• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 10:07
CET 16:07
KST 00:07
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced
Tourneys
StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Tenacious Turtle Tussle 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO8 - Day 1 - Saturday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Fighting Spirit mining rates Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV The 2048 Game Path of Exile Awesome Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
VFFS Machine: An Efficient Solution for Modern Pac Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
How Sleep Deprivation Affect…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1085 users

PTP3 - Pikachu's Revenge - Page 65

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 63 64 65 66 67 114 Next
grush57
Profile Joined March 2011
Korea (South)2582 Posts
August 24 2012 21:48 GMT
#1281
On August 25 2012 06:43 Mementoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2012 06:42 grush57 wrote:
On August 25 2012 06:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
I swear to read the thread and post thoughts this cycle guys.

Ugh, worst town performance ever I'm afraid.


Vigis just have to shoot JingleHell, Mementoss and Biosc.


Care to expand on this?


nvm I reread.
Prolly wiggles instead of you.
"Every thing is either simply awful or awfully simple." | "Weaklings can't pick... their way of death."
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
August 24 2012 21:49 GMT
#1282
On August 25 2012 06:48 grush57 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2012 06:43 Mementoss wrote:
On August 25 2012 06:42 grush57 wrote:
On August 25 2012 06:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
I swear to read the thread and post thoughts this cycle guys.

Ugh, worst town performance ever I'm afraid.


Vigis just have to shoot JingleHell, Mementoss and Biosc.


Care to expand on this?


nvm I reread.
Prolly wiggles instead of you.


You are, in fact, aware that the person you wanted to sheep on, as far as "cases" against me are concerned, has recently accused me of being scum because I waited until after the day post to vote Mattchew, yes?
grush57
Profile Joined March 2011
Korea (South)2582 Posts
August 24 2012 21:49 GMT
#1283
Jingle, you don't answer to any of the cases against you, you keep bandwagoning on the townies!!!!!!!!!!!
You call me scum because I'm actually playing this time?!?!?!?1?!!??!?1?1?1!/1?1?1!?1?1
However when commenting on VE'
"Every thing is either simply awful or awfully simple." | "Weaklings can't pick... their way of death."
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
August 24 2012 21:51 GMT
#1284
On August 25 2012 06:49 grush57 wrote:
Jingle, you don't answer to any of the cases against you, you keep bandwagoning on the townies!!!!!!!!!!!
You call me scum because I'm actually playing this time?!?!?!?1?!!??!?1?1?1!/1?1?1!?1?1
However when commenting on VE'


Yes. When you're town, you refuse to play. Instead, you troll. I assume that playing scum appeals to your trollish, annoying nature, thus, you actually play.

And if I've missed a case made by a person with a functioning brain stem, I truly apologize for not answering it. Please enlighten me as to where it is, and I'll respond.
grush57
Profile Joined March 2011
Korea (South)2582 Posts
August 24 2012 21:52 GMT
#1285
darnit idk how I entered but
when commenting on VE's play you said he wanted to play differenty and give him the benefit brohan.
Which is me questioning VE being town right now.
But all the vets aren't trying, the one who did was BC and he died, and Wiggles is playing the EXACT same way he did as scum before. When I played with WBG before and he was town he was very active, and Kenpachi could be town or scum because he is Kenpachi.
"Every thing is either simply awful or awfully simple." | "Weaklings can't pick... their way of death."
grush57
Profile Joined March 2011
Korea (South)2582 Posts
August 24 2012 21:52 GMT
#1286
On August 25 2012 06:51 JingleHell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2012 06:49 grush57 wrote:
Jingle, you don't answer to any of the cases against you, you keep bandwagoning on the townies!!!!!!!!!!!
You call me scum because I'm actually playing this time?!?!?!?1?!!??!?1?1?1!/1?1?1!?1?1
However when commenting on VE'


Yes. When you're town, you refuse to play. Instead, you troll. I assume that playing scum appeals to your trollish, annoying nature, thus, you actually play.

And if I've missed a case made by a person with a functioning brain stem, I truly apologize for not answering it. Please enlighten me as to where it is, and I'll respond.


Why do you have to be so mean over a game? You obviously haven't looked at my scum play and only one game as me town...
"Every thing is either simply awful or awfully simple." | "Weaklings can't pick... their way of death."
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
August 24 2012 21:53 GMT
#1287
On August 25 2012 06:52 grush57 wrote:
darnit idk how I entered but
when commenting on VE's play you said he wanted to play differenty and give him the benefit brohan.
Which is me questioning VE being town right now.
But all the vets aren't trying, the one who did was BC and he died, and Wiggles is playing the EXACT same way he did as scum before. When I played with WBG before and he was town he was very active, and Kenpachi could be town or scum because he is Kenpachi.


