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--Edit
Seems like that was their birthday present to me... just noticed that today is my BD... havent even got the time to think about that, damn adulthood is already showing up... >_>
--
Mod Edit: If you don't know anything about German IP law don't reply to this thread. You are not helping.
First of all let me warn, this is not a post about if copyright is right or wrong, so keep your point of view on that matter at a minimum, I need help and the last thing i want is this thread going to the toiled because of that old debate.
I will post my point of view on the matter just so you can have a point of reference on what I would accept as a choice and what not.
+ Show Spoiler [personal point of view] +
I agree with copyrights. I know that when you worked hard for your work you want to be acknowledged and you want to earn your money. I personally download stuff from time to time (if I say I dont i would be lying) but I do make sure to purchase (most of the time) the stuff I enjoy.
Am I doing something illegal?
-- Due to how the current laws are built, yes I am and I am prepared for the consequences.
Do I agree with those laws?
-- Not completely, they do not belong on this modern society without some modification (which the companies dont want to do because they want to maintain the status quo)
I completely disagree with how some companies use copyrights to squeeze money out of random people even when what they do and the way of doing it is morally wrong but is completely legal. (like saying that you have to pay up to $10,000 "per song" in cases where the person downloaded an album over the internet, no matter how you put it more than $50 per song is already way too much considering that a cd is like $10~$15...)
I am a Dominican guy living in Germany. Never have dealt with copyright issues until now so I need some guidance. I will consult with an attorney soon but I want to have some quick reference on where am I standing and if I have some options available before spending too much money (which I dont have).
Short Version:
I might be getting sued for copyright infringement.
I received a "cease and desist" with a $936 Eur bill, if i dont sign and pay they will bring me to court.
I think is either:
a) an error, since i did not download/copy the file in question (explained on the TL;DR)
b) a scam (very unlikely, also explained on the TL;DR)
Either way i need to get my ass moving because i only have 1 week to send this back signed or take my stand.
Need to know which are my options, to decide what I will do.
+ Show Spoiler [TL;DR (contains detailed info)] +
The problem:
I got a letter yesterday from a company film called "Constantin Films" stating that I infringed a copyright by downloading a movie called "Blood" that belongs to them.
The letter contains date of the download (march of this year) my IP at the time and for how long the download was running. First I find odd that they are sending a letter now about something that happened almost a full year ago, but what the heck...
The letter continues asking my signature for a "cease and desist" and a bill for $936 Eur. I assume that as soon as I sign that I would declare myself guilty and would HAVE to pay the bill, which 1) I think is stupid having to pay almost $1000 for a movie and 2) I dont have that much money even if I would just say "fuck it, i will pay it"...
The other issue is, while I do download anime series, and at that time I did download an anime called "Blood+" by recommendation of a friend I never downloaded a movie called "Blood", I dont have that file and it has never been in my PC. So I assume they made a mistake.
Another thing is that, there are 2 computers behind my router so I cannot say for sure if the other pc contains that file (it is the computer of my wife so I really doubt it).
Help needed:
So, now i need to know which should be my firsts steps on this. As I mentioned I have never dealt with this before so not sure how to proceed.
I cannot assume this is a scam (which my wife mildly suggested at some point) for several reasons, like my personal info displayed on the letter, and the law firm issuing the letter being very real (i googled a bit on them).
I have read online and some people say that I can ignore letters sent by law firms like that since they are scare tactics but I cannot ignore court summonings... note: this letter is just from a law firm.
Others say they searched for a lawyer right away and when they confronted the company the company didnt want go to court because their case wouldnt hold up, due to lack of evidence and other things that is too much to mention here. My problem with this is I do not want to start paying for a lawyer right away because I do not have much money.
Conclusion:
What are the first steps that i need to take for handling this issue?
I am willing to pay for a lawyer if needed but I want to be really sure i need one before i go that path because i cannot simply waste my money, specially now.
I also need to know if I go the aggressive way, hire a lawyer and go fighting for my rights since I am sure i didnt download that file, or should I go in a more reserved way, until I have more information on this since I cannot rule out the possibility of a scam.
Thanks for your help guys.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
A Google of constantin films + blood suggests that they have distribution rights to the blood series.
If it was me, i'd pay the fine - i can only imagine court costs etc will be much higher.
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i need to learn to google better.
