EPTthis looks fun, actually.
Small game?
Kingmaker - A New Game
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
this looks fun, actually. Small game? | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
As far as using the relics I don't think using the random kill is wise. This is a better gambit for the end of the game, when the probability of hitting someone increases. It would be against the interest of the assassins to use this ability except early on, when the probability of hitting themselves is drastically lower. Therefore no King should use the random lynch. If we really aren't okay with someone being killed for Day 1 we should use the ability to gain some possible intel. It's not a guarantee but it will give us a better start for day 2. | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On November 09 2010 13:10 orgolove wrote: The Kingmaker can't claim. He's modkilled if he does claim. -_- Regarding some questionables: 1. Pandain - I don't think a red would bring so much suspicion onto himself immediately after the game starts. Despite his early vote, I don't think he's one of the assassins. 2. DoctorHelvetica/Amber[Light] - I see any defense of giving the King a free reign as a red trying to leave open the possibility of one of them getting away with killing a green as the king without consequence. I think LSB covered this already, but let me repeat again - there is NO advantage to the town to let the king decide the lynch on himself. The very definition of townies are weaklings whose only advantage is their numbers - how can a rational green throw their only advantage away? Lets see here... You aren't providing any real beneficial reason why it would be beneficial for the town to do this, instead relying on the excuse of adhering to some mysterious "spirit of the game." Of course you'd say this. On the surface, this seems like a pretty neutral post. But look at this from the standpoint of a mafia. They know who each other is, and thus by analogue already know who they should lynch. A red King will never use the excalibur. And a red king will later refer to this very post to argue why he isn't using it. Here you're banking on the fact that 1. merlin can only be used ONCE, and 2. It is UNRELIABLE. Thus, seen from a red point of view, anything the merlin may possibly reveal could comparatively easily be discussed away as bad information. overall, I see Amber's latest post as very condemning. ##Vote Amber[Light] Don't you think it would be wise for the assassins to take advantage of eliminating these roles so they can't be used in the late game? You completely misinterpreted my post and went ahead to stretch what I thought about how to execute this game in such a way to make me appear as though I'm negative. It would be wise for you to do a little more research before jumping to conclusions on the vote train. Hopefully the king is not going to act irrationally and come to ridiculous conclusions and justifications for their kills. I'm not going to "vote" for anybody for now since I don't really believe it's going to create a good pro-town atmosphere. The first day kill is going to be bitter for everybody regardless of who we choose. Don't forget... there's only 9 of us... | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
Kings shouldn't really claim so quickly. It's going to twist constructive discussion in this thread. There's gonna be a lot of ass kissing too and the kings mind may be tainted by irrational thread discussion, hence why a player who is an independent thinker and someone who has a good scum-dar should be our kings. Work downward. Don't feel bad ranking individuals based upon their skill in other games. The kingmaker is [i]soooooo important so hopefully he's already got a good long-term game plan..[/b] | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On November 09 2010 14:52 orgolove wrote: Amber seems more scummy by the minute. Here you give no actual substantive response to both me and several others in the thread that point out the enormous advantages given to the town, and instead rely on a weak defense that I'm stretching your words. How is it remotely a good idea to give the reds any possibility to kill a townie without consequence? As Hesmyrr mentioned, following this pattern means we will simply default to the standard F9 setup, which has been proven time and time again to be reasonably balanced for the town despite the mafia's ability to influence the arguments. Right now it just appears that you're just trying to leave room for the reds to kill a town without consequence when a red mayor comes around. In your haste, you yourself proved why we should not allow the king to kill whomever he wants, as he can then And no, I do not agree with the King not revealing himself once chosen. We need to find out what the king is thinking. We have a different king each day, and the game setup does not have any day kills. So there is absolutely no disadvantage to the king being revealed to the towns, and it will only give the Assassins, with their ability to PM, an even better chance to plot behind their backs. Remember - there are -no- PMs for townies! So, here I ask again: King, who are you? You have some incredible invested interest in me, and I'm flattered. I also find it ironic that we're sitting on complete opposite ends of the spectrum, and as you try and incriminate me you're also looking for the king. This leads me to believe that you are not the king. So I know the kingmaker did a good job picking a good and reasonable king. King, despite what the above says, roleclaiming so quickly is not smart. Stay in the shadows and decide for yourself. Feel free to post, but don't outright claim. PMing is not something we should worry about. You're using a game mechanic to justify your faulty reasoning for a roleclaim. The ability to