• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:32
CEST 03:32
KST 10:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview17Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7
Community News
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event12Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster12Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week4Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer12
StarCraft 2
General
HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Hybrid setting keep reverting. Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster HSC 27 players & groups
Tourneys
HomeStory Cup 27 (June 27-29) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event $200 Biweekly - StarCraft Evolution League #1 SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House
Brood War
General
Soma Explains: JaeDong's Defense vs Bisu BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 Preliminary Maps BW General Discussion NaDa's Body
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - WB Finals & LBR3
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Social coupon sites
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
NBA General Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Game Sound vs. Music: The Im…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 613 users

[MSL] Equality

Forum Index > News
65 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 Next All

[MSL] Equality

Text byAtrioc
December 31st, 2009 09:14 GMT
[image loading]


Jaedong, Flash, Kal, Hwasin, Best, Light, Kwanro, and Stats. Out of nearly two hundred other players, these 8 have clawed their way through opponent after opponent to make it to the Bo5 stage. Just for this, every player here deserves to be applauded - it certainly was not an easy road. Unfortunately for some of them, however, this is where it comes to an end. So cheer your hearts out for your favorite player, because while making the quarterfinals is commendable, it is easily forgotten. A trophy is much harder to ignore.

But first, let's take a quick look at the Ro16 victories that got them this far:

Ro16 Results:

(P)BeSt 2-0 (T)Canata
(T)Light 2-0 (Z)hero
(Z)Kwanro 2-1 (T)Bogus
(T)Hwasin 2-0 (P)GuemChi
(T)Flash 2-1 (Z)ZerO
(P)Kal 2-0 (Z)Saint
(Z)Jaedong 2-0 (Z)FireFist
(P)Stats 2-1 (P)JangBi

Two things to take note of here: first, in nearly every case the "better" player came out on top, with the possible exception of Stats vs Jangbi (who is an absolute PvP monster when he's actually on his game). It's always annoying when a person advances from the Ro16 to the Ro8 only to face an even weaker opponent because of all the sneaking by of lackluster players with some good days or cheesy builds - however, there doesn't seem to be a single instance of that here now. Every player is taking on a substantially stronger and more dangerous opponent in the Ro8 than they faced in the Ro16.

The second thing is the racial balance. As promised in the “Forget the Past” newspost, this is already way beyond the MSL of yesteryear. Whereas last season had a Ro8 consisting of five Zergs, two Terrans, and just one Protoss - the dreaded "Swarm Season" wherein ZvZ was forever on repeat - this season has managed to tone down the Zerg dominance without going overboard and knocking them out altogether (see what happened to Protoss after the short lived reign of the 6 dragons). With a 2 Z, 3 T, 3 P split this time around - there really is no better word to sum up the current Nate MSL than "Equality".

One thing I love about the MSL compared to the OSL is the decision to reseed the Ro8 based on KeSPA rank (one thing I hate is the split Bo5's, but I'll have to take the good with the bad). As you can see in the bracket below, it almost always sets up a more exciting finals possibility than not doing it, and in this case especially. I don't want to jinx it, as with the ever-present curse of Jaedong and Bisu never meeting in a Bo5, but I really do think - if everything goes well - we might see a Jaedong Flash finals here, which would be a programing event along the lines of the Boxer/Yellow match up in the very first MSL.

Of course, knowing our luck, we'll end up with Hwasin vs Light or something. Let's drop the subject. Here's the bracket:

[image loading]





(Z)Jaedong
ZvP ELO: 2234
Last Ten: 8-2

vs

(P)Stats
PvZ ELO: 2094
Last Ten: 7-3

Choices shouldn’t be this easy to make this deep in a tournament, but with a Ro8 as star-studded as this MSL, Stats stands out like a sore thumb. His run so far has consisted of barely making it out of group stages by beating a slumping July twice (losing to Jaedong in the middle in an absolute rape) and then barely making it past a slumping Jangbi in the Ro16. Now I can’t completely rule him out – Bisu, after all, entered his first MSL under similar conditions (losing to his first Bo5 opponent, Nal_Ra, in the group stages, beating mediocre players to advance) and ended up making history when he won the whole thing. Could Stats surprise us all and do the same? Unlikely – there simply is no indication in the games themselves that he is more than just a capable modern toss: for him to actually take 3 games away from the best ZvP in the world right now is too big of a mental leap.