There's a difference. You appear to be faking an effort, rather than making an effort.
grush57
Profile Joined March 2011
Korea (South)2582 Posts
August 24 2012 21:55 GMT
#1288
On August 25 2012 06:53 JingleHell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2012 06:52 grush57 wrote:
darnit idk how I entered but
when commenting on VE's play you said he wanted to play differenty and give him the benefit brohan.
Which is me questioning VE being town right now.
But all the vets aren't trying, the one who did was BC and he died, and Wiggles is playing the EXACT same way he did as scum before. When I played with WBG before and he was town he was very active, and Kenpachi could be town or scum because he is Kenpachi.


There's a difference. You appear to be faking an effort, rather than making an effort.

Fine tunnel me instead of the 10 lurkers who don't even try to fake an effort.
I know who I'm voting for tommorow :D
"Every thing is either simply awful or awfully simple." | "Weaklings can't pick... their way of death."
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
August 24 2012 21:57 GMT
#1289
On August 25 2012 06:52 grush57 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2012 06:51 JingleHell wrote:
On August 25 2012 06:49 grush57 wrote:
Jingle, you don't answer to any of the cases against you, you keep bandwagoning on the townies!!!!!!!!!!!
You call me scum because I'm actually playing this time?!?!?!?1?!!??!?1?1?1!/1?1?1!?1?1
However when commenting on VE'


Yes. When you're town, you refuse to play. Instead, you troll. I assume that playing scum appeals to your trollish, annoying nature, thus, you actually play.

And if I've missed a case made by a person with a functioning brain stem, I truly apologize for not answering it. Please enlighten me as to where it is, and I'll respond.


Why do you have to be so mean over a game? You obviously haven't looked at my scum play and only one game as me town...


This isn't me being mean. You're actually trying to call it scummy to not worry about stupid cases, when it's usually scummier to answer completely stupid cases.

The "case" Misder made and you sheeped was a joke, and Misder has recently managed to prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt. Cry more, scum.

Show me a genuine contribution, rather than a fake one. Oh wait, you can't. Show me why Misder's case should be taken seriously, using only logic and reason, which you do NOT POSSESS. And actually, I've read several of your games, you're kind of infamous.
grush57
Profile Joined March 2011
Korea (South)2582 Posts
August 24 2012 21:59 GMT
#1290
On August 25 2012 06:57 JingleHell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2012 06:52 grush57 wrote:
On August 25 2012 06:51 JingleHell wrote:
On August 25 2012 06:49 grush57 wrote:
Jingle, you don't answer to any of the cases against you, you keep bandwagoning on the townies!!!!!!!!!!!
You call me scum because I'm actually playing this time?!?!?!?1?!!??!?1?1?1!/1?1?1!?1?1
However when commenting on VE'


Yes. When you're town, you refuse to play. Instead, you troll. I assume that playing scum appeals to your trollish, annoying nature, thus, you actually play.

And if I've missed a case made by a person with a functioning brain stem, I truly apologize for not answering it. Please enlighten me as to where it is, and I'll respond.


Why do you have to be so mean over a game? You obviously haven't looked at my scum play and only one game as me town...


This isn't me being mean. You're actually trying to call it scummy to not worry about stupid cases, when it's usually scummier to answer completely stupid cases.

The "case" Misder made and you sheeped was a joke, and Misder has recently managed to prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt. Cry more, scum.

Show me a genuine contribution, rather than a fake one. Oh wait, you can't. Show me why Misder's case should be taken seriously, using only logic and reason, which you do NOT POSSESS. And actually, I've read several of your games, you're kind of infamous.

When I played scum I just lurked and didn't contribute.
Plus VE has a similarish style :D(as town atleast)

"Every thing is either simply awful or awfully simple." | "Weaklings can't pick... their way of death."
grush57
Profile Joined March 2011
Korea (South)2582 Posts
August 24 2012 22:06 GMT
#1291
On August 25 2012 06:59 grush57 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2012 06:57 JingleHell wrote:
On August 25 2012 06:52 grush57 wrote:
On August 25 2012 06:51 JingleHell wrote:
On August 25 2012 06:49 grush57 wrote:
Jingle, you don't answer to any of the cases against you, you keep bandwagoning on the townies!!!!!!!!!!!
You call me scum because I'm actually playing this time?!?!?!?1?!!??!?1?1?1!/1?1?1!?1?1
However when commenting on VE'


Yes. When you're town, you refuse to play. Instead, you troll. I assume that playing scum appeals to your trollish, annoying nature, thus, you actually play.

