|
I’m sorry to point it out, but I can’t help but notice how general and unproductive your posts are, LunarDestiny.
At some point on day1, we should come up with a list of possible lynch and that will encourage those people on the list to speak up
1) Lists are a good way to appear like you are contributing, without actually adding anything.
I want to put pressure on all inactives to speak up and maybe contribution.
2) Pressure is not done in general, pressure is specific to make the player unable to hide. Your list of pressuring “all” inactives is the same as pressuring none.
3) There is a fine line between a plan, and suggestions that make you appear to be active while sending the town on a goosechase. Your plan requires no work from yourself (“we” should do this and that), is very general (“at some point”), and it’s limited to inactives instead of scumhunting, making it mechanic, so even when we hit town, the mafia is not guilty.
In general, the player list is a little more stacked with active players than Pokemafia/HPmafia, so inactives shouldn’t be as much as a problem (even if I just replaced one…)
|
I think the problems with inactives in HP mafia and Pokemafia was largely down to the number of new players. In this player list, there is a fair few veterans, who are used to have an impact on the game, which should help diminish the problems with inactives, and on top of that the gross offenders from those games has been banned.
This thread has so far been more active than both of those games, so I’m with annul when he suggest we scumhunt first, and deal with inactives if we have nothing better. And a wagon on LSB is very different from one on Kenpachi :/
This doesn't mean we can't put pressure on them of course...
|
+ Show Spoiler +On December 28 2010 07:40 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 07:34 LunarDestiny wrote:I am following debates between Annul and LSB. There are something I don't get. Annul's conclusion in his first post about why LSB should be lynched. in conclusion, LSB has been making pure nonposts and/or pure informative posts without analysis, with the two exceptions being his insistence on the "kill inactives" theme and his defenses of pandain and mr. wiggles. yet he has like 30 posts up while saying almost absolutely nothing.
my vote is on LSB now. Annul, your conclusion for lynching LSB is because he have about 30 posts. All 30 posts, except 2, are posts that means nothing and pure informative posts without analysis? LSB, are your reasons for lynching Annul in page 17? -1. Giant wall of text that pretends to be contributing -2. He doesn't want to do anything about inactives -3. He makes a faulty analysis that is forced -4. Annul posts without brining anything new I will say what I think of this later, but I want to get these two points straight. Indeed. 1/4 are basically the same thing. How about this. With a bit more explanation. 1) Makes posts that don't do much, but pretend to be contributing. Then congratulates himself of all the contributions that he did. This is a mafia manuver. See LMNOP in WaW mafia 2) Although Annul says inactives hurt the town, he has not done anything to attempt to deal with the problem. He has shot down all attempts at working together a solution without offering a reason, let alone an alternative. This is a decidedly anti-town maneuver, as leaving the inactives alone will lose us the game. See Pokemafia 3) Annul analysis is forced. This is incredibly telling. See my analysis on SR in TMM2, I was mafia and I made a forced junk analysis in order to try to take off heat.
Why would a mafia analysis be forced on day 1? There was noone else pointing fingers of LSB, until annul made his post. If he is mafia he has no incentive to lynch this badly.
Second your reasons for voting annul is pretty weak considering you clearly would rather lynch an inactive. Why do you vote a player without believing in it? Even worse why do you vote omgus?
On December 28 2010 07:47 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 07:31 Barundar wrote:
I think the problems with inactives in HP mafia and Pokemafia was largely down to the number of new players. In this player list, there is a fair few veterans, who are used to have an impact on the game, which should help diminish the problems with inactives, and on top of that the gross offenders from those games has been banned. Just to give you an idea. 4 people haven't posted yet. And 9 posters have only posted spam/point out that Pandain is being bandwagoned.
That’s not really a lot of inactives on day 1. Why don't you name one at put pressure though?
|
On December 28 2010 08:11 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 07:42 annul wrote:On December 28 2010 07:34 LunarDestiny wrote:I am following debates between Annul and LSB. There are something I don't get. Annul's conclusion in his first post about why LSB should be lynched. in conclusion, LSB has been making pure nonposts and/or pure informative posts without analysis, with the two exceptions being his insistence on the "kill inactives" theme and his defenses of pandain and mr. wiggles. yet he has like 30 posts up while saying almost absolutely nothing.
