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In a recent test the Thor will never use it's ground to air attack against colossi:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YgDA8.jpg)
The colossi are in range of the air attacks shown by the thor's ability to target the phoenixes. However Colossi do take splash damage from the thor's air attacks, shown by the damaged colossus.
Another picture demonstrating that the thor cannot use it's GtA Attack on the colossus:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nwPYA.jpg)
The thor at the top is obviously within range of the colossus. The colossi near the bottom of the screen only took damage from the warp prisms. The thors cannot attack the colossi.
Assuming the thors were able to target the colossi it would only mean a small difference in certain situations. This was simulated by having one thor Friendly fire a raven while another was sent directly to attack a thor. The colossi would have still taken the same number of shots before it died. Only in certain situations would the volley of an air attack be able to change the outcome. For example if one had supporting units them 20 damage might be just enough to allow for units to kill the colossi one attack sooner. If the air attack is canceled after only 2 missles are fired the thor's dps is even slightly higher. If you'll look at the following diagram:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1GGLX.png)
It's just a small example of when that 10 damage from those 2 missles will make a difference. Very unlikely to happen but still possible with the right numbers.
That being said if thors ever gained the ability to attack air it would not mean much:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BPgpD.jpg)
(The top thor attacked the thor directly while the bottom wasted a volley on a raven, both thors still killed the colossi at the same time, the bottom thor is in the middle of his second attack).
While on the discussion of thor vs colossi here's some basic math:
Assuming the colossus has 0/0 armor/shield upgrades.
A 0/0 thor will kill a colossus 1v1 in 5.85 full attacks. Rounds up to 6 attacks or 12 shots.
A 1/0 thor will kill a colossus 1v1 in 5.36 full attacks. Rounds up to 5.5 attacks or 11 shots.
A 2/0 thor will kill a colossus 1v1 in 4.83 full attacks. In other words a full 5 attacks.
A 3/0 thor will kill a colossus 1v1 in 4.22 full attacks. Shields do take a full 78 damage per attack while health takes only 76. So a 3 attack thor will only use 9 shots on 0/0 colossus, 4.5 attacks and will attack another target a bit sooner than a 2/0 thor (difference is marginal).
As we can see here every level of attack upgrade (on an unupgraded colossus so take it with a grain of salt) reduces the number of shots by 1. Only with +2 upgrade will a full round of attacks be knocked off.
NOTE: This is rough work to be tested later. Also remember that protoss upgrades apply to either the shield or health of the target so whatever upgrade a toss gets will only provide a boost to 3/5, 2/5 of the Colossi's health/shields respectively.
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Never really considered this...but overall very informative. Thanks !
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Ooooh, interesting! Great find!
Question: Do you now if upgrades will change the outcome between GtA & GtG?
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My suggestion was to allow Thors to use the GTA attack versus Collosi, but only if the player manually targets. That way, it doesnt slow down a Thor you're trying to move into the heat of battle doing a relatively weak attack.
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I suppose you could take advantage of this by flying vikings over colossi and target firing them 1 by 1. this would only be useful if it was a critical mass situation though
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On September 08 2010 09:10 Stropheum wrote:
I suppose you could take advantage of this by flying vikings over colossi and target firing them 1 by 1. this would only be useful if it was a critical mass situation though
I don't think that would ever really be ideal, because vikings do more damage to colossi, and moving them right next to the colossus would not only prevent your viking from firing, but it would damage your own unit as well. Plus colossi are too big to really make any splash damage effective against them in numbers.
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That's interesting...
Not that it matters in the game context, but does a photon cannon use GtA or GtG attack vs colossus? Just curious.
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On September 08 2010 10:02 Confuse wrote:
That's interesting...
Not that it matters in the game context, but does a photon cannon use GtA or GtG attack vs colossus? Just curious.
Cannons only have one attack that targets both air and ground, so it doesn't matter. It's not like in SCBW. 
![[image loading]](http://gyazo.com/4897a2ccab5d01453482d257701a8de9.png)
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in campaign, do upgraded goliaths use both attacks on collosi?
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On September 08 2010 09:07 FetusFondler wrote:
Ooooh, interesting! Great find!
Question: Do you now if upgrades will change the outcome between GtA & GtG?
I know this isn't addressing your question but since thors can't use their air attacks against colossi i thought I'd answer the more interesting question on how upgrades affect thors vs colossi. :p
Assuming the colossus has 0/0 armor/shield upgrades.
A 0/0 thor will kill a colossus 1v1 in 5.85 full attacks. Rounds up to 6 attacks or 12 shots.
A 1/0 thor will kill a colossus 1v1 in 5.36 full attacks. Rounds up to 5.5 attacks or 11 shots.
A 2/0 thor will kill a colossus 1v1 in 4.83 full attacks. In other words a full 5 attacks.
A 3/0 thor will kill a colossus 1v1 in 4.22 full attacks. Shields do take a full 78 damage per attack while health takes only 76. So a 3 attack thor will only use 9 shots on 0/0 colossus, 4.5 attacks and will attack another target a bit sooner than a 2/0 thor (difference is marginal).
As we can see here every level of attack upgrade (on an unupgraded colossus so take it with a grain of salt) reduces the number of shots by 1. Only with +2 upgrade will a full round of attacks be knocked off.
NOTE: This is rough works, I will throughly test it later tonight. Also remember that protoss upgrades apply to either the shield or health of the target so whatever upgrade a toss gets will only provide a boost to 3/5, 2/5 of the Colossi's health/shields respectively.
MORE TO COME!
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Did you try to use hold position on the thors and have a collossi in range of AA but not in range of GtA?
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On September 08 2010 11:41 sikyon wrote:
Did you try to use hold position on the thors and have a collossi in range of AA but not in range of GtA?
Yes. They will not use their GtA attack on the colossi.
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EPT