And if I've missed a case made by a person with a functioning brain stem, I truly apologize for not answering it. Please enlighten me as to where it is, and I'll respond.


Why do you have to be so mean over a game? You obviously haven't looked at my scum play and only one game as me town...


This isn't me being mean. You're actually trying to call it scummy to not worry about stupid cases, when it's usually scummier to answer completely stupid cases.

The "case" Misder made and you sheeped was a joke, and Misder has recently managed to prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt. Cry more, scum.

Show me a genuine contribution, rather than a fake one. Oh wait, you can't. Show me why Misder's case should be taken seriously, using only logic and reason, which you do NOT POSSESS. And actually, I've read several of your games, you're kind of infamous.

When I played scum I just lurked and didn't contribute.
Plus VE has a similarish style :D(as town atleast)



Kinda like Biosc mm mm :D
"Every thing is either simply awful or awfully simple." | "Weaklings can't pick... their way of death."
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
August 24 2012 22:07 GMT
#1292
hey VE

why do you join games if you don't intend to play them?

What I mean is - one-liners aren't, strictly speaking, "playing" the game. They're like...active observing. It's getting really fucking old and I'd really like a reason to not vote you
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Barbiero
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Brazil5259 Posts
August 24 2012 22:07 GMT
#1293
on the other hand, (after doing a quick 5min skim through the last 161 posts), I don't feel mattchew to be that scummy anymore... especially because the whole claim thing was what convinced me. hugh this deadline is killing me.

I agree with the case on hopes though. He was looking really weird the whole time. So... yeah it's kinda our fault(I say our because I agreed with the lynch when reading stuff) for not thinking better.

Kenpachi, why mementoss is town precisely?

Kurumi, I protected heist d1 because he said he had a shooting role day1, and I thought it would be useful. But he has been really useless lately and I'm not liking that.


Also, can someone for the love of god shoot grush already. Yo mattchew, you said you are a vigi. do us that favor. If you don't want, publicly announce you won't so someone else can shoot him. please. pwease?
♥ The world needs more hearts! ♥
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
August 24 2012 22:08 GMT
#1294
You have yet to contribute, you've mostly just active lurked. The only difference is a (weak) appearance of contribution. The main two people you want to get rid of are people who have acknowledged your useless, trolly meta, but you suggest that you want to change your meta.

You wouldn't want to change it if you didn't know how bad it was, so why would you find myself and VE scummy for thinking you'd be an ok policy lynch?

You're flailing, you don't have any logic to back you up.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
August 24 2012 22:09 GMT
#1295
EBWOP: My most recent was, of course, to grush.
grush57
Profile Joined March 2011
Korea (South)2582 Posts
August 24 2012 22:10 GMT
#1296
On August 25 2012 07:07 Zephirdd wrote:
on the other hand, (after doing a quick 5min skim through the last 161 posts), I don't feel mattchew to be that scummy anymore... especially because the whole claim thing was what convinced me. hugh this deadline is killing me.

I agree with the case on hopes though. He was looking really weird the whole time. So... yeah it's kinda our fault(I say our because I agreed with the lynch when reading stuff) for not thinking better.

Kenpachi, why mementoss is town precisely?

Kurumi, I protected heist d1 because he said he had a shooting role day1, and I thought it would be useful. But he has been really useless lately and I'm not liking that.


Also, can someone for the love of god shoot grush already. Yo mattchew, you said you are a vigi. do us that favor. If you don't want, publicly announce you won't so someone else can shoot him. please. pwease?


LOL
youve been doing sooooo much more.

Anyways town has gone to shit I'm not gonna bother.
"Every thing is either simply awful or awfully simple." | "Weaklings can't pick... their way of death."
grush57
Profile Joined March 2011
Korea (South)2582 Posts
August 24 2012 22:11 GMT
#1297
Oh yea vigis hit me see what happens ;D
"Every thing is either simply awful or awfully simple." | "Weaklings can't pick... their way of death."
Barbiero
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Brazil5259 Posts
August 24 2012 22:13 GMT
#1298
On August 25 2012 07:10 grush57 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2012 07:07 Zephirdd wrote:
on the other hand, (after doing a quick 5min skim through the last 161 posts), I don't feel mattchew to be that scummy anymore... especially because the whole claim thing was what convinced me. hugh this deadline is killing me.