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See if you have any friends or family friends who are lawyers who can advise you for free. I'm inclined to say that even if you can't afford a lawyer, you should at the very least contact them and let them know they made a mistake, that you never downloaded that movie. I know little enough about American law and even less about German law, but I would agree that you can absolutely ignore this, but then legal action MAY follow - however it is far from certain. They may send out hundreds of these letters and just hope to get enough people paying scared to pay their legal costs.
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Doubt it's a scam, but take it with a grain of salt anyways.
Honestly, if it were me, I'd ignore it. Especially since you're sure you didn't do it.
You basically need to weigh the options:
1) Ignore it. They don't give you summons to court. Nothing happens.
2) Ignore it. They give you summons to court. You have to pay lots of legal fees. Maybe win, maybe lose, either way spend a lot of money.
3) Pay the money. You know the amount you lose, and it's all over after paying.
You have to weigh the case they have against you: Did they actually catch you downloading this? If you didn't, who knows what 'evidence' they have against you. If they don't have sufficient, they probably won't give you a summons.
Honestly, it's a tough decision to make. You either gamble and win hard or lose hard, or don't gamble and accept a smaller lose.
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I have read online and some people say that I can ignore letters sent by law firms like that since they are scare tactics but I cannot ignore court summonings... note: this letter is just from a law firm.
definitely true, but if they took the time to send you a letter, there is a fairly decent chance a summons will follow.
Others say they searched for a lawyer right away and when they confronted the company the company didnt want go to court because their case wouldnt hold up, due to lack of evidence and other things that is too much to mention here. My problem with this is I do not want to start paying for a lawyer right away because I do not have much money.
if you ignore them, court comes calling, theyre that invested at that point that they might just say 'hey, fuck you. you didnt want to take the easy way out and now were going to make an example of you', even if you approach them and say you'll pay the original thing instead of going through the hassle
then again, europe is whacky and your laws could be totally different. call and see if you could get legal advice for cheap/free. i sure as shit wouldnt dick around on an internet forum with something this serious
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I really don't have any advices to give you, except if you have some family or friends who are lawyers as someone said before.
But i have one question if you don't mind me asking. What program did you use to download that? Just curiosity.
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If you're feeling ill, go to a doctor, if you're about to get sued, go to a lawyer etc. Internet fora are great but not a substitute for an experts opinion. I don't know about germany, but here there are ways for a free consultation/short advice.
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You should make a angry-customer-call to your ISP, that should confirm it / debunk it
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On September 30 2010 01:53 Kennigit wrote:
A Google of constantin films + blood suggests that they have distribution rights to the blood series.
If it was me, i'd pay the fine - i can only imagine court costs etc will be much higher.
not sure where you got the information, but it doesnt look like that at all:
Blood: the film
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0806027/companycredits
Constatin Films on the 5th spot
Blood+: the anime
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0482855/companycredits
Dont see constantin films anywhere... they have no rights to the anime series which is the one i guiltily admit have in my PC.
So again as far as I can tell they have no business with me, or so I think.
--Edit
@Hawk
I will seek for a lawyer but i just wanted to have some info in my hands because here i might have to pay some hundred eurs just to consult one. >_>
@Grettin
I used Azureus at that time, i havent downloaded for a while since i am working on some little programs that i wrote so i dont have much time to watch stuff on the PC anymore.
@blix
agree and will do, just needed to know somethings before hand to not go like a complete ignorant (which i am) to the lawyer who i will probably have to pay by the hour... the quicker the session goes the better for me i guess, and going without no info will call for wasting time with some basic questions that might get answered here already
@blomsterjohn
haha, will try for sure
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
I was wrong.
http://www.nme.com/movies/trailers/id/GVGhtUsE7dQ/search/movie
This is probably what they are talking about like you said.
On September 30 2010 02:03 Blix wrote:
If you're feeling ill, go to a doctor, if you're about to get sued, go to a lawyer etc. Internet fora are great but not a substitute for an experts opinion. I don't know about germany, but here there are ways for a free consultation/short advice.
Smartest guy in this thread.
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tl;dr
don't sign it
don't pay it
don't ignore it
there is some special "Unterlassungserklärung" where you say: "i wont do it in the future but this does not mean i did what you accuse me of". This is the best way to go. Just google it or look for some older c't magazine from heise.de .
Well and maybe consult a lawyer.
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move to a different country.
they won't find you there.
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I have only gotten warning about copywrite infringement, but as other have said, get a lawyer.
