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Learning Korean: A Broad How To

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Arrian
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States889 Posts
June 30 2010 00:58 GMT
#1
I guess I should preface this with a huge disclaimer: this post isn't going to teach you Korean. There's only one person who can teach you Korean, and that's you. This post will, however, tell you, if you are really motivated to learn Korean (or any other language), the fastest and most accurate way to learn. As a primary point of reference I'll be using English, because that's the language of this board.

I've noticed there's a good amount of interest in learning Korean here on this board, which would seem rather obvious, but there's a lot of curiosity about Korean just as a language in general, aside from the 15 some threads that have been made with questions/comments about learning Korean, so after I just spent 2 weeks with a second language acquisition (henceforth SLA) expert in Asian languages (primarily Cantonese, but others as well) I figured I ought to make a thread that would answer a lot of these questions. I'm going to try and condense this as much as possible, but I'll go into considerable depth in spoilers beneath the relevant topics. So here's the good, the bad, and the ugly about SLA:

The good

Learning another language is a rewarding task that opens a whole new culture, people, and way of looking at things for you. The other good news is if you're bilingual or if you've spent many years in acquisition of a second language (linguists who study SLA make a sharp distinction between a second language acquired in childhood and a second language acquired in adulthood for reasons I will explain below) you'll find your third language coming to you rather easily.

The bad

Presumably, the task you've chosen is Korean. The U.S government has classified Korean as a category 4 language, a language so different from English they estimate 2200 classroom hours to pass as a competent speaker. I have many issues with this idea, which gets into some serious linguistics jargon. I would be happy to indulge the curious mind but as this post will already be very long I'll stop short. Nevertheless, it is still a difficult language to learn.

Why? Because Korean is what is known as a language isolate, that is, a language with no known relations to other languages, and Korean itself remains something of a mystery to linguists in terms of its history. Korean has a number of sounds, luckily only a few, but unluckily for you, primarily vowels, that are not native to English or other European languages. The consonants aren't hard but drawing distinctions in regards the vowels won't be simple. Korean syntax is not of a particularly difficult variety (not like Turkish) but it is very foreign to English speakers.

+ Show Spoiler +
In terms of syntax, Korean will be foreign to nearly everyone unless you're Finnish. Korean employs a case system, a concept foreign (but still attested) in English. What this means is that Korean, instead of employing extremely strict word order (like English), affixes morphemes (small units of meaning like the English plural suffix -s) to words to show what the word is doing in the sentence. English used to use this system, and if you ever remember your 1st grade teacher teaching you the difference between who and whom, that's what cases are, who being used only for subjects and whom for the object of the sentence and other grammatical functions.

In languages with case systems, the word order tends to be more flexible. Korean, however, tends to be Subject-Object-Verb more by convention than necessity though it is supposedly the most common. Native speakers might switch it up to emphasize elements of a sentence by changing the word order. It's nice to stick to the fairly easy SOV word order when learning, and playing with other word orders as learning progresses.


The ugly

SLA is very difficult. There's no getting around that. Programs like 'Rosetta Stone' (tirade in first spoiler below) and the various language tapes floating around there can't teach you a language. SLA experts agree on three major factors in accurate, fast acquisition of a second language (in no particular order): motivation, interaction with native speakers, natural aptitude. Motivation is a huge part; if you're not trying to learn a language and staying committed and practicing, there's no way you're going to learn. All those interviews with IdrA seem to indicate this is his problem in learning Korean. Interaction with native speakers is the most important thing in learning a second language. Living in Seoul for 6 months with a Korean family and no access to English would teach you Korean very fast, because you're forced to communicate.

Finally, the murky idea of aptitude has been strongly advocated by some SLA experts, others insist it is a product of native intelligence. There is some evidence in linguistic savants and plenty of anecdotes, but it's a factor you can't do anything about. My parents both acquired second languages swiftly and French came rather easily for me, and I knew the opposite situation for some close friends, but it could just have to do with motivation, etc. It's hard to pin down, but people have tried to measure it (like the U.S Foreign Services, State Department, and Department of Defense) in tests like the MLAT and DLAB.

+ Show Spoiler +
Don't buy 'Rosetta Stone.' I've heard their ads, the whole 'same way you learned your first language...by matching pictures to words' is such a silly idea I can't even begin to describe it. Blind people learn language, so clearly it's not just 'matching pictures to words.' You learn your first language by intuiting the stimuli around you, by making guesses and generalizations which you refine and deduce from more evidence. There are even claims (in fact, you might even call it main stream) that language is 'instinctual,' that the rules of the various grammars of the world are hard wired into biases of language learning in infants. The truth that everyone does agree on, however, is that you can't go back to learning languages the way you did when you were an infant.

Only buy tapes or programs (still don't buy Rosetta Stone) if you have no other way to learn the language, and you are using them as practice or to get you started off for a serious engagement to learn the language. Otherwise, they are a waste. I can't reiterate enough how much you need to interact with native speakers.