I agree with the case on hopes though. He was looking really weird the whole time. So... yeah it's kinda our fault(I say our because I agreed with the lynch when reading stuff) for not thinking better.

Kenpachi, why mementoss is town precisely?

Kurumi, I protected heist d1 because he said he had a shooting role day1, and I thought it would be useful. But he has been really useless lately and I'm not liking that.


Also, can someone for the love of god shoot grush already. Yo mattchew, you said you are a vigi. do us that favor. If you don't want, publicly announce you won't so someone else can shoot him. please. pwease?


LOL
youve been doing sooooo much more.

Anyways town has gone to shit I'm not gonna bother.


For one, I'm not spamming the thread with useless liners that have no content. At very very very least most of my posts are condensed.

Secondly,

On August 25 2012 07:11 grush57 wrote:
Oh yea vigis hit me see what happens ;D

Dat wifom attempt of saving yourself.
♥ The world needs more hearts! ♥
grush57
Profile Joined March 2011
Korea (South)2582 Posts
August 24 2012 22:19 GMT
#1299
On August 25 2012 07:13 Zephirdd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2012 07:10 grush57 wrote:
On August 25 2012 07:07 Zephirdd wrote:
on the other hand, (after doing a quick 5min skim through the last 161 posts), I don't feel mattchew to be that scummy anymore... especially because the whole claim thing was what convinced me. hugh this deadline is killing me.

I agree with the case on hopes though. He was looking really weird the whole time. So... yeah it's kinda our fault(I say our because I agreed with the lynch when reading stuff) for not thinking better.

Kenpachi, why mementoss is town precisely?

Kurumi, I protected heist d1 because he said he had a shooting role day1, and I thought it would be useful. But he has been really useless lately and I'm not liking that.


Also, can someone for the love of god shoot grush already. Yo mattchew, you said you are a vigi. do us that favor. If you don't want, publicly announce you won't so someone else can shoot him. please. pwease?


LOL
youve been doing sooooo much more.

Anyways town has gone to shit I'm not gonna bother.


For one, I'm not spamming the thread with useless liners that have no content. At very very very least most of my posts are condensed.

Secondly,

Show nested quote +
On August 25 2012 07:11 grush57 wrote:
Oh yea vigis hit me see what happens ;D

Dat wifom attempt of saving yourself.

No, do it, I dare you.
Anyways it seems that the scum don't have much extra kp from last night and it seems like the vigis aren't the likes of zeph, so we are in a good spot.
"Every thing is either simply awful or awfully simple." | "Weaklings can't pick... their way of death."
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21170 Posts
August 24 2012 22:25 GMT
#1300
On August 25 2012 07:07 Mattchew wrote:
hey VE

why do you join games if you don't intend to play them?

What I mean is - one-liners aren't, strictly speaking, "playing" the game. They're like...active observing. It's getting really fucking old and I'd really like a reason to not vote you


*glare*
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
Prev 1 63 64 65 66 67 114 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
12:00
#65
MaxPax vs RogueLIVE!
TBD vs ByuN
WardiTV1186
OGKoka 448
Harstem316
IntoTheiNu 9
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 448
Lowko409
Harstem 316
ProTech116
LamboSC2 83
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4776
Rain 1929
GuemChi 1178
Bisu 1120
Larva 999
Light 904
Stork 856
Hyuk 745
Jaedong 675
firebathero 578
[ Show more ]
EffOrt 574
Mini 527
Shuttle 335
Pusan 327
Sharp 325
ggaemo 322
Hyun 266
Snow 252
ZerO 248
actioN 246
Rush 167
BeSt 149
hero 121
Zeus 91
ToSsGirL 47
Movie 46
Free 33
Bale 32
JYJ 28
Rock 26
910 22
Aegong 21
Mong 19
soO 19
Terrorterran 16
Shinee 14
Shine 9
Dota 2
Gorgc5607
singsing3833
qojqva1547
Dendi445
syndereN120
XcaliburYe110
Counter-Strike
byalli701
allub311
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor201
Other Games
B2W.Neo1325
Hui .399
crisheroes350
Happy191
RotterdaM118
XaKoH 108
Mew2King68
QueenE59
Liquid`VortiX51
ZerO(Twitch)16
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 9
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV359
League of Legends
• Jankos3329
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
1h 53m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
18h 53m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 9h
OSC
1d 23h
YoungYakov vs Mixu
ForJumy vs TBD
Percival vs TBD
Shameless vs TBD
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
SC Evo League
4 days
BSL 21
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
BSL 21
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.