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The Macho Man
171 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 28 2013 10:49 geript wrote: No Toad, that doesn't explain why VE wanted to get credit for Prome instead of you. It doesn't even make sense that he's faulting you for trying to gain town cred when he's doing the same thing. I don't even care. He did the right thing for whatever reason. I don't think he'd do that as mafia so early on. For all I care he could be sitting in his room rolling dices to figure out who to vote and it'd still make him look good given the timing. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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MilkSuckler
Swaziland597 Posts
On February 28 2013 10:28 The Milkman wrote: Milk, we lynch scum as soon as we get them. Of course, there might be bigger fish to fry but we hope that the little spawns are going to be taken care of by town kp, if not, we go for the guy who we think is more likely to flip scum, so just the usual game. Understand.. but I have not seen a substantial reason to consider Grush scum; or anyone make an effort to identify why his actions are only performed by a *scum* Grush. (I admit that is probably a very difficult undertaking though) Toad saying.. my gut says red for Grush.. is not fuckn good enough.. full stop.. this applies to anyone.. if the gut says red.. lead the pressure, and confirm the gut read. *If you must know.. I pushed FUCKN hard for a Grush lynch in Mafia LIX.. based on nothing but a STARSENSES in his first post... he was town; so yes, I do have some hesitance to vote him this early* ================== If you want to talk about useful town vig for this cycle.. i much prefer JJ > Grush. I haven't read Dr.H reasoning for JJ.. so hopefully this is new content Now that prome has flipped. i see an association with JJ. JJ stood up for prome.. we all know this. The question is.. why did prome decide to attack JJ in his final post I see the following options
Ignore JJ JJ already had enough suspicion cast on himself due to defending prome, that the thread was certain to follow up on him the followed day (exemplified by Dr.H etc) defend JJ This would cement prome as scum (he could perhaps still hope the lynch would move somewhere else in the next 24 hrs - which is reasonable to think (look at the mayor vote swaps). It would also create WIFOM of: is he defending scum or setting up town which leads to an uncertain outcome. attack JJ This is pretty easy to do, and might give prome legroom to escape lynch. It also gives JJ an opportunity to defend himself and revert his support on prome. The problem is you still get the WIFOM of "making a scum buddy look good... or casting doubt on a 'bad townie'" *IF* JJ is town, I believe "Ignore" would be the best course of action. You remove the WIFOM and have certainty of a follow up *IF* JJ is scum, you can not defend him due to the above. & ignore still leads to follow up. Attacking JJ gives the best chance of achieving scum objectives (avoid lynch, and get a better image) Look at how JJ defended himself... "I am a super vet player.. if you knew who i was.. i could write 3 times less and be 3 times more influential" An image associated defense ========== So in short.. i didnt think JJ was likely scum pre-flip because I have seen townies make the play he did before.. fuck. i seen town generate fake cases on ppl they were certain of being town to elicit responses. however with the association.. i find it unlikely now based on the interplay that JJ is town. I dont see how the above is less damning than Grush's filter for a vig case.... | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On February 28 2013 10:32 MilkSuckler wrote: One of Prome problems was that he caught my smurf the night before the game started. We had a pre-game chat, and he signaled his desire to unleash his 'awesome' plan. So in some aspects he had to follow through regardless of alignment. His other problem was that he openly voiced he would be absent for a majority of Day1 cycle. I can easily see the scum qt using this as a situation to bus him - if required. The key would be that someone had to lead the case. This leaves: Toad, VE, Dr.H, MilkSucker, Wade Fell ... I would think one of these is scum ======= If someone needs to be scrutinsed this cycle,I would lead on VE. especially after his sheep of toad again to list 3 points to consider grush as scum (and the 3 points were all null indicative) *back to work.. be back later* The fuck, Mocsta? You suspect yourself? Upon looking back at the horrible mess that was pre-lynch a couple ideas popped into my head but honestly they're not worth voicing because they're way too complicated and unlikely to be true. All the same I REALLY didn't like the Toad/VE fiasco... DrH and to some extent BH seem quote townie to me, DrH especially. If he's not town just like Zare early last game I'd be terrified for us all. | ||
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MilkSuckler
Swaziland597 Posts