+ Show Spoiler +
Some hypotheses state that SLA gets harder as you get older, as more neurons commit to other things, and as fluid intelligence wanes, etc. There is no contention over the drop off in language learning ability after about the age of 6 or 7 after which it becomes much harder to learn a second language, but there is significant disagreement as to whether that ability remains relatively static after that period or whether it continues to decrease at a significant rate.


Of those I mentioned, there are two factors you can control in learning Korean: your motivation, and interaction with native speakers. So, answering the question I started with, how do you learn Korean? Be serious about learning the language; make a Korean friend, or better yet, study abroad in Korea. Actively engage speakers of Korean in their language. Make a conscious effort, and most of them will be thrilled. From what I hear, they have pride in their language, and are impressed by Westerners who can speak it. You'll be surprised by how quickly you can pick it up if you really really try.
Writersator arepo tenet opera rotas
Rekrul
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Korea (South)17174 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-30 01:26:27
June 30 2010 01:09 GMT
#2
SLA experts agree on three major factors in accurate, fast acquisition of a second language (in no particular order): motivation, interaction with native speakers, natural aptitude.


Starcraft player in a Korean night club.

On June 30 2010 09:58 Arrian wrote:
Of those I mentioned, there are two factors you can control in learning Korean: your motivation, and interaction with native speakers. So, answering the question I started with, how do you learn Korean? Be serious about learning the language; make a Korean friend, or better yet, study abroad in Korea. Actively engage speakers of Korean in their language. Make a conscious effort, and most of them will be thrilled. From what I hear, they have pride in their language, and are impressed by Westerners who can speak it. You'll be surprised by how quickly you can pick it up if you really really try.


Koreans definitely get impressed by any non-Korean with Korean speaking ability. But more so than actually just knowing words and grammar being a true good Korean speaker requires ALOT of social experience with Koreans. If you don't know the culture and how they think about stuff it doesn't matter how book-smart you are in the language, you will come across as a fool. Korean culture + cute language inuendos can allow you to say something that wouldn't be funny in english in Korean and have a whole room ROFL'ing and staring at you as if you're some angel sent from heaven (or demon from hell depending on what you said).

P.S. Whenever I see a non-korean that has been here over 2 years and can only speak like 10 phrases I lol really really hard. Basically every single english teacher.
why so 진지해?
Snakenah
Profile Joined June 2010
3 Posts
June 30 2010 01:14 GMT
#3
--- Nuked ---
awu25
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2003 Posts
June 30 2010 01:24 GMT
#4
just know that playguuuuuuuuuu=plague
jax1492
Profile Joined November 2009
United States1632 Posts
June 30 2010 01:32 GMT
#5
On June 30 2010 10:24 awu25 wrote:
just know that playguuuuuuuuuu=plague


lol, if learning Korean was that simple ..... i can imagine you yelling plaguuuuu around seoul and the looks you will get.
LaLuSh
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden2358 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-30 01:56:58
June 30 2010 01:43 GMT
#6
Turkish syntax is varied and difficult?

Never really thought about it (speak it at home), but come to think of it you can rearrange word orders in a sentence really freely. Plus everything can be mashed into a verb so you don't even have to use subject/object.

Are you a linguist arrian? I find these sort of threads real interesting. Please do elaborate about what's so complex about turkish syntax. You aroused my interest
Turbovolver
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia2394 Posts
June 30 2010 01:43 GMT
#7
On June 30 2010 10:24 awu25 wrote:
just know that playguuuuuuuuuu=plague

Pectory = Factory

is the best one I've learned from Starcraft.
The original Bogus fan.
TurbulentTurtle
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada230 Posts
June 30 2010 03:27 GMT
#8
I just learned Korea.
Rkie
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States1278 Posts
June 30 2010 03:37 GMT
#9
i currently am learning spanish and german in school, and during my free time, i wanted to learn korean, but i was too busy and quit, maybe i should start again since i am so bored over summer
Katsuge
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore7730 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-30 03:40:40
June 30 2010 03:40 GMT
#10
i thought korean deviated from CHinese language?

just like Japanese, too.
김태연 | 정은지 | 아이유 |  한효주 | 이민정 <3 -|||- 소녀시대 에이핑크 사랑해!
Snakenah
Profile Joined June 2010
3 Posts
June 30 2010 03:42 GMT
#11
--- Nuked ---
Quesadilla
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States1814 Posts
June 30 2010 03:44 GMT
#12
I've met a bunch of teachers here who can't even read yet, but have managed to live here 2+ years.
Unreal.

I'm a teacher, but I hate all of them and slightly pissed at myself for being associated. But, it's a consolation knowing that I can wake up and not be any of them.

