• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:50
CET 11:50
KST 19:50
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview12Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 26-Feb 1): herO, Clem, ByuN, Classic win2RSL Season 4 announced for March-April6Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft 2 Not at the Esports World Cup 2026 Weekly Cups (Jan 26-Feb 1): herO, Clem, ByuN, Classic win HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued
Tourneys
https://www.facebook.com/Official.GlycoFree/ PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) HomeStory Cup 28 StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) RSL Season 4 announced for March-April
Strategy
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Can someone share very abbreviated BW cliffnotes? [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Liquipedia.net NEEDS editors for Brood War BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Path of Exile Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Play, Watch, Drink: Esports …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2514 users

[H] Diamond PvP cheese

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
dslyecix
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada37 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 19:25:54
June 16 2011 18:59 GMT
#1
- Get to opponents base, see NOTHING
- Drop an extra gate in case of proxy zealots, scout base for cannon rush
- See THIS. That's a cannon warping in obviously.

[image loading]

How is it possible for me to EVER hold this off?!?! I immediately reacted, to my knowledge, in the proper way, and I had no chance to even get a zealot out or anything. I realize that for a fraction of a second my scouting probe saw his, but I didn't notice it considering it was still IN MY BASE at the time. I also know that he got lucky in blind scouting me. Regardless, that cant be the ONLY thing going for me. What if I had scouted north first? I'd have had no idea that anything was even wrong. The proxy didnt have to be IN my base either, if it was in the natural or down by the third it would have been just as devastating. I have no idea how you are supposed to respond to proxy/cheese on a map so huge that their cheese hits before you can even have had a chance to get to their base.

I hate this game sometimes...

http://sc2rep.com/replays/(P)dslyecix_vs_(P)ReVenGe__sc2rep_com_20110616/9906
AngryPanda
Profile Joined April 2010
21 Posts
June 16 2011 19:06 GMT
#2
If you watch your opponents perspective it looks to me like he is map hacking. First off he goes right to your base off the start... Say thats luck... Then he dodges your probe at just about the perfect time... That still didn't look to suspicious, but once he start warping in buildings etc, he is looking at your base in the fog several times to check what you have when he clearly doesn't have vision of u... The game was either extremely lucky cheese or map hacker... IMO
Never underestimate the power of wandering where you are most interested.
AttiiMasteR
Profile Joined April 2011
Austria60 Posts
June 16 2011 19:11 GMT
#3
ya i think angrypanda's right..unfortunately
To drone or not NOT to drone, that's the question.
ntvarify
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States331 Posts
June 16 2011 19:11 GMT
#4
Well first off its just horrible luck. And as the guy above me says he may be maphacking.
However, things you could have improved:
1. You see nothing in his base, then go back for a second scout, that lost you precious seconds.
2. Scout your base with two probes, and throw up a forge before a second gate until you know, cannons hold both 2 gate proxy and cannon rush if used right.
3. Your positioning lost you this game, if you gate was closer to your nexus, you could have gotten zealots/cannons out.
Pretty much though you just got unlucky with the way the positions went. (or he was a maphacker)
Ahelvin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
France1866 Posts
June 16 2011 19:12 GMT
#5
Blatant maphacking from his side...

Add him to the TL Hacker Database, we don't need this kind of crap to stay on Battle.Net any longer.

Oh, and report him too please .
Join the Liquipedia Zerg Project ! PM me for more information :).
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
June 16 2011 19:12 GMT
#6
Yeah that's a map hacker. Anyways:

You need a forge. You can't stop a cannon rush without your own cannons.
I recommend keeping your early buildings tight to your nexus. This allows you to pull probes for proxy zealots, and also reduces the area you need to defend from cannon rushes.

Other than that, well, it all depends how much you want to pay to prevent cheese. If you want to be really paranoid, scout your base at 9 before moving out, then scout it again shortly after. Generally in PvP, seeing nothing in their base is simply too late.
VvyzZ
Profile Joined December 2010
United States26 Posts
June 16 2011 19:15 GMT
#7
Checked out the replay - this dude didn't get lucky, he's maphacking. Not only does he look into your base through the fog multiple times, but he actually tries to dodge your scouting probe when he sees it (through the fog) coming at his probe. Watch the replay from his perspective and there's no doubt about it.

Besides the maphacking which allowed him to do this on a huge 4 player map (which makes it significantly harder to defend), the best response, imo, is:

-stop probe production
-drop a forge asap
-build at least one cannon next to your mineral line

You should be building your first pylon and gateway next to your nexus in pvp, and this is one of the main reasons why. After you get a cannon up, you have an eco lead and it's usually an easy win.

I'd submit this replay to Blizzard too.
Shadowcloak
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands194 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 19:17:30
June 16 2011 19:16 GMT
#8
First of all change thread name i think this is a hacker (and a big fail cheese).

things of improvment use 2 probes 1 to spot base one to scout youre own (naniwa style)
second and best tip i can give is sim city build youre first pylon next to nexus and wall youreself in for a bitt he invested 150 forge 300 (2 cannons) 1 gateway.
the only thing threatening is the zealot if you scout nothign at his put down a forge at yours ( with good sim city) and just wait and tech to stalkers (you do need nice stutter micro tough).

imo you pulled a idra on yourself by leaving.