On February 28 2013 10:05 DoctorHelvetica wrote: + Show Spoiler + EBWOP - Layabout - I missed the explanation of your change of thought on Promethelax. My question is why didn't you see the martyring in his post? He had an opportunity to defend himself against my pressure before he went AFK before his farewell and he chose not to. Even without the time to properly do so, a townie would definitely be more aggressive in defending himself against the accusations. It was emotionless, deflated, that's what I'd expect. Vigilante - shoot JungleJorge tonight. On February 26 2013 18:25 JungleJorge wrote: I believe promethelax is innocent and I may expand on that if necessary, but it should be painfully obvious to anyone reading this thread how much traction this wagon got based on very poor reasoning by most of you. Much of the "scummy" behavior you have been pointing out is exactly the opposite of what scum normally tries to accomplish when they post. I suggest you revisit prom's filter and think about why he would post some of the stuff he has posted if he was indeed scum. I plan on being more specific later, but I'll give you guys some time to figure it out by yourselves. I would also like you to take a look on The Macho Man, as he is my best guess for scum amongst the "active" posters. Again, I'll come back to expand on this as well. See you guys in a few hours. MachoMan is the easy choice. A trolly player who has been mostly unclear about his intentions. Surprised he wouldn't go for Vivax, but I think Vivax is scum anyway so that would explain it. But first, let's deconstruct this gem: Promethelax is likely scum. I made that post specifically to see how he would react (as you noticed I didn't provide any reasons). Mostly my concerns were that too many people were pushing for his lynch and there was no opposition to it. Also the main reasons for the suspicion on him was some sudden change of mind or some controversial behavior, and those are normally townie traits. The thought begins by establishing that JungleJorge thought Promethelax was scum all along. He then claims the point of his defense toward Promethelax was to get a reaction out of him. 1. Why would a townie looking to pressure someone they think is scum do so by defending them? 2. Why would a townie ever intentionally defend someone they suspect of being scum? 3. Imagine you are scum being assaulted by town. Along comes a townie to defend you. In what way does this illicit a reaction or response from you? Would you thank him? Why wouldn't you just focus your response on your accusers to try to get free? The fact that Promethelax even responded is INCREDIBLY canned and staged. After all those people hammering him, the person he suspects is the single person defending him? Idiotic. This was a staged argument imo. "Now onto his reaction to my post: as town he would never come to the conclusion that I'm scum in that spot. What would be my interest as scum in defending a player everybody else thinks is scum? For town cred?" - This is absolute nonsense. If you are scum, you would know who is confirmed as town. The reasoning is simple, defend the mislynch then reap in the cred when the person flips green. "I'll refrain from expanding my thoughts on macho man from now as to not derail this lynch." - Great. Vig JungleJorge. Out of everything happening before Prom left the game, he chooses to focus his response on JJ's defense? I don't think so. Irk... this is similar to what i just posted.. im sorry. i honestly didnt try to sheep you (nor did I read this prior) | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On February 28 2013 10:57 VisceraEyes wrote: garmpit respond please - I want to hear you use the words "My mistake VE is not trying to take credit for the Prom lynch" Not until I get the chance to dive you again. My read was that you were mad that he was 'kill stealing'. But odds of me changing my mind on that are pretty slim. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VayeshMoru
201 Posts
On February 28 2013 11:01 VisceraEyes wrote: It's explicit in my posts, I have nothing to fear. geript is scum so fear him you should not | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On February 28 2013 11:02 VayeshMoru wrote: geript is scum so fear him you should not Fine, then investigate and/or vig me. | ||
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MilkSuckler
Swaziland597 Posts
On February 28 2013 10:59 WaveofShadow wrote: The fuck, Mocsta? You suspect yourself? Upon looking back at the horrible mess that was pre-lynch a couple ideas popped into my head but honestly they're not worth voicing because they're way too complicated and unlikely to be true. All the same I REALLY didn't like the Toad/VE fiasco... DrH and to some extent BH seem quote townie to me, DrH especially. If he's not town just like Zare early last game I'd be terrified for us all. I added myself because I have nothing to hide and I was one of the ppl who built a case on prome. I think its null I included myself.. I was active enough in promes lynch (in my opinion) that as scum I would have to consider myself in that list regardless. If you think I included myself in that list to then clear myself of suspicion straight after (by saying its unlikely I am scum).. well.. then you really need to read my filter and determine for yourself whether you think I am scum or town. | ||
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The Macho Man
171 Posts
On February 28 2013 11:02 VayeshMoru wrote: geript is scum so fear him you should not why do you say that? i see no super scummyness in his filter he attacks some of the huge names in the threads for whatever reason and seems to have no fear On February 27 2013 11:17 geript wrote: Fine then Dr. You think I'm scum. Bring the case. looks like a misguided townie to me | ||
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MilkSuckler
Swaziland597 Posts
I would rather get you lynched than Vig'd purely for egotistical reasons  (I am sure you know what I am talking about hahah)and dear.. I have been investigating you the entire Day1 cycle.. but I am sure you already knew that | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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JungleJorge