Jaedong 3-0, possibly 3-1 if he does the "lose the first game" thing


(T)Hwasin
TvP ELO: 2040
Last Ten: 5-5

vs.

(P)Kal
PvT ELO: 2147
Last Ten: 7-3


I watched both of these players last five games to really try to get a feel for who is going to win this, and it basically boils down to how impressive you think it is that Hwasin stomped Guemchi 4-0, because other than those games he looked pretty limited. If Kal plays this at a Stork-like level, I really don't see Hwasin capable of elevating his game (especially in a Bo5, where he is a notorious choker). I simply cant bet against Kal here, especially when hes playing so strong lately. However, because some of the maps seem to have a slight Terran lean to them, and Hwasin is still a fully capable Terran, I predict he will take the game on Fighting Spirit (a map Kal lost to Really on) and lose the other three.

Kal 3-1


(Z)Kwanro
ZvT ELO: 2110
Last Ten: 5-5

vs.

(T)Light
TvZ ELO: 2139
Last Ten: 6-4


These guys are both similarly skilled and have very entertaining and compatible styles for this match up: Light plays a very conservative, standard bio-oriented TvZ, much like Flash, but unlike Flash he doesn't play it nearly perfectly enough to make Kwanro's hyper-aggressive off-balance Zerg builds useless (Hell, even Flash lost to Kwanro in the last MSL, though he is much improved now). I think if everything goes smoothly, the comfortable Terran maps and Light's solid play will strangle Kwanro out, but if he gets any kind of mental advantage (say a Game 1 win with an early pool build or 2 hat lurker) I really think Light's tendency to do poorly in the later stages of starleagues will kick in and Kwanro can pull out a victory, much like he did vs an on fire Iris 3-2 in the previous MSL. As a side note, despite my excitement for this series, neither of these players has a chance in hell of winning the whole MSL.

Light 3-1, but if it goes to a 5th game I think Kwanro will win it 3-2.


(T)Flash
TvP ELO: 2186
Last Ten: 5-5

vs.

(P)BeSt
PvT ELO: 2181
Last Ten: 8-2


This is easily the most anticipated Quarterfinals series, and the number one question on everybody's mind is: just how good is Flash's current TvP? This is the guy that practically invented the matchup as it's played today, and yet recent losses (and a very poor record against Best in general) are shaking his image as the Goliath-wielding destroyer of Aiur. If he comes as prepared as he is capable of being, then I simply have to give the series to him because I stand by the belief that a Bo5 will go to the stronger player, and Flash - when playing at his peak - is that player. However, with his heavy schedule and emphasis on the OSL, there is no guarantee that the real Ultimate Weapon will be showing up at all. Best, for his part, is playing amazing PvT recently and of course has the added distinction of never having lost to Flash and being one of the few Protoss who could take him down consistently. This one is almost too close to call, but I'll side with the TvP master for now.

FlaSh 3-2


Thanks for reading!
Stay tuned for more MSL coverage when we recap the Quarterfinals!