I also think its interesting what you named the thread, it sounds like you are expecting to get sued more
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I think you are the victim of this lawyer company operating in England and Germany that was recenty attacked by 4chan, named ACS:Law . They make 'profit' by sending this kind of harrassment letters to people and making them pay to avoid court. They can get your IP and what files were you downloading via a formal request to your internet service provider, the information then gets filtered for movies belonging to certain producers, and then they mail this letters and reap the proffit. It sounds a lot like good ol' mafia extorsion but with a legal makeup.
If this is the case, what I'd first advise is to make sure that downloading that file is indeed a clear cut crime in Germany. For instance, in Spain, regardless of the constant media propaganda, it is NOT. And if it is the case, I'd personally not pay them and bluff going to court, to see if they retract (which they probably will). Specifically, ACS:Law has been discovered (due to the 4chan attack) to be in deep financial problems, so I don't think they are in any position to risk pursuing long trials themselves. Appart from the fact that they'll probably be facing serious charges of mis-protection of personal information very soon.
In any case, I wish you good luck!
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On September 30 2010 02:04 Kennigit wrote:I was wrong. http://www.nme.com/movies/trailers/id/GVGhtUsE7dQ/search/movieThis is probably what they are talking about like you said. Show nested quote +On September 30 2010 02:03 Blix wrote:
If you're feeling ill, go to a doctor, if you're about to get sued, go to a lawyer etc. Internet fora are great but not a substitute for an experts opinion. I don't know about germany, but here there are ways for a free consultation/short advice. Smartest guy in this thread.
Correct...
btw Blix check my edited answer 1 or 2 posts above this. I agree with you, just need some info. 
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On September 30 2010 02:14 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
I have only gotten warning about copywrite infringement, but as other have said, get a lawyer.
I also think its interesting what you named the thread, it sounds like you are expecting to get sued more
Well thats the worst i can expect, and considering that i am not completely willing to pay $936 eur, for a movie (even though i might change my opinion) I think the course that will follow is that they will want to sue me.
So I am getting ready for the worse even though i hope i can solve this without reaching there.
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On September 30 2010 02:15 Ender985 wrote:
I think you are the victim of this lawyer company operating in England and Germany that was recenty attacked by 4chan, named ACS:Law . They make 'profit' by sending this kind of harrassment letters to people and making them pay to avoid court. They can get your IP and what files were you downloading via a formal request to your internet service provider, the information then gets filtered for movies belonging to certain producers, and then they mail this letters and reap the proffit. It sounds a lot like good ol' mafia extorsion but with a legal makeup.
If this is the case, what I'd first advise is to make sure that downloading that file is indeed a clear cut crime in Germany. For instance, in Spain, regardless of the constant media propaganda, it is NOT. And if it is the case, I'd personally not pay them and bluff going to court, to see if they retract (which they probably will). Specifically, ACS:Law has been discovered (due to the 4chan attack) to be in deep financial problems, so I don't think they are in any position to risk pursuing long trials themselves. Appart from the fact that they'll probably be facing serious charges of mis-protection of personal information very soon.
In any case, I wish you good luck!
Tbh, this is not the first time people are actually getting these kind of letters. Should get some more info and ask your lawyer about this.
And thanks for the answer, raptorX!
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Seriously, I don't really know anything about German laws BUT I would take this to court and just show them the proof that you didn't even download THEIR movie and then they would look like complete and utter morons. You can't be fined for downloading something else since that company isn't there demanding you to pay.
I would seriously be happy if the same thing happened to me, they're obviously complete retards and would get assraped in court.
EDIT: As someone else stated you should also make a VERY angry phonecall to your ISP for giving out information without: 1) Telling you they did so. and 2) Not verifying the company that wanted the info had legitimate source to ask for it.
Maybe you can get a couple of moths for free after this.
EDIT2: Where did you download the anime from? Would be nice to know which sites are infested by Anti-piracy retards.
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You should definitely see a lawyer. If you are low on money you can go to any "Amtsgericht" (local district court) and apply for "Beratungshilfe" (financial aid for legal advice). No shame there.
One major thing to keep in mind: Are you sure you are sued for simply "downloading" a movie or was it for sharing/uploading the movie. Does the software you used for downloading automatically share your downloads with others?
It might seem as a minor technicality, but it greatly affects the amount of money at stake.
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EPT