PM was an incredibly strong mechanic in the hands of the town, not the assassins. You are twisting facts with mechanic discussion, all while trying to push for my death. You got balls. There is an incredible disadvantage to the town knowing who the king was. I stated it already, but you shrugged it off. So I'm going to shrug your nonsense off. If you want I'll continue to discredit you all game. I have no problem doing this, and I'd be more than happy to play the game this way. You should probably pick a plan that's going to benefit the town in the long run, not gun for a player and hope things get better tomorrow. Hope everyone is seeing what exactly is going on here lol. | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On November 09 2010 18:56 Hesmyrr wrote: WTF are you keep talking about. So if there is 5-3 split and king goes, "oh guy with 3 votes seem more suspicious imma hammer him" do you have any idea what chaos would ensure thereafter? At the point where king makes a decision where town opinion is not so decisive as your example, everything goes to shit whether the king turns out to be town or not. Like I said, if the king has valid excuse behind his push, then it should be enough to convince the majority into believing his case. In fact please explain how "t should be pretty obvious if he goes with the general "stream of thought" that the town is going with, or if he just chooses to lynch someone who seems completely random to the town" somehow turns into support for the statement "I disagree that king should listen to town." If there's a 5-3 split chances are the mafia influenced a decision. This is such a small game where math can actually be used to determine alignment. Want to vote? Fine lets vote. It's going to give the assassins one extra opportunity to get their camouflage set up to remain unnoticed. The assassins have a lot of power here. They can manipulate the vote count in either favor. They can push on the majority (5-3 2 mafia votes on majority). This means that the town would know that 2 people on the list of 5 are probably mafia. They can push on the minority (5-3 2 mafia votes on minority). This means that the assassins are looking to assimilate themselves into the town. They're going to use this to their advantage. They could split votes (5-3 1 mafia vote on each). This means we have no shot of knowing where the assassins want their votes to go. We just know that our 2 choices were bad. In this scenario using the merlin ability on Day 1 is highly advantageous. This cancels the day 1 vote and gives us shifty intel. Whether we choose to use the information gained is up to us and the king at the time, ultimately. They could also vote for someone completely different. This would be highly unlikely and easy for the town to spot if they look carefully. Problem is a villager will flip and the town will accuse the two major parties. The voting system is incredibly flawed in this type of a game. Giving the King ultimate say relieves a lot of the burden of analyzing the game simply on voting trends. The King makes a decision, and we hold the King accountable depending on the analysis of the day. We can vote, but the King should not be bound to the majority. He's a King after all, and we didn't vote for him. | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On November 10 2010 03:16 LSB wrote: Exactly. The issue I'm seeking to prevent is what if the king goes against majority. If we have no definitive statement, there will be no way to tell if a king is scum or town. But I see your point about a frustrated townie. Although I usually would say "suck it up and do what's best". I just thought of this. New thought How about this. The king can announce, at least 24 hours beforehand who he is going to lynch. And then he must defend his lynch and reasoning, and satisfy the town, or go with the majority opinion. I am okay with this, as it's a lot more transparent, and we can easily tell if the king is trying to find scum, or if the king is just trying to make a flimsy case against someone. I am on board with this idea. The King could probably give a list of 2 people that should be up for a lynch. This might encourage more discussion. By putting on player under the radar you're going to have 1 player vs. the town. No one is going to step up and defend someone unknowingly. Giving the King the task of identifying and examining 2 players means that his analytical reasoning should remain constant, and it gives the town more leeway. I could only imagine an assassin King coming up with some BS as to why candidate X should be lynched, and the town just idly agrees while candidate X is screaming at the other players that they aren't being reasonable. This is where the King should absolve his power. When it comes to discussion, he should remember that he is still just another townie. When should the King announce his presence? Right at the start of day? Wait 24 hours after each day post? | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
sorry bout that :/ | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
