On September 30 2010 23:47 ooni wrote: Okay guys, I am going to give an advice which will forever change your life. I mean forever.
Buy an used copy of whatever product you are getting sued for. Tell them you could not find it so you downloaded it. You found the product sometime after you downloaded it.
Yes, I understand the license specifies the fact you may only use your product, but this is a loop hole since the courts always (I mean always) re-examine EULAs.
But usually you aren't getting sued for downloading the file. You are getting sued for uploading it in the PROCESS of downloading it (i.e. torrents). That is not much of a defense...
Aren't those the same guys that keep trying to flag and bring down parody clips of their movies on youtube while the same movies are uploaded completely there.
These are usually scare tactics with no bite behind them, hoping to get people to either pay up or say something that implicates them. I'd obviously research it a bit more but, if no contrary evidence comes up I'd just ignore it.
Realistic worse case scenario is that they do decide to take you to court: at that point you reach out with a lawyer and ask to settle.
This sounds similar to something I read three years ago about a UK law firm sending out letters with a 350 pound fine accusing people of downloading some Pinball game no one had heard of. It had the same threatening tone of pay up or we'll take you to court. I think it ended up being just bully tactics to make those afraid cough up some money.
Here it is, it's very long, it starts off with one person but as it went on more people started to put their hands up saying they received the same threats/letters and that none of them had downloaded such game.
Maybe yours is something similar? Regardless good luck, seek help, and do a lot of research. I hope everything turns out alright for you.
On September 30 2010 22:28 Zergneedsfood wrote: I've gotten letters like these in the mail.
They were all scams. If you haven't downloaded the file in question, and if you try to trace back the organization that sent you the letter, it should tell you if this is a scam or not.
I have a feeling it's a scam. I went through the exact same feeling when I received the e-mail, but a little advice and research helped me prove that there was nothing to worry about.
Haha dude if it's a freaking e-mail how could it be anything other then a scam?
Apparently other people don't know....so yeah.
I dont know from where you guys think there are e-mails involved, this is all via Post. A 20+ pages letter.
I have been reading that this is happening to other people here in germany by the same law firm and the same company and curiously the same amount...
that last fact makes me think that they made up that sum, because if they really are charging me for how long i shared the files (thus calculating the "damages" they "suffered") then everybody should have a different amount.
I also read some of the links posted here with the other law firm from UK and there is clearly something fishy going on with some law firms and this type of letters, since there are demands on the market for programmers to create applications that store information about people who use torrents so the law firms can buy this information as "evidence", and making money out of those people who get scared/ just want to get rid of them quickly and pay the sum.
I do not take this lightly. I am going to consult the lawyer tomorrow and prepare everything but it seems to be part of the same scheme.
as i mentioned before i do agree with the concept of "i worked hard for this i deserve a reward" but precisely because of this kind of things (how companies exploit the law to get more money than what they have) is why i am against the current copyright laws. This kind of things need to be made illegal, and the copyright laws need to be actualized to match our current modernized state.
7 pages of advice from people who don't know German law. Great.
I got to go but real quick: Generally correct is that these firm send thousands of Abmahnungen (cease and desist) for profit. While a shady business in itself this is perfectly legal in Germany.
In simple cases of copyright infringement the lawyer fee they can ask for is limited to 100 Euro. Further googling for $97a practices should give you a better idea.
Edit: Can you clarify are they asking for 1000 in damages or for 1000 in lawyer compensation?
On October 01 2010 13:01 zatic wrote: 7 pages of advice from people who don't know German law. Great.
I got to go but real quick: Generally correct is that these firm send thousands of Abmahnungen (cease and desist) for profit. While a shady business in itself this is perfectly legal in Germany.
In simple cases of copyright infringement the lawyer fee they can ask for is limited to 100 Euro. Further googling for $97a practices should give you a better idea.
Edit: Can you clarify are they asking for 1000 in damages or for 1000 in lawyer compensation?
hi.. 500 € for the lawyer and 456 € for the "damages"
you shouldn't listen to most of these responses simply because american law is way different from german law...
as far as i know, in austria (our laws are more equal) there is no legal way (or a way a court would accept) to get the info that you downloaded a movie. simply because the isp does not give any law firm access to their database... but you should definitely follow blomsterjohn advice and call your isp, this is a very cheap way that could solve your problem.
and on a sidenote, i'm pretty sure that if u have more than one pc behind your router its even more difficult to sue you because they need to prove that the person they want to sue sat behind the pc and downloaded the file at time xy.
On October 01 2010 23:29 gugarutz wrote: you shouldn't listen to most of these responses simply because american law is way different from german law...
Great advice so far.
However Austrian law is also different from German law so the rest of your post is just as wrong as what everyone else wrote so far. Everyone: If you don't know German IP law don't reply. Who do you think you are helping?
I think this quote from Fanatacist is most relevant here:
On August 12 2009 02:13 fanatacist wrote: Oh ______(curse), I wish I could help TL, but I only know _______(noun), and I am pretty in my confident in my abilities there, but my knowledge is completely lacking in _______(noun). I also don't have a lot of _______(noun), so I might not be able to ______(verb). _______(exclamation)!
RaptorX: Well at least the 500 Euro lawyer fee is more than they can ask for. As I said do some research on $97a and the current state of Abmahnungen. On the German part of the Internet that is, I am afraid TL won't be of much help.
My guess is that you'll have to send them a "modifizierte Unterlassungserklärung" and then wait to see if they drag you to court. But let's see what your lawyer says.
Very likely their evidence is weak and they use this sort of method to scare you into paying because they know that if they have to drag you to court they are most likely not gonna win and it will be costly for them even if they think they have a chance.
I would recommend you do the following: Do not pay their fine Do not try to contact them, instead contact a lawyer to get his oppinion on the "case" and from this point on only talk to the company through your lawyer or follow his instructions.
Although the amount of money in question is pretty low, I am pretty positive they can't just fine you like that and threaten with a lawsuit if you don't agree. A screenshot with your ip linked to some title of a movie is not evidence...
My take is: 1. You deny downloading the movie. 2. You reply to them stating facts such as there are multiple computers behind your router and the not so fact of 'One or more computers received a virus infection during that period of time'. 3. Throw in random crap about, if you ever find presence of the so called 'download content' in any shape and form, you will immediately delete it and remove any copies of it from your computer.
the german legalese you posted earlier states that you are not beinag accused of dowloading the file, but rather uploading it (offering it as a dowload via bittorrent). i think that this is a side effect from how filesharing works (you are dowloading it from someone else and all the parts already saved on your disk are being downlaoded from other people), but it is also a much more serious infringement then just dowloading it.
They are also not claiming that you, specifically, did it, but that you are responsible for it. there have recently been rulings here that say that as owner of the network, you are responsible for its security and for making sure that your infrastructure is not abused by thrid parties to commit crimes, thus making you liable for all infringements commited using your IP. this means that having multiple computers behind your router might not protect you as long as you are the anschlussinhaber.
the matter is very complicated and i would not take any steps without a professional's advice.
EPT