Facebook Twitter Reddit
Writerman what
sYz-Adrenaline
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States1850 Posts
December 31 2009 09:22 GMT
#2
Best > Flash, Lets go best, become what your name implies :D
Can you feel the rush?
Fx_
Profile Joined April 2008
503 Posts
December 31 2009 09:30 GMT
#3
gogo!!!
Power is your Intelligence
Kenpachi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States9908 Posts
December 31 2009 09:30 GMT
#4
Jaedong 3-0 ofc
Light dies alot and never won except to Killer whos 2-7 vs terran. 3-0 Kwanro
Hwasin's natural enemy is Kal 3-1 Kal
3-2 Flash because it can go either way
Nada's body is South Korea's greatest weapon.
Jakalo
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Latvia2350 Posts
December 31 2009 09:32 GMT
#5
For the Flash
Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be.
marcoso *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Brazil818 Posts
December 31 2009 09:34 GMT
#6
I didn't know they reseeded the ro8!
btw.. that banner is your doing? If yes, can I use it in the small vod thread (with proper credits)?
and thanks for the analyses!
MrWinkles
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States200 Posts
December 31 2009 09:35 GMT
#7
great writeup, thanks a bunch!
can't wait for the games
What does the knight do?
Atrioc
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States1865 Posts
December 31 2009 09:35 GMT
#8
On December 31 2009 18:34 marcoso wrote:
I didn't know they reseeded the ro8!
btw.. that banner is your doing? If yes, can I use it in the small vod thread (with proper credits)?
and thanks for the analyses!


Yeah definitely
Writerman what
MountainDewJunkie
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States10341 Posts
December 31 2009 09:39 GMT
#9
Not a lot of love for Stats. Poor bastard also has the luck to play Jaedong.

On December 31 2009 18:14 Atrioc wrote:
As a side note, despite my excitement for this series, neither of these players has a chance in hell of winning the whole MSL.

Pretty unprofessional, considering you don't know the who will make the semifinals.
[21:07] <Shock710> whats wrong with her face [20:50] <dAPhREAk> i beat it the day after it came out | <BLinD-RawR> esports is a giant vagina
Emlary
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
China3334 Posts
December 31 2009 09:41 GMT
#10
Cool design of the bracket!

I watched the group selection again today, which is more fun since we know who made Ro8 now. Do Jae Wook fighting! No one can throw you here and there next season.
No more SKT1, it's SKP2.
Vasoline73
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7801 Posts
December 31 2009 09:55 GMT
#11
Woot good stuff. I've missed TL's OSL and MSL writeups during the holidays and this delivers :D
Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
December 31 2009 09:55 GMT
#12
Just a tiny nitpick, but Bisu's quarterfinal opponent in his first MSL win wasn't Nal_ra, he played him in the semis.
29 fps
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States5724 Posts
December 31 2009 09:55 GMT
#13
jaedong 3-0, kal 3-1, light 3-2, flash 3-2
4v4 is a battle of who has the better computer.
Atrioc
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States1865 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-31 10:07:50
December 31 2009 10:01 GMT
#14
On December 31 2009 18:55 Jyvblamo wrote:
Just a tiny nitpick, but Bisu's quarterfinal opponent in his first MSL win wasn't Nal_ra, he played him in the semis.


Fixed, thanks.
I should have remembered that since he played sAviOr in the finals right afterwards.

On December 31 2009 18:39 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Not a lot of love for Stats. Poor bastard also has the luck to play Jaedong.


+ Show Spoiler [Stats vs Jaedong Game 1] +

I think after watching Game 1, my analysis of Stats was justified


On December 31 2009 18:39 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2009 18:14 Atrioc wrote:
As a side note, despite my excitement for this series, neither of these players has a chance in hell of winning the whole MSL.

Pretty unprofessional, considering you don't know the who will make the semifinals.


Just calling it as the games I've watched and the stats I've looked at lead me to believe. I like watching both of these player's games, but I don't think the winner of this series is going to make it past the semifinals, especially if their opponent is Flash, and certainly not the finals (with a good chance of seeing Jaedong).

Writerman what
danl9rm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States3111 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-31 10:02:26
December 31 2009 10:02 GMT
#15
"lose the first game thing" made me chuckle

he really does love being behind
"Science has so well established that the preborn baby in the womb is a living human being that most pro-choice activists have conceded the point. ..since the abortion proponents have lost the science argument, they are now advocating an existential one."
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
December 31 2009 10:10 GMT
#16
Light will roflstomp Kwanro. Kwanro is such an overrated player, and seomhow he has the tendency to do better than he should, so idk...