I think Orgolove is my biggest suspect since he was the only person that threw out a blank accusation yesterday (against me). The pressure wasn't pushed after DrH stepped up and named his lynch, so I'm a bit suspicious of this. I'd like to hear more from BrownBear & Hesmyrr since they're playing on the fairly quiet side. | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On November 14 2010 08:45 BrownBear wrote: I'll vote Amber, for now. I'm mostly curious to see if the possible connection between Amber and LSB is actually a connection as opposed to my paranoia. So... yeah. Vote: Amber There is no connection. Just like how there was none between DrH and me. It will be a wasted lynch. #vote: BrownBear | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On November 14 2010 11:05 Hesmyrr wrote: DAY 1 STARTS F*** this, I am NOT going to discuss individual posts. I lack too much patience for that. orgolove-Amber[Light] twit twat While I agree with generic content of the post that started this, attack on Amber[LighT] feels bit stretched considering lot other people besides him unanimously agreeed Excalibur was useless before you spoke up. I still do not understand Amber[LighT]'s last sentence, and I equally do not understand what orgolove is attacking him on, but if what amber says is what I think he is saying ("we should use excalibur d1") then yeah, -1 townie points for him since that is wrong in so many levels =/ But then amber replies so I don't think that is it either. Can either of you please explain what you guys were talking about because I have hard time understanding it. I am sorry but English is not my first language, so I am declaring this null read for now due to lack of information. Third paragraph is still worthy of mentioning though. He understands the possibility of King making irrational and possibly disputable choices and yet he would go for king autonomy? THEN he refuses to vote for the sake of "[creating] a good pro-town atmosphere"? I thought the good pro-town atmosphere for the mafia was where everyone was discussing their opinion about other players, not trying to refrain from attacking each other / cartering to other player's feelings ("buddying"). My suspicion metre of Amber[LighT] has shot up immeasureably, but I only touched beginning of the argument so I can possibly have joy of orgolove pulling off equally scummy maneuver. orgolove's response is acceptable, though I'll take into note that he asked the king to claim. Amber[LighT]'s reply only focuses on the second paragraph where orgolove askes for king claim and ignores the first paragraph. I don't like that. Okay, that's unfair since I just saw he effectively answered why he do not like voting system in his response to me, but seriously? You are going to call voting system which was used in mafia games for aeons "flawed" and state King autonomy is going to be better? First, there will be scum king some point in the game so argument that voting is bad because mafia can influence the lynch is null. Giving all the power into the king leads to danger of town spotlight being focused entirely on the king itself. The voting system allows everyone to be held accountable for their actions, not just the king. This is seriously weak argument rehashed into WoT. orgolove disappears here and don't return for rest of the day methinks. orgolove and Amber[LighT] both had somewhat miffy points some point in their argument, but I definitely find amber to be worse. I might be suffering from DoctorHelvetica complex so I will withhold my vote until I finish the entire game, but I will probably looking over him hard as I do this. (to be continued, b/c day 1 has motherload of posts. I feel like that time where I tried to cram for mid-term all in one night.) I'm going to address your points as best as possible. I apologize for any discrepancies w/ regards to the language barrier. I understand not everyone speaks English first, so I will address what I can... The use of the relics: My thought when I read the description of the game and the various roles, even before Day 1 began, was that the relics could be used for a couple of scenarios: a. The assassins could use this as a mechanism to divert blame away from making a decision that could bite them in the ass. This could increase trust with the King that used the relic because they felt that the town could benefit as a whole by not having a lynch directly come back to them later. b. The assassins could use them to make sure that the town could not take advantage of these abilities later in the game. When you think about it, using Merlin for pro-town purposes is most beneficial during the first day, and the first day only. The worth of using this ability decreases day after day. The assassins could eventually use this ability to cause utter confusion at any point, making the worth of using it stay relatively the same throughout the game. The opposite actually applies for the other relic. That ability will increase in worth as the days go on, since the odds of hitting an assassin increase (see below) : *Assuming assassins never get hit: Day 1 --> 2/9 chance Day 2 --> 2/7 chance Day 3 --> 2/5 chance Day 4 --> 2/3 chance (useless by then, but still worth noting) **I am \ assuming that the sword also takes out the sitting king by random. If not then subtract 1 person per day. The worth of the ability would increase for an assassin king to use though. It would appear that using the sword early is risky, but beneficial for the mafia. By today though, the worth of either ability has diminished so I doubt either party will jump to use them. By today though I think even talking about the relics is pointless. I think the consensus of the town is that we would rather not use them. I am okay with this decision. Also I replied to the most pressing issue in Orgoloves post. If he felt I did anything to not fulfill a complete response he could have asked me to respond again and rephrase the question. He did not. He made another post today that rehashed similar posting habits from his day 1 posts and I replied accordingly. Also don't think that there is a 100% chance that there will be a mafia king. The kingmaker could actually be lucky enough to analyze players that are playing very pro-town. It's important for the kingmaker to do his part and analyze the players behind the scenes and avoid picking scum players. We could go through the whole game without ever having an assassin king. Congrats to the kingmaker if that happens. | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
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