Okay, done a little more catching up. I'm really liking MrWiggles for scum.
BC's Case
+ Show Spoiler +On August 23 2012 16:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 14:41 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On August 23 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:17 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote:
Mattchew
Heist
Misder
WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously if you are not being sarcastic that is my thought process I still like dirk as red, and wiggles has done absolutely nothing to help town period this game. He however has managed to find time to criticize people and claim they must be red with 0 case. (see bugs' post a few pages ago on wiggles to see what I mean). So, this post stuck out to me, because of the misdirection it's pushing. It's funny, because he says I claim people are red, when all I said is I think that at least one of BC and WBG are red. There wasn't a declaration about which I thought was red, just that I thought there was red between them. However, BC reacts very defensively here. His reasoning for me being a scum candidate is that I'm criticizing people and claiming "they must" be red without a case. But the fun part is I didn't call either him or WBG red directly, I just said one of them were red. So, why the defensiveness and near-OMGUS? If for example, I had said that there was at least one red among all the players still alive, no one would care. It would be fallacious to say that I was saying all of them must be red without a case. So then why the difference when I limit it to a small pool of players? Now the next fun part is that besides saying I'm claiming some people must be red when all I did was say that I thought at least one bandwagon was started by scum (which is a reason, by the way), BC criticizes me for doing so without making a case on either one. He also uses this to support the conclusion that I'm scum. This would be fine coming from another player, but not from BC, or at least not if you've read his filter. Let's take a look, shall we? + Show Spoiler [The Terrible Terrible Contradiction Re…] +On August 20 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Whoever said third time is the charm is a horrible liar. Also people stop role speculating. Previous PtP games have seen really amazing ideas thought up and ones that lack any sort of creativity.
What people should instead be concentrating is scum and people trying to push scumish ideas. As Kurumi made the statement of role cops being the best form of cop he is obviously scum.
Now lets continue finding the rest of his team as it appears they are going to out themselves easily. Explanation came 6 hours later. On August 21 2012 04:33 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 16:16 Dirkzor wrote:Oh god. 7 pages of nothingness so far. Oh and btw I'm to.. No... not that. Horrible way to enter a thread. On August 20 2012 07:41 Drazerk wrote:
##Take In Sunlight
##Solar Beam: VisceraEyes On August 20 2012 07:56 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 07:55 strongandbig wrote:On August 20 2012 07:52 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 07:51 Toadesstern wrote:On August 20 2012 07:48 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 07:46 Toadesstern wrote:
as if. I'll consider that a troll and if you really do damage I'll blast right back.
Also: sup guyses I GOT A KP ROLE OUT OF MY TROLL Basically all I wanted  I said you're trolling. Go figure what that might mean for my post. Still you wouldn't do the threat if you couldn't back up with something other than a half assed vote that means nothing soooooo... why were you trying to out kp roles? Track the damage track the scum Since this is the most interesting thing so far I'll guess its also the best way to start. Drazerk's maybe fake solar beam doesn't make any sense. I know its Drazerk so in that way I could be excused. But the way he explained it doesn't fit a Drazerk move (as I remember him from last I played). I would have expected a more "Because I wanted too" response. All that is meta and not super reliable. But "Track the damage track the scum" doesn't even make sense. Even if you know that Toad have a KP doesn't make it easier to find scum? I dislike Drazerk's posting so far... I end it with this lulz: On August 20 2012 10:44 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:28 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:27 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:23 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:17 Drazerk wrote:
I'm with wiggles there are super powers out there that prey on certain information being known (Steamship 4 shot sniper comes to mind)
So the following -
No pokemon names
No Type
No role information
No claiming medic to save scum