Uganda104 Posts
On February 26 2013 10:31 The Macho Man wrote: what does everyone think of vivax simply trying to figure out smurfs not alignments is the greatest of all time on to something or not? On February 26 2013 10:50 The Macho Man wrote: ve looks townie to me promoting discussion and showed some confusion towards me grepit is null need more however nothing sticks out as supper scummy to the macho man. On February 26 2013 12:29 The Macho Man wrote: thats sounds retarded we want to lynch scum mayor gets to lynch we want town there so he lynches scum hopefully. are you scum? Before these posts, TMM was mostly staying in character and joking around. But notice the pattern here. He jumps on mistakes of people and not actually behavior that points to scum. He has been trying to push vivax for as long as people have been discussing prom, but when it becomes clear the lynch is promethelax, suddenly he has a change of heart and says he likes w/e irrelevant post vivax has made. The first post I quoted is only the beginning of a series of mudslinging (towards vivax mostly, but also towards others) he has done all while promethelax was being discussed. The second post I quoted is something I found extremely artificial, some fake attempt at contribution with some half assed explanations about his reads. The explanation on VE looking townie is of note. The jump on randombum for the comment he has made, which any experienced player could tell most likely comes from a townie, as mafia would never make a post that controversial. The complete absence of mention to promethelax in the entirety of his filter. That's a tough subject for mafia, because he was likely to flip and thus all attempts at bullshit bussing would be thoroughly examined. This is iamp we are talking about, he has the tools to make very good reads and has done so, based on exactly this type of posting by randombum, in many of his previous games as town. The man is most likely scum and would be an excellent candidate for a vig shot. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
The other obvious answer there is to defend a teammate, but WoS actually pointed out something I was thinking earlier. I think Promethelax's bus was decided very early by scum due to his activity issues. I need to take a close look at Toadesstern. I'm less confident about JJ than I was before, his interaction with Prom is way way way damning for Promethelax (he essentially claims scum in his last post) but I might be hitting a bad townie here. Either way, it's a fair shot and wasting a vig bullet on a problem player is better than wasting a lynch in my opinion. I'll be rereading the filters of JJ and Vivax in the meantime since Vivax plays into this as well. I'll try to roll out my final thoughts before N1 is over incase I'm hit, otherwise I'll save my next big push for Day 2. For now, I want to discuss the nuances of JungleJorge's logic. Let's give the metareads on grush a rest for right now. At least JJ should be able to defend himself. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On February 28 2013 11:05 MilkSuckler wrote: I added myself because I have nothing to hide and I was one of the ppl who built a case on prome. I think its null I included myself.. I was active enough in promes lynch (in my opinion) that as scum I would have to consider myself in that list regardless. If you think I included myself in that list to then clear myself of suspicion straight after (by saying its unlikely I am scum).. well.. then you really need to read my filter and determine for yourself whether you think I am scum or town. I'm not accusing you of anything, I was just confused to be honest. As far as involvement in the case on Prom forming associations....the problem is I don't feel the Prom flip really accomplished anything aside from lynching scum. Which is great, but since he was gone so early and for so long I don't think we can gather enough concrete info about other people from that. As I said I have some really convoluted suspicions that are possible but not nearly enough to go on, and as people have stated, Occam's Razor. | ||
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MilkSuckler
Swaziland597 Posts
On February 28 2013 11:08 The Macho Man wrote: why do you say that? i see no super scummyness in his filter he attacks some of the huge names in the threads for whatever reason and seems to have no fear looks like a misguided townie to me Macho... I asked Milkman before to tell me who your top 2 reads were. he couldnt find ithem. Frankly. i dont care who you think is (misguided) town, cos scum know who is town. Please be all macho and provide your top two scum reads. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On February 28 2013 11:11 VisceraEyes wrote: For what it's worth, I feel like any kind of "building up to not lynch Prom" you're seeing Milk is nullified by the fact that I've been pushing since yesterday to get DocH elected. I did my best to not get elected, I even capsraged. The veteran players didn't want me as Mayor so I wanted to oblige them. Unless for some reason you think that DocH was unlikely to lynch Prom, then your point about me "building up to not lynch Prom" being a problem is moot. At no point did I not want today's lynch to be Prom. Ever. Not even to mention the fact that...you know...I'm mayor...and I lynched Prom. That's just icing. | ||
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