if you had to do what you do with your scout that game. I could have 6pooled you and since you don't react, it works. Yes, he maphacked, but solid play doesn't rely on going unscouted. Play more solid!
chaopow
Profile Joined March 2011
United States556 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 19:50:45
June 16 2011 19:50 GMT
#12
I think he is map hacking, but if you were paying full attention to your scouting probe you would have seen is probe just for a split second, then he dodged you. Also you reached his base at 1:40 and you werent paying attention to your probe fully so it kept going to the next queued up base. If you saw that at 1:45 he had absolutely nothing that means you have to scout both your base and his entire base ASAP, it took you a long time to do that. When you see nothing, cancel the assimilator and make a forge rather than a 2nd gateway.

Even though you need to make sure whether or not he is proxying by checking his ENTIRE base, its still best to scout both your and his base at the same time just to be safe. Instead at 2:45, a whole minute later you saw his buildings in your base and from there it was too late to react.

You probably could have prevented this, but your opponent was most likely map hacking.
Soowoo AD.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 2m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Tasteless 316
actioN 169
Zeus 128
Leta 83
PianO 65
Hm[arnc] 48
soO 30
NotJumperer 17
Bale 11
Sacsri 5
Dota 2
XcaliburYe104
febbydoto12
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1133
shoxiejesuss481
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0356
Other Games
summit1g8179
ceh9376
PiGStarcraft174
Mew2King88
-ZergGirl69
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick405
BasetradeTV285
Counter-Strike
PGL162
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt662
• Jankos220
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
1h 2m
Kung Fu Cup
4h 2m
Replay Cast
16h 2m
The PondCast
1d 2h
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
1d 3h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 16h
Escore
2 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
2 days
OSC
2 days
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
3 days
IPSL
3 days
WolFix vs nOmaD
dxtr13 vs Razz
BSL
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
4 days
Ladder Legends
4 days
BSL
4 days
IPSL
4 days
JDConan vs TBD
Aegong vs rasowy
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Bisu vs Ample
Jaedong vs Flash
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Barracks vs Leta
Royal vs Light
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-13
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.