my vote is on LSB now. Annul, your conclusion for lynching LSB is because he have about 30 posts. All 30 posts, except 2, are posts that means nothing and pure informative posts without analysis? LSB, are your reasons for lynching Annul in page 17? -1. Giant wall of text that pretends to be contributing -2. He doesn't want to do anything about inactives -3. He makes a faulty analysis that is forced -4. Annul posts without brining anything new I will say what I think of this later, but I want to get these two points straight. my conclusion is that, yes, PLUS his insistence on going after inactives instead of scumhunting. it would be very easy for a mafia to know his team all happen to be active and then say "hey kill inactives over all else EVEN IF scummy targets exist" I'm not sure what to make of this annul vs. LSB business. Annul says that LSB may be mafia and knows his team is active, so he wants to divert attention away from them towards the inactives. But to play devil's advocate, one could say that annul may be mafia and knows that his team is inactive and laying low, and would rather portray someone else as scummy and divert attention away from the inactives. I'm of the opinion that if there's a clear target for lynching we should go for it, and if not, pick off one of the inactives, but this whole situation just seems murky. This whole argument seems to be very polarizing and I can already see divisions being made. =/
Polarization is actually not bad. Mafia hate to take sides and would rather soft defend by pointing towards someone else or be very uncertain in their defence. There is no such thing as a clear lynch, especially not on the first day, we have little to go on and mafia has a pletora of options for providing alternative lynch candidates. But if you have a number of explanations, the simplest is usually the right one, which why I don't think annul is mafia.
|
On December 28 2010 16:50 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 16:40 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:18 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:17 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
LSB; while Annul doesn't have a very strong case against you, your defense was pretty pathetic. I've had a bad gut feeling about you for a while, it's not something I was planning on voting on but Annul did bring out all of the problems I had been having with your posts. I'm not voting you quite yet but I would like you to give more than one line answers whenever someone puts a fos on you. Consider this post a +1 for Annul's case against LSB. I'd like to see you take some time in defending yourself and not just brush it off because there were some good points in annul's post. Give me a point to address then. Bump. Why did you OMGUS vote annul when I'm sure you know that's a common scumtell?
... and why did you vote for him while you kept trying to make town look for inactives? Shouldn't you be trying to convince people to your case if you where certain enough to vote?
In pokemafia, you said "I was very protective of my Shockeyy lynch", when someone suggested another possible mafia lynch. Now you are fine with the town splitting up attention. How would you explain this change in play style?
|
On December 28 2010 16:42 Node wrote:
I think between annul and LSB it's actually quite likely that one of them is scum. In Haunted Mafia, DocH and Pandain continually re-iterated the same arguments against each other, making huge walls of text that consumed many pages, and diverted town discussion from important things for like two whole game days. In the end, Pandain was scum. The difference there was that there were no PMs that game, so it was more important to be able to follow the thread well. All the same, I'm sensing echoes of that here, especially since annul seems to want to continue to force the issue.
So you argue that one of them is scum, yet reach the conclusion we should divert attention away? This seems illogical. And you vote for the one of them keeping up the pressure?
On December 28 2010 16:42 Node wrote:I'll also say that I find annul's posting to be much scummier than LSB's. The way he's posting reminds me a lot of the way he played Experimental Mini Mafia (which was an interesting experience, as I knew he was scum from the beginning  ), whereas LSB's defense and contribution seems a lot more like his posting in Pokemafia, where he was green.
In that game annul only posted 1 liners, voted without reason etc. In this game he is providing big analysis and is willing to defend it. How is that the same?
|
He clarifies that he wants to not target an inactive for a day 1 lynch, but wants to pressure them into posting via his list. Which... I don't really get. Why would they post if there was no actual threat of being lynched? Also, I don't think mafia pressuring inactives would actually be bad, as long as . In addition the last time a complete inactive got lynched day 1 (salem mafia w/BrownBear), they ended up being red, though to be fair it was a traitor role, so the mafia wasn't aware of their alignment.
Scumslip?
More comments on the LSB / annul debate. I'm happy to see him voice his thoughts on the matter, though I would rather see an actual position taken instead of just listing the various issues that are guiding the debate. He could be genuinely unsure of which side to take, or it could be the typical wishy-washy mafia.
That is exactly how I feel about you after reading your analysis :/ Case in point: Final verdict: undecided
|
Well, after reading LunarDestiny's posts, would you reach a different conclusion? I picked him because he was setting off warning bells in my head, and I wasn't entirely sure why. After doing an analysis, I realized it maybe wasn't entirely warranted, though I will be keeping an eye on him.
I found he responded well to my pressure, so I dropped it. If you analysed him and found it unreasoned, why post a long post discussing it back and forth?
And just because mafia does it doesn't mean it's inherently bad for the town. Are you going to tell me it's bad if a mafia incites an inactive townie to start posting and contributing?
