EPTMay I ask... Why?
If you're seeing this topic then another mass shooting hap…
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Velr
Switzerland10960 Posts
May I ask... Why? | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12559 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8279 Posts
Happened a few hours ago. 5 dead including the shooter at a medical building in Oklahoma. Police are keeping a tight lid, so we don't really know a whole lot about motivations, other than it wasn't random. | ||
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17847 Posts
On June 02 2022 17:17 Starlightsun wrote: 214th mass shooting of the year? Go murica. On average in US you have more than 360 shootings each year in which at least 4 people are killed or injured. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46484 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12559 Posts
Tl;dr ACAB | ||
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Ryzel
United States568 Posts
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Slydie
2013 Posts
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61933817.amp This ended up being a very interesting example of bias and hasty conclusions. The attack was near the most famous gay bar in Oslo, and the day before Pride. The police cancelled the parade, and was critizized for it as there were no indications of more attacks, many marched anyway. Also, this was quickly judged as being an attack on the gay community, but the gay bar was not the first bar the shooter opened fire against, and there were no indications he was a gay-hater. On the other hand, the shooter was an active Muslim, but also had a long and consuming conflict with the Norwegian authorities. My feeling is that psychic instability was the main reason for this tragedy, eventually snapping into "I hate everything and everyone" mode. Pride might not have anything to do with it at all, but maybe he saw it as a chance to get more impact and attention, which certainly succeeded. | ||
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Neneu
Norway492 Posts
On June 30 2022 05:59 Slydie wrote: I am not sure why this hasn't been posted, but there was a serious mass shooting in Oslo last Friday. 21 injured, 2 killed. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61933817.amp This ended up being a very interesting example of bias and hasty conclusions. The attack was near the most famous gay bar in Oslo, and the day before Pride. The police cancelled the parade, and was critizized for it as there were no indications of more attacks, many marched anyway. Also, this was quickly judged as being an attack on the gay community, but the gay bar was not the first bar the shooter opened fire against, and there were no indications he was a gay-hater. On the other hand, the shooter was an active Muslim, but also had a long and consuming conflict with the Norwegian authorities. My feeling is that psychic instability was the main reason for this tragedy, eventually snapping into "I hate everything and everyone" mode. Pride might not have anything to do with it at all, but maybe he saw it as a chance to get more impact and attention, which certainly succeeded. A quick reply regarding that, both the first bar (Per på hjørnet) and the other 'not-gay-bar' (Herr Nilsen) were having a pride party event. Both those two pubs have a large amount of regulars who are gay/trans and the guests from the gaybar (London Pub) are usually mixing between those three bars. One of the guys who were killed were a well known figure within the LGBTQ community and were a regular at both Per på hjørnet and London pub. Finally, witness accounts have said that he were very focused on shooting the guests from those three pubs. So you might have missed a few details of the story, if you think that what we know now doesn't indicate that the terror attack were being directed against the LGBTQ community. Also, the police said today that they think there were more people who had been involved with the terror attack. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8279 Posts
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Neneu
Norway492 Posts
On June 30 2022 16:37 Excludos wrote: I'm very interested to hear how he got his weapons. If I remember correctly, he had a "pistol and automatic rifle", one of which is very difficult to get a hold of, and the other which should be impossible to get a hold of. Quite interested to find out that myself as well. I remember when we had the most violent bank robbery in modern history (the Nokas robbery), with shooting in a very busy street by 13 professional bank robbers and which ended with a dead police officer. The farmer who were hiding the weapons after the robbery were threatened by the robbers with being killed, because he wanted to throw the weapons from the crime scene in the ocean. It was so hard to get guns (even though we have a lot of them), that the robbers would rather risk being caught with the evidence than having to try the impossible task to get new ones. My guess is that this is one of the reasons the police thinks that there are more people involved. | ||
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r00ty
Germany1087 Posts
On June 30 2022 16:37 Excludos wrote: I'm very interested to hear how he got his weapons. If I remember correctly, he had a "pistol and automatic rifle", one of which is very difficult to get a hold of, and the other which should be impossible to get a hold of. There are automatic rifles around in Europe, police sometimes find them, it's mostly remnants from the Jugoslavian war. Of course all of them are illegal but as it's rather easy to smuggle in from that part of europe, doesn't suprise me that they are also in Norway. TLDR If you are willing and criminal enough you can get an assault rifle, it's not impossible. | ||
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Neneu
Norway492 Posts