Anyone who does this will probably just be shot down or turned green Why do you keep stating obvious things -_- I have my reasons I hope they don't revolve around you using the argument later of "look at how helpful I was being, I clearly cannot be scum" because well, general advice to a group of players who at this point should all know the basics of playing clearly wouldn't need said advice. I never defend myself You should know this by now Then you should really stop playing so scummy. Playing as you are now reaks almost as distinctly red as mr kurumi over there. He smells bad. Theres no real way for me to stop looking like scum with my play style and its why you will need to kill me (I said kill not lynch) before Lylo other whys ill make an awful call at a critical situation and lose town the game or you will all suspect me and lose town the game. Man, I think dirk just claimed scum with this post. hurrah Explanation came 5 hours later. On August 20 2012 10:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 10:28 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:27 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:23 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:17 Drazerk wrote:
I'm with wiggles there are super powers out there that prey on certain information being known (Steamship 4 shot sniper comes to mind)
So the following -
No pokemon names
No Type
No role information
No claiming medic to save scum
Anyone who does this will probably just be shot down or turned green Why do you keep stating obvious things -_- I have my reasons I hope they don't revolve around you using the argument later of "look at how helpful I was being, I clearly cannot be scum" because well, general advice to a group of players who at this point should all know the basics of playing clearly wouldn't need said advice. I never defend myself You should know this by now Then you should really stop playing so scummy. Playing as you are now reaks almost as distinctly red as mr kurumi over there. He smells bad. No case. On August 21 2012 05:38 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Chezinu has not yet tried to make a new house called the chezinu house, fake claimed a role, or said hes brown. Guy is mafia yo. No case. On August 22 2012 07:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 04:05 Mementoss wrote:On August 22 2012 03:54 Toadesstern wrote:
mementoss what's your take on Dirkzor vs Drazerk vs imallinson? Drazerk - commented more in detail before but troll bad town for now Dirkzor - the only thing suspicious about him seems to be his mess up in meta to try and make imallinson look worse than he is. I think this could be an honest mistake however. Most people voting for Dirkzor are people I don't trust, makes me uneasy. imallinson - will probably be where I'm placing my vote. I commented on it a bit before but will re-iterate. His initial posts were made to look like he contributed and actually tried drag day 1 discussion backwards. He did nothing for scum hunting and when criticized on this fact made a half ass case on SnB just to say he did. Spent most of the time defending himself which shittered up the thread and buried useful posts that were scum hunting at the time, it looks really bad in context. Also in the defence of himself he threw the heat onto dirkzor, who was an easy target because he had early heat in this game anyways. To take this further, his scum buddy who he planned this with, BC, immediately made a case onto dirkzor and got the wagon rolling. Look at the people voting for him, can you honestly say any of them look better than neutral to you?In this order: BC, imallinson, VE, mattchew, misder. I would like to hear your take on Dirkzor vs Drazerk vs imallinson additionally. ##Unvote: Mattchew
##Vote: Imallinson Well as you called me scum, and sheeped onto a now confirmed town player as well as lied in the bolded section. Guess what duder, I was putting heat and pressure on both draz + dirk before a case on allinson was EVER MADE. Now obviously thats only a minor lie, but given that I had out right said Dirk Scumclaimed well before that its still a lie. Also given how people voted. Dirk/ mementoss/bumatlarge for likely reds. No case on Bum, and flimsy reasoning on Mementoss. On August 22 2012 11:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 10:55 grush57 wrote:
Okay so, I get banned, then People are all up in Drazerk's face because he is telling everybody to kill him and being stupid with that attitude. Still, I think he is town. Then the town switched to Dirkzor, I don't think he is scum either, he is helping out and responding. Hopeless1dr ninja votes, he is scum. People calling out Kurumi for being scummy, I agree. Toad(jk, lol idk) shoots VE, people get on VE's chain for policy lynching. NO ONE IS UP IN JINGLE'S GRILL ABOUT HIM WANTING TO POLICY LYNCH ME:O. Also I think Hiropro? Heist? made a post calling out Jingle which is good cuz he is scum. Then it's like Zephirrid(null on him, he has been getting scummier the longer the game has been going so far) and imallison(who I thought was a noob townie) and dirkzor(I think he is town aswell). End up lynching a townie and thats about where we were at.