Oh yeah, not to mention, there's not one other English teacher in my language classes. Says something about the motivation here. It's about the money (with benefits monetized is only around $45k-$55k), meeting other retards, and getting pissed drunk in a foreigner district--it has nothing to do with Korea for most of them.

I currently type with one in arms distance. Fuuuuu-------
Make a lot of friends. Wear good clothes. Drink good beer. Love a nice girl.
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
June 30 2010 03:45 GMT
#13
Is Korean really that isolated? There's a lot of shared words and similar grammatical systems with Japanese. When it comes to etymology it is heavily rooted in Chinese as well. I wasn't aware that linguists consider the Korean language to be isolated.
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
June 30 2010 03:48 GMT
#14
On June 30 2010 12:42 Snakenah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2010 12:40 Katsuge wrote:
i thought korean deviated from CHinese language?

just like Japanese, too.

You're fucking stupid. Would you mind describing what it's like to have Swine Flu.

How is he fucking stupid? Have you ever actually learned 한자 before? If you've ever even briefly touched upon hanja then you would know that the etymology of most Korean words is rooted in the written language that has originated from China.
McDonalds
Profile Joined March 2010
Liechtenstein2244 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-30 03:51:54
June 30 2010 03:49 GMT
#15
On June 30 2010 12:45 koreasilver wrote:
Is Korean really that isolated? There's a lot of shared words and similar grammatical systems with Japanese. When it comes to etymology it is heavily rooted in Chinese as well. I wasn't aware that linguists consider the Korean language to be isolated.


English contains many Latin words that came to it through French but they are definitely not in the same language family.

Edit: No, Indo-European doesn't count in this context.
High five :---)
lyk503
Profile Joined May 2009
United States261 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-30 03:50:23
June 30 2010 03:49 GMT
#16
A Korean king made the unique language back when there were dynasties, but of course, he borrowed from other languages.
z0mgz starcraft
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
June 30 2010 03:55 GMT
#17
On June 30 2010 12:49 McDonalds wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2010 12:45 koreasilver wrote:
Is Korean really that isolated? There's a lot of shared words and similar grammatical systems with Japanese. When it comes to etymology it is heavily rooted in Chinese as well. I wasn't aware that linguists consider the Korean language to be isolated.


English contains many Latin words that came to it through French but they are definitely not in the same language family.

Edit: No, Indo-European doesn't count in this context.

I guess you are right in that way then. I don't really have a clue with linguistics so this was quite surprising to me.

On June 30 2010 12:49 lyk503 wrote:
A Korean king made the unique language back when there were dynasties, but of course, he borrowed from other languages.

That's only the written language though. And even still, the etymology of words still remained almost concretely founded upon the written Chinese language. The Korean spoken language was always quite different from both Mandarin and Cantonese.
Thratur
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada917 Posts
June 30 2010 04:16 GMT
#18
About Rosetta Stone : even though I do agree that it's probably not the most useful tool, and it's not very complete either, it is actually a very interesting and fun start to learn a language. I mean : it feels like a videogame. You won't learn enough out of it, and you may get frustrated at times, but it's still a very interesting and "fun" experience, unlike reading through a textbook.

Of course it's damn expensive though...
FuRong
Profile Joined April 2010
New Zealand3089 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-30 04:45:55
June 30 2010 04:35 GMT
#19
A few points:

On June 30 2010 12:49 lyk503 wrote:
A Korean king made the unique language back when there were dynasties, but of course, he borrowed from other languages.


He didn't "make" the language...King Sojeon only created 한글 (hangul), the Korean alphabet. You make it sound like people just communicated with hand signals or mime before this guy came along and mysteriously "invented" Korean =P

Secondly, I don't know the statistics but a LOT of words in Korean are based in Chinese, especially a lot of "higher level" vocab. I speak Chinese and it's a huge help when learning vocabulary because a lot of the words are so similar that you will never forget them after seeing or reading them only once (eg: 传统 --> 전통). It's like learning the word for "restaurant" in French for English speakers (hint: it's the same).

Thirdly, in defence of Rosetta Stone. I think RS is actually pretty good software, but it's certainly not worth paying the exorbitant price they charge for it. But having said that, you can acquire it for free through teh internets if you know where to look (hint: Google) and it's a good place to start for beginners. Even if you only spend an hour a day you can easily and quickly learn a lot of the most basic vocab that you need to get started (colours, clothes, body parts, days of the week, simple objects etc). But I agree with you that paying for RS is not a good idea.
Don't hate the player, hate the game
Cow
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada1104 Posts
June 30 2010 04:35 GMT
#20
When I first saw the title I was intrigued.
The thread wasn't what I was hoping for, but it turned out to be helpful regardless, well done!

I was unaware of Korean being a language isolate, so I learned something too from this thread. I always figured that at least the written language of Korean and Japanese have their origins placed in Chinese. Spoken, I have no idea about though, ahah, so it probably applies to this.
R.I.P. Nujabes ♫
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