On June 30 2022 17:57 r00ty wrote: There are automatic rifles around in Europe, police sometimes find them, it's mostly remnants from the Jugoslavian war. Of course all of them are illegal but as it's rather easy to smuggle in from that part of europe, doesn't suprise me that they are also in Norway. TLDR If you are willing and criminal enough you can get an assault rifle, it's not impossible. Breivik wanted to do it this way initially, but he gave up. He were not able to get an assault rifle that way and he tried for a good amount of time. It probably is possible, but it's extremely far away from what almost everyone in Norway are able to do (e.i. the most focused terrorist in Norway who planned and worked with his plan for a long time weren't able to do it). | ||
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r00ty
Germany1087 Posts
On June 30 2022 18:06 Neneu wrote: Breivik wanted to do it this way initially, but he gave up. He were not able to get an assault rifle that way and he tried for a good amount of time. It probably is possible, but it's extremely far away from what almost everyone in Norway are able to do (e.i. the most focused terrorist in Norway who planned and worked with his plan for a long time weren't able to do it). I really hope it's that difficult in your country. My first thought is he may have lacked the criminal connections and wanted to stay under the radar. It's really mostly career criminals. Drug, human and arms trafficking is often connected. The kinda crowd where a charge like possession of a weapon like that wouldn't matter much or think they need that kind of "protection". Also people that will throw you under the bus for any advantage they can get. The last find i'm aware of in Germany was 2021 whith members of a well known kurdish arab clan in Berlin, who did every crime possible. They found 2 Uzis, an assault rifle and some semi-automatics. | ||
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Neneu
Norway492 Posts
On June 30 2022 18:45 r00ty wrote: I really hope it's that difficult in your country. My first thought is he may have lacked the criminal connections and wanted to stay under the radar. It's really mostly career criminals. Drug, human and arms trafficking is often connected. The kinda crowd where a charge like possession of a weapon like that wouldn't matter much or think they need that kind of "protection". Also people that will throw you under the bus for any advantage they can get. The last find i'm aware of in Germany was 2021 whith members of a well known kurdish arab clan in Berlin, who did every crime possible. They found 2 Uzis, an assault rifle and some semi-automatics. It really is that hard, as my example of the most violent norwegian armed robbery in modern times illustrated. Some of those thirteen guys were the most professional (many of them were behind several unsolved high profile armed robberies) and highly connected criminals in Norway. They had connections everywhere and many of them were connected to the most feared criminal gang back then, Tveitagjengen. They still haven't found the money they stole, but it's widely accepted that it's being hidden by the mafia. When they had messed up their robbery and there were a manhunt on them (although we didn't know exactly who all of them were yet), they threatened to kill the farmer who were hiding their guns (which were used on the crime scene), because he wanted to throw them into the ocean and get rid of the evidence. They had spent a lot of resources and a lot of time to get those guns, they would rather take the chance of the guns identifying them as the robbers by the police and used in court as evidence, than trying to get new ones for any future robberies. That's how hard it is to get it illegally in Norway. It is way easier to get it legally, we do love our guns after all (personally I got my hunting license when I were 14, as a subject in high school). However, you need to qualify for it and there're tons of safety regulations. All in all, I am very interested in how the shooter got his guns. EDIT: Also fuck that guy. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8279 Posts
On June 30 2022 19:20 Neneu wrote:It is way easier to get it legally, we do love our guns after all (personally I got my hunting license when I were 14, as a subject in high school). However, you need to qualify for it and there're tons of safety regulations.. Yeah. You can get hunting rifles and shotguns for hunting, and in some strict cases, a low caliber pistol for trap-hunting birds, after passing the hunting license exam. You can also go the way of sports shooting, and be allowed to buy a pistol after 6 months of being an active member of a gun club (which includes participating in competitions), and a semi-automatic rifle after being an active member for 2 years, and regularly compete in national competitions (You can thank Breivik for the 2 year waiting period for that rifle btw. My local dynamic sports shooting club were thrilled). For fully automatic rifles, the only legal way is currently to be a member of the Home Guard, and be part of a first response team (Not the more specialised Innsats-force, but rather some local areas have teams of people that live near objects that they want to defend quickly, and they are allowed to keep their guns fully functional at home, while the rest of us have to leave the bolt carrier assembly behind at base. They only started rolling this out a few years ago, and it's not being talked about very loudly for obvious reasons). But you have to be a pretty well trusted member for years for that to happen, and go through vigorous background checks, so not something most people can just choose to want to do. | ||
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Slydie
2013 Posts
This seems even less likely to be politically motivated than the shooting in Oslo recently, but I feel worried that taking a weapon and attacking random people in a crowded place is becoming a trend for troubled individuals. Maybe ignoring these incidents in the media is the best way to avoid them in the future? Did the pandemic or pessimistic movements in society play a part in pushing some of these over the edge? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62030919 | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4783 Posts
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