I really hope Best beats Flash, although Flash vs JD sounds good, we might as well see a 20 minutes finals which i wouldnt really like so, go Best!
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
danl9rm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States3111 Posts
December 31 2009 10:10 GMT
#17
On December 31 2009 19:01 Atrioc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2009 18:55 Jyvblamo wrote:
Just a tiny nitpick, but Bisu's quarterfinal opponent in his first MSL win wasn't Nal_ra, he played him in the semis.


Fixed, thanks.
I should have remembered that since he played sAviOr in the finals right afterwards.

Show nested quote +
On December 31 2009 18:39 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Not a lot of love for Stats. Poor bastard also has the luck to play Jaedong.


+ Show Spoiler [Stats vs Jaedong Game 1] +

I think after watching Game 1, my analysis of Stats was justified


Show nested quote +
On December 31 2009 18:39 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On December 31 2009 18:14 Atrioc wrote:
As a side note, despite my excitement for this series, neither of these players has a chance in hell of winning the whole MSL.

Pretty unprofessional, considering you don't know the who will make the semifinals.


Just calling it as the games I've watched and the stats I've looked at lead me to believe. I like watching both of these player's games, but I don't think the winner of this series is going to make it past the semifinals, especially if their opponent is Flash, and certainly not the finals (with a good chance of seeing Jaedong).



going to have to completely agree with.. everything.
i think it would be tough for anyone to argue except for the long-shot stuff that sometimes happens
"Science has so well established that the preborn baby in the womb is a living human being that most pro-choice activists have conceded the point. ..since the abortion proponents have lost the science argument, they are now advocating an existential one."
RamenStyle
Profile Joined September 2004
United States1929 Posts
December 31 2009 10:16 GMT
#18
Jaedong is going to crush Stats. Not that Stats is a bad player, but I assume JD will be angry after his PL 0-3 loss and might pay it with the KT toss.

Hwasin made it past the Ro16, and from time to time he can play great TvP when his timing syncs. However, I don't know if he can do it thru a Bo5, but maybe if he gains momentum, he will make it past his teammate. Anyways, odds are on Kal's side, but between teammates, you never know.

I think this series depends on how Light confronts it. I mean, it is obvious that Kwanro will be the ever-aggresive zerg who will keep bumping his head into the terran wall until it breaks down. His headbutts are capable of working even against even such a conservative player like Light, but I think he might need to play this extra defensively, especially in early game, just like Stork did.

Flash vs BeSt used to be a hell of a match up, both being macro monsters, but at this moment, Flash is like a macro godzilla and BeSt is more like the furry guy in the Disney movie. Still, if BeSt can bring some of his old self back, this is going to be some intense series.
ZenDeX
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Philippines2916 Posts
December 31 2009 10:16 GMT
#19
The graphics artist is certainly most creative!
Too_MuchZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Finland2818 Posts
December 31 2009 10:45 GMT
#20
Pretty good first MSL appearence from (P)BeSt
1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PiG Daily
23:50
Best Games
Harstem vs Lambo
Reynor vs ShowTime
Lambo vs Elazer
Clem vs Rogue
PiGStarcraft472
Liquipedia
HomeStory Cup
11:00
XXVII: Day 1
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft472
Nina 184
RuFF_SC2 157
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 3011
Aegong 91
NaDa 50
Larva 37
Icarus 7
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm173
League of Legends
JimRising 592
Counter-Strike
summit1g10370
Stewie2K500
Foxcn183
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox252
AZ_Axe165
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor21
Other Games
shahzam808
ViBE180
ToD162
Mew2King50
Trikslyr47
ProTech45
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1377
BasetradeTV34
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta56
• gosughost_ 7
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift4137
• Jankos1303
Other Games
• imaqtpie1017
• Scarra690
Upcoming Events
HomeStory Cup
9h 28m
CSO Cup
14h 28m
BSL: ProLeague
16h 28m
SOOP
1d 7h
SHIN vs ByuN
HomeStory Cup
1d 10h
BSL: ProLeague
1d 16h
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV European League
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
5 days
WardiTV European League
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Rose Open S1
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
HSC XXVII
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.