The reason I find your half edited line to be a possible scumslip is beceause it's a controversial line for a mafia to post, making them think twice about it, while an unconcerned townie wouldn't have had a problem posting it.
|
Sigh what is the point of putting pressure by votes on a player who is clearly afk, this shortly before the day ends?
|
I understand you want to save yourself, but Brocket is the worst scapegoat you could possibly find. He is as scummy as Kenpachi when posting, and now he is even afk. Voting him is the same as abstaining, and really gets us nowhere.
|
On December 29 2010 10:31 Insanious wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2010 10:24 Barundar wrote:
I understand you want to save yourself, but Brocket is the worst scapegoat you could possibly find. He is as scummy as Kenpachi when posting, and now he is even afk. Voting him is the same as abstaining, and really gets us nowhere. Between Brocket and LSB, I would much much much rather Brocket dead then LSB... There really isn't another choice now due to time constraints... Annul brought us to this point, a 1 person bandwaggon is pretty much the worst thing that can happen to the town. 0 analysis can be done concerning votes, mafia can hide where ever they want to when voting for a town... You need at least 2 candidates every day for voting or it might as well just be a random.org vote. LSB has a high chance of being a blue, and killing a blue, especially early is terrible.\ Brocket is most likely green or a lurking mafia... and since there have been 4 people comming out of no where to defend Brocket it makes me think Brocket is even more red.
You wan't to save him beceause of a blue claim? LSB is experienced enough to blueclaim if he is mafia. He should also be experienced enough to not omgus vote, and claim he owed it to the town.
The only case where nothing can be analysed from votes, is if you out of the blue pick an afk player to bus. He gets no chance to defend himself, and noone needs to post their reasons for voting him. You are effectively killing the main point of discussion of the day off, and I have a hard time finding something more hurtful to the town.
Brocket is most likely green or a lurking mafia... and since there have been 4 people comming out of no where to defend Brocket it makes me think Brocket is even more red
You haven't even let Brocket defend himself, yet you will happily believe LSB's claim, and believe Brocket is mafia?
|
While I know it's my mistake to vote and argue for LSB, it's way too easy to be smart about it after. The only ones that knew he was innocent was mafia. LSB's main policy was to lure out lurkers, so that's the ones I'm looking at, at the moment, and I encourage DT's to do same, unless ofcourse you got something better.
|
TheMango and Shockeyy mind posting your reasons for your votes? Just for later reference.
|
Discussion just died, no way we are getting anywhere like this.
On December 30 2010 18:57 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Alright. So I am tired of this town being wishwashy so much. Tomorrow before I go to work I am going to decide on a lynch target. We are going to kill them, if I am wrong you guys can kill me if you so wish it. The thing is I will chose my target, I will push them relentlessly, and I will be right. I will most likely choose one of the three mentioned before, but it is going to be large analysis followed by a relentless attack until I get my way. I see three candidates going out right now with some shitty stupid reasoning. I will examine every person being suggested right now and decide which one is best. I welcome all who oppose me.
I'm not sure we need another all out war between 2 players now, even if you have been right in other games - to be honest this is the first time I have seen you alive by day 2 as town in the 2 games I've played with you.
I'm not entirely sure what the rationale behind voting Insanious is, he was very active throughout yesterday, and would a mafia really have an incentitive to put themselves in the spotlight that much for an innocent? Same reasoning kinda rules out Pandain as scum for me, why would he be so wavering to defend a blue?
I'd like to get some more people's opinion on these targets. LSB's aim was to lure out lurkers, before he got sidetracked by the debate between himself and annul. Honest opinions will atleast give us something to work with.
|
Mr.zergling would you mind posting your reason for voting mr.wiggles? And why you pick hin over the other suggested targets?
|
|
|
Anyone else with thoughts on option for double lynch? I personally think it's too early yet, atleast untill we get a better idea of targets for today.
|
I find it interesting you appear when called out OpZ. I'm unsure whether you trust RoL or not, most of your posts in the thread has been about something he said. What do you think speaks for lynching Insanious?
|
On December 31 2010 08:34 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2010 05:56 Barundar wrote:
Anyone else with thoughts on option for double lynch? I personally think it's too early yet, atleast untill we get a better idea of targets for today. Why would you even bring this up? Day 2 double lynch when we have no good targets? Are you just trying to fill space?
I didn't bring it up, but may I ask why you don't want to discuss it? We need to get the town involved, if we want to lure out mafia.
You still suggest we should all post a FoS each?
|
... and annul votes without providing a reason. I would like for some more of the inactives to join the discussion. Brockett what's your thoughts on the current targets? Darthien we still need to see a first post from you. Also maybe you could address some of the points raised against you, Seraph?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