¯\_(ツ)_/¯ SUPP SON
dslyecix
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada37 Posts
June 16 2011 19:25 GMT
#9
Okay, thanks for the tips beyond the map hacking (which I never even thought of TBH). I usually build away from my nexus towards any openings to open up my vision and hopefully catch any probes that try to sneak by. I generally have decent minimap awareness.

I'll try these tips from now on, so thanks for that everyone. Also I will report this in the number of places I know of.
nstiver
Profile Joined June 2011
United States9 Posts
June 16 2011 19:31 GMT
#10
watch how he looks at your main into the "fog of war" from his perspective. I think he even moves his little probe around yours as he sees it coming. I bet this guy got to diamond on the map hack+cheese combo alone.
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 19:44:46
June 16 2011 19:42 GMT
#11
Why hello replay - Gonna agree with everyone else that you probably have a maphacker on your hands. That said, based on what you saw in the game:

1 - When you see nothing in his base = FREAK OUT RIGHT AWAY.
Not only did you see nothing in his base, you saw no probes being built! (Except you didn't see, because you weren't looking at your scout. But even then, no pylons? Tsk tsk. React now!)

Drop a forge once you see no pylons in his base. You delayed this reaction for a long time, and dropped a gate instead of a forge (not unreasonable, but the forge is probably better. It finishes faster and more reliably holds off both forms of proxy cheese.) When you do build the cannon, simcity it if its vs proxy gates, put it in the direction of his cannons if it's a cannon rush. At this point you're ahead in... pretty much everything except possibly unit count. (tech, econ for certain though)

If you HAD reacted appropriately, you'd be cutting probes at 13 (he cut them at 10) and put your forge down 2-3 seconds after he puts his forge down (assuming you put it down right at 150 mins, which you should!) Then, you just drop a cannon and he can no longer build a cannon in range of it, this protects your gateway (even though your gateway is too far away from your nexus imo)

2 - You could choose to do some "naniwa scouting" in your standard play - ever see how naniwa (and others) so often scouts his own base real quick with his first probe? Sure, his scout gets to his enemy base a bit late, but gl getting cheese past him like this. You don't need to use a seperate scout for this, but you could.

3 - basically any cheese would work against you if you had to do what you do with your scout that game. I could have 6pooled you and since you don't react, it works. Yes, he maphacked, but solid play doesn't rely on going unscouted. Play more solid!
chaopow
Profile Joined March 2011
United States556 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 19:50:45
June 16 2011 19:50 GMT
#12
I think he is map hacking, but if you were paying full attention to your scouting probe you would have seen is probe just for a split second, then he dodged you. Also you reached his base at 1:40 and you werent paying attention to your probe fully so it kept going to the next queued up base. If you saw that at 1:45 he had absolutely nothing that means you have to scout both your base and his entire base ASAP, it took you a long time to do that. When you see nothing, cancel the assimilator and make a forge rather than a 2nd gateway.

Even though you need to make sure whether or not he is proxying by checking his ENTIRE base, its still best to scout both your and his base at the same time just to be safe. Instead at 2:45, a whole minute later you saw his buildings in your base and from there it was too late to react.

You probably could have prevented this, but your opponent was most likely map hacking.
Soowoo AD.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 11m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 170
BRAT_OK 65
ProTech17
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3672
Bisu 1989
Jaedong 737
Larva 567
Light 331
BeSt 329
actioN 279
Mini 195
Sacsri 150
Sharp 133
[ Show more ]
Dewaltoss 130
Pusan 95
Soma 69
ZerO 60
Killer 59
sSak 59
ToSsGirL 58
Backho 57
hero 51
Shuttle 50
Mong 45
Soulkey 42
Hyuk 41
Mind 40
Rush 35
Snow 33
ajuk12(nOOB) 30
sorry 30
Bale 26
Hm[arnc] 25
zelot 24
GoRush 22
Terrorterran 21
Noble 20
Movie 12
SilentControl 10
Shinee 3
Dota 2
Gorgc3202
XaKoH 427
XcaliburYe76
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss944
allub101
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi1132
ceh9540
crisheroes196
Pyrionflax188
B2W.Neo130
Mew2King104
KnowMe47
ToD37
ZerO(Twitch)11
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos3694
• Stunt1729
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Invitational
1h 11m
Rex vs SHIN
Rex vs MaxPax
Rex vs ShoWTimE
SHIN vs ShoWTimE
MaxPax vs SHIN
MaxPax vs ShoWTimE
Replay Cast
13h 11m
The PondCast
23h 11m
WardiTV Invitational
1d 1h
Replay Cast
1d 13h
RongYI Cup
3 days
herO vs Maru
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-02
HSC XXVIII
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W7
Escore Tournament S1: W8
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.