EPTLies of Fahrenheit 9/11
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Excalibur_Z
United States12269 Posts
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MadduX
United States515 Posts
edit: nevermind. had just glanced at the old thread before | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12269 Posts
On June 26 2004 20:17 MadduX wrote: I remember a topic earlier where you praised Michael Moore. Did you just now figure out hes not a conservative like yourself? Find me that thread, I'd sure love to read it. | ||
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MadduX
United States515 Posts
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Chris307
3095 Posts
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useLess
United States4781 Posts
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NonYold
United States2814 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
- Moore never said liberal politicians never get made up. I don't understand how them getting made up for television is a "lie" to you. It's weak you have to focus on something like Bush getting made up for television, and it's weak you think someone shouldn't include it in their movie. If Moore showed a clip of Clinton being made up then it'd be okay? I highly doubt the public really thinks only Bush and his administration are the only ones treated like that before going on TV. Weak. - His point with Bush's vacation wasn't that Bush was the only president to take vacations, it was that Bush did not spend enough time in the office and did not spend enough time working as the president. His point is that had Bush paid more attention, maybe 9/11 would have been avoided (debatable). I don't think anyone really believes Bush is the only president to take a vacation or have a dog. - Again, you say the close relationship between the Bush family and the Saudi royal family is troubling, but "it's nothing new". Well it's new to many ignorant Americans, so that alone is worth putting it in the film. I think Moore was trying to establish that the Saudis were investing heavily in the Bushs way before he got elected and thus somewhat influence his decision making. - One of your points against his movie is that he does not mention the opposition to drilling in Alaska? As if this is the straight factual cause of all of the oil problems, and as if Moore just blatantly "omitted it" like it was some huge liberal cover up. It's a liberal movie, OBVIOUSLY he will not mention things with a conservative slant like "Stopping drilling in Alaska is the reason we have to go to war." Omission of conservative viewpoint DOES NOT equal lie. - About the musical choice, Moore was making the point that "The Roof is on Fire" and Drowning Pool's "Bodies" are not songs that reflect the attitude that the American soldiers should enter Iraq with. As for "shamelessly dishonoring our brave soldiers" was a huge portion of the film not dedicated to a soldier's family? Was the montage sequence at the end not supportive of sending the soldiers back home? I thought Moore handled these issues respectfully. Did you enter the movie theater listening to angry music or something, because I thought the story about the family was touching rather than dishonorable? - The segment with the Al-Jazeera microphone spoke volumes about why the Iraqis want our troops out. Just because the clip was from a network that may be sympathetic to terrorists does not dull the message sent by the Iraqi people. - He showed Britney Spears as the prime example of ignorance. It's actually anti-American NOT to question the government and exercise your freedom of speech. He omitted stars speaking out against the war. So what? It does not diminish his point--what Britney was saying was stupid and ignorant. - "Moore exploits the grief of Lila Lipscomb, the mother of a soldier who died in Iraq. She denounces Bush and the War. But there are many mothers and relatives of US soldiers, alive and dead, who served there who dont agree with her. Dont look for them in this agit-prop film." Okay so he made a film that used an example of a woman who supported his point. And he didn't include the opposite side!! OH NO!! Again, OMISSION OF THE SIDE HE DOESN'T BELIEVE IN DOES NOT HAVE TO BE INCLUDED IN HIIIIIIIIIS MOVIE. - As for Moore being anti-American or the liberals smelling, that's your own opinion. Freedom of speech and criticism of the administration when you believe them to be wrong or oppresive are the MOST american things you can do. | ||
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wtfwjd
United States226 Posts
Maddux: A documentary is supposed to be at least somewhat objective. I would say that moore is downright dangerous if it weren't for the fact that Americans with any power whatsoever know better than to listen to that fluff. The other 98% (myself included)don't matter anyways Excalibur: You make good points but it saddens me that you paid to go see his movie. | ||
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ejai63
United States2101 Posts
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pyogenes
Brazil1401 Posts
On June 26 2004 20:49 useless wrote: yea.. thats how it is done. michael more doesnt do this though..i thought you were supposed to show the opposition and then use your stand to counter that argument when youre doing persuasion... | ||
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DJEtterStyle
United States2766 Posts
On June 26 2004 20:21 MadduX wrote: In any persuasive argument you dont give both sides.. you show your side and your side alone. If you're trying to persuade someone, one of the KEY THINGS that you do is address other opinions and show why yours is superior. Just avoiding the other side is practically an admission of your inability to refute it. In other news... Form your own opinion based upon what makes good, logical sense to you. Oh, and in the words of a great political humorist whose name I've forgotten... Don't vote; it just encourages them. ^^ | ||
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TeCh)PsylO
United States3552 Posts
Don't vote; it just encourages them. lol | ||
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Clutch3
United States1344 Posts
Just to cover the Iraq-Saddam connections. The claim that Ramzi Yousef was working for Iraq was proved false. Paul Wolfowitz tried hard to make that stick but the FBI found "no evidence" for it: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4799686/ http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0312.bergen.html The meeting of Atta and Iraqi intelligence did not happen. This has become more-or-less common knowledge, and was confirmed by the 9/11 commission: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/18/politics/18DEBA.html?ex=1088481600&en=dea815d44a8b00b6&ei=5070 http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A29957-2002Mar14 As for the Salman Pak thing, there have been a few Iraqi exiles who have made these claims. There's no hard evidence either way on that. The rest of the "ties" are just grasping at straws. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/02/02/wirq202.xml As for all the stories about congressmen applauding at dinners where Muslim children carried out mock throat-slittings, well, I guess you can believe what you want. I hope that Republicans aren't so pissed off at Democrats that they think they get off on that sort of thing. I, for one, think it's funny that Moore put Britney on there supporting Bush. Ever since I can remember Republicans have been getting political mileage out of mocking Hollywood liberals supporting the left. Now they get a little bit of their own medicine back. I can't speak to the rest of it as I haven't seen the movie yet. Moore is great at bringing things to the forefront, and he does make points you won't see from the mainstream media, but his work certainly doesn't qualify as impartial journalism. | ||
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MarChxLordaerOn
United States49 Posts
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Eniram
Sudan3166 Posts
On June 26 2004 20:21 MadduX wrote: And nothing you said was a lie. Everything he said is true, but he just doesn't give the other side of the argument. In any persuasive argument you dont give both sides.. you show your side and your side alone. Michael Moore isn't an idiot, he's not going to let the people decide for themselves, he is going to show them and tell them exactly what he wants them to think. No, in a persuasive argument you must acknowledge the existence of another side. Focusing only on your opinion makes you're argument uncredible. | ||
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MarChxLordaerOn
United States49 Posts
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itzme_petey
United States1400 Posts
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mensrea
Canada5062 Posts
On June 26 2004 21:11 ejai63 wrote: source? did you write this? Take a wild guess.  | ||
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Gryffindor_us
United States5606 Posts
On June 25 2004 23:44 Excalibur_Z wrote: I do. Because it's lies and propaganda. I should have a list ready by Monday. | ||
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