So my scum list is:
JingleHell(SCUMSCUMSCUM)
Hopeless1dr(ninja vote, scum)
Maybe BioSC(I don't even know why but he is scum) How is dirk helping? I would like a detailed response on that. I will agree that hopeless is likely scum at this point though. No case here either. On August 23 2012 10:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:18 Kurumi wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote:
Mattchew
Heist
Misder
WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously So you are defending all those people? KIta died , chez died , bum died ... Who is left , my dear Cobbler? All of them? no, but clear ignorance of people who should still be in the spotlight is ridiculous. Of that list only wbg to me is a town read and the other three are null's. Misder is likely scum based on similar level to his scum levels but hes also notorious for lurking period. Reasoning is based on activity... On August 23 2012 10:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:23 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:22 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:17 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote:
Mattchew
Heist
Misder
WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously if you are not being sarcastic that is my thought process I still like dirk as red, and wiggles has done absolutely nothing to help town period this game. He however has managed to find time to criticize people and claim they must be red with 0 case. (see bugs' post a few pages ago on wiggles to see what I mean). But mattchew has done something to help town? :S I found SnB as town, and I am pretty sure VE is town too now. so thats pretty helpful what exactly have you done meme? other than bandwagon a townie lynch? you do realize you just claimed scum here right? On August 23 2012 10:35 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:32 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:23 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:22 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:17 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote:
Mattchew
Heist
Misder
WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously if you are not being sarcastic that is my thought process I still like dirk as red, and wiggles has done absolutely nothing to help town period this game. He however has managed to find time to criticize people and claim they must be red with 0 case. (see bugs' post a few pages ago on wiggles to see what I mean). But mattchew has done something to help town? :S I found SnB as town, and I am pretty sure VE is town too now. so thats pretty helpful what exactly have you done meme? other than bandwagon a townie lynch? you do realize you just claimed scum here right? I dont get it either Because he has done nothing useful (so far) to help the town in any way. To come out and say "i found blah as town and I think blah is town" is great. You know who likes finding town? or more specifically, differentiating town from third party or town from mafia? Not fucking townies. Saying your green reads is awesome, but if you don't state your red cases with actual reasons and instead just hop on wagons / spout green reads you are likely not town. First time BC has called someone red and then actually made any kind of quick follow up with actual reasoning for it. He was still asked for his reasoning before he gave it though. Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!!! So all in all, according to BC , we have a 9-person scum team of: Kurumi Drazerk Dirkzor Chezinu Mementoss Bumatlarge Hopeless1der Misder Mattchew Only one of these accusations had any sort of case or reasoning to go along with it when he posted it. Two of them had cases posted many hours after the actual accusation. So, that's either 8 or 6 people he has called scum without any kind of case or reasoning to back it up. But in the post I have quoted up at the top, BC says that one of the reasons I'm looking bad is that I called out "people" without a case. That's hypocrisy and contradiction at it's finest. In addition, the very fact that BC has called out so many people without any reasoning is alarming as well. He likes to call people out as not being useful to town or helping the town at all, which is funny when you look at his own posts. Basically, they consist of three things: -Making accusations with no case/reasoning -Role/setup speculation and general advice -Backing up his accusations only when asked Besides the couple cases he has actually bothered to explain, I wouldn't call his posts very "helpful". If you look through his posts without treating his posting as a whole, you might be tricked into thinking he's helping the town or actively scumhunting, but all he's doing is posting accusations that accomplish nothing and do nothing to help us kill scum. Now, the last thing to note is the general attitude with which BC has been treating his cases, particularly the one on Dirkzor today. He doesn't sound like he cares that much about lynching his target. This is a jarring distinction from the way he addresses the players he's accusing. In several posts, BC has claimed that Dirk has claimed scum, says that he's "clearly" acting anti-town, and makes another post where he just calls him mafia plainly. Basically, he says with complete confidence that Dirkzor is 100% scum. However, there aren't really any posts in his filter where he asks for other people to vote for Dirkzor, or challenges their choice of lynch target. So, he's not actively pushing people to lynch Dirk, which is weird considering his posts say that he knows he's scum. Next, is his change in tone after the Day 1 Dirkzor lynch failed: On August 22 2012 07:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 22 2012 04:05 Mementoss wrote:On August 22 2012 03:54 Toadesstern wrote:
mementoss what's your take on Dirkzor vs Drazerk vs imallinson? Drazerk - commented more in detail before but troll bad town for now Dirkzor - the only thing suspicious about him seems to be his mess up in meta to try and make imallinson look worse than he is. I think this could be an honest mistake however. Most people voting for Dirkzor are people I don't trust, makes me uneasy. imallinson - will probably be where I'm placing my vote. I commented on it a bit before but will re-iterate. His initial posts were made to look like he contributed and actually tried drag day 1 discussion backwards. He did nothing for scum hunting and when criticized on this fact made a half ass case on SnB just to say he did. Spent most of the time defending himself which shittered up the thread and buried useful posts that were scum hunting at the time, it looks really bad in context. Also in the defence of himself he threw the heat onto dirkzor, who was an easy target because he had early heat in this game anyways. To take this further, his scum buddy who he planned this with, BC, immediately made a case onto dirkzor and got the wagon rolling. Look at the people voting for him, can you honestly say any of them look better than neutral to you?In this order: BC, imallinson, VE, mattchew, misder. I would like to hear your take on Dirkzor vs Drazerk vs imallinson additionally. ##Unvote: Mattchew
##Vote: Imallinson Well as you called me scum, and sheeped onto a now confirmed town player as well as lied in the bolded section. Guess what duder, I was putting heat and pressure on both draz + dirk before a case on allinson was EVER MADE. Now obviously thats only a minor lie, but given that I had out right said Dirk Scumclaimed well before that its still a lie. Also given how people voted. Dirk/mementoss/bumatlarge for likely reds. On August 23 2012 13:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
regardless at this time I still feel that dirk or wiggles are better lynches then mattchew so I am voting there.
Vote: dirkzor On August 23 2012 13:37 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 13:34 Drazerk wrote:
Personally I'd rather kill Wiggles / Mattchew over Dirk but thats because I honestly get no vibes from the case and I hate voting on things I don't care about. Honestly the only vibes I get from mattchew are bad townie at the moment. Could that mean red? yes but i feel its less likely. I am fine with a wiggles or dirk situation with current preference to dirk only given that he has done far more to get on my radar. You at least have a reason to not want to kill dirk though which is more than most have. Now Dirkzor has gone from being 100% scum to being "likely scum". Also, his two posts addressing him today are saying that he's "fine" with a dirk lynch, or that he's a better lynch than mattchew. This is different from saying that he thinks Dirkzor is the best lynch, or the person we should for sure kill today. Notice the tentativeness compared to how he acted on Day 1. It's a complete departure from how he was treating him before, and he doesn't give a reason for such a change in his posts. Indeed, he even continues to press Dirkzor into Night 1. So, why the caution and tentativeness from him now? It's because he's sounding out the lynch. He can't just abandon Dirkzor, because of how hard he pressed him on Day 1. As well, there was an anti-Wiggles sentiment that began during Night 1, and now he's saying he'd like to lynch me possibly. However, he doesn't make a strong push one way or the other. His posts are saying that he could go either way, and that he's OK with either one of us being lynched. It's because he's trying to sound out the way town sentiment is running, and wants to leave himself outs in case he comes under opposition. He's setting himself up to keep tunneling Dirkzor without doing anything to really get him killed, while also keeping open the possibility of switching to me if it turns out that's how people want to run Day 2. Therefore: ##Vote: BloodyC0bblerI've outlined what I think of him and his play above. The guy is scum, and he's who we should be lynching today. He's trying to get by with superficial "contributions", and has been playing in a self-contradictory and hypocritical manner since he's first started posting. We need to kill him today, or else he's going to just float by as people give him a pass for doing a minimal amount of anything. + Show Spoiler [Free Bonus Content] +On August 23 2012 10:35 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:32 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:23 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:22 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:17 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote:
Mattchew
Heist
Misder
WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously if you are not being sarcastic that is my thought process I still like dirk as red, and wiggles has done absolutely nothing to help town period this game. He however has managed to find time to criticize people and claim they must be red with 0 case. (see bugs' post a few pages ago on wiggles to see what I mean). But mattchew has done something to help town? :S I found SnB as town, and I am pretty sure VE is town too now. so thats pretty helpful what exactly have you done meme? other than bandwagon a townie lynch? you do realize you just claimed scum here right? I dont get it either Because he has done nothing useful (so far) to help the town in any way. To come out and say "i found blah as town and I think blah is town" is great. You know who likes finding town? or more specifically, differentiating town from third party or town from mafia? Not fucking townies. Saying your green reads is awesome, but if you don't state your red cases with actual reasons and instead just hop on wagons / spout green reads you are likely not town. On August 23 2012 10:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:18 Kurumi wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote:
Mattchew
Heist
Misder
WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously So you are defending all those people? KIta died , chez died , bum died ... Who is left , my dear Cobbler? All of them? no, but clear ignorance of people who should still be in the spotlight is ridiculous. Of that list only wbg to me is a town read and the other three are null's. Misder is likely scum based on similar level to his scum levels but hes also notorious for lurking period. Besides the fact that finding town helps find scum through the process of elimination and helps give people "cred", these posts by BC are another example of the terrible "contributions" he makes and why I think he's scum. He calls out Mattchew for calling people town. Mattchew says here that he thought S&B was town (who was flipped), and that he finds VE to be town. BC proceeds to flip out at him and call him scum because he lists VE as a green read. Not exactly "spout[ing] green reads", as BC puts it. Funny is that 13 minutes before that BC made a post of his own saying he has a green read on WBG, which is the same level of pointing out greens that Mattchew was guilty of. Also funny, because Mattchew has posted suspicions and reads and BC claims he has done none of that in favour of pointing out tons of greens. As well, there's another condemnation of calling people red without a case. Hilarious stuff. Set trap, bait, trap sprung. You caught a wiggles. Now wiggles whats awesome is that I was never sure if you were just being lazy, or just red. Easiest way to do that is to set out some bait to see who jumps on me. Given the death of Chez and Toad already for your team, you knew you'd have to take out one of the more well known players fast or risk being slaughtered. Thankfully I knew how to draw out some scum. You see wiggles, by forcing you to justify your earlier post by giving you the "weaker" target to jump at I knew you'd target me. You know, just like your team opted to try and drop VE day 1 and failed? This time I put myself in the shoes of the person who would be attacked as I like the spotlight. Now to start with your horrific case in which I will refute it, then toss the ball back in your scummy court. You start by saying that you only said "you believe one of my and bugs must be scum" You then say i am acting defensively, although I only barely mention you in passing, while the person who made a giant post to attack your play (which only appeared after you called two people out mind you) was ignored. Considering you so obviously cherry picked the case you would find easier to make it is obvious you would ignore the person who was obviously more "defensive". Anyone who has played with me before will recognize based on largess of posts and tone of posts on if im on the offensive or defensive. Nice try lying though. As for my reason on why I believe you are scum? I told people to look at bugs' post that he had already made on you. As you ignored that bit I will toss it in here for all to read. Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 06:02 wherebugsgo wrote:On August 23 2012 05:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
These are my observations.
Town had absolutely no direction on Day 1, and no strong town leaders emerged.
This shows that scum weren't trying hard to seize thread control, and that scum were content with the way things were going. They didn't feel like they had to have any of their players act very pro-active and try to misdirect the town overtly. Meaning, that scum didn't feel threatened
So what does it mean that scum didn't feel threatened? It means that they didn't feel like they were in any danger of actually being killed/lynched. So, this tells us that either both major candidates were town, or that if Dirk is scum, mafia didn't think he would die.
That's pretty obvious though, as those are the only two possibilities, so here's my interpretation of the situation. There wasn't really any concrete push to kill imallinson as compared to Dirk. A lot of the people voting for them were saying they were fine with either dying, and there weren't really any large arguments comparing the merits of killing Dirk vs. imallinson. Both of the lynch trains developed in a way that was insular from the other. This means that who got lynched more or less would just come down to which wagon sheeping townies decided to hop on. This isn't a good situation for mafia because if they hope for chance it might mean that their own member gets bandwagoned to a point where they can't bring it back, or at least to a point where bringing it back puts them under a lot of suspicion. So in that situation, they would make a case for why lynching the townie was better than lynching their scum buddy to prevent the wagon from going the wrong way. But, no one did that. That implies to me that scum didn't care which person got lynched which further implies that both candidates were town.
Further supporting that, is the earlier observation that we didn't really get anything done on Day 1, no strong leaders emerged, and no direction was given. Scum are doing good just by having that happen, and it looks like they didn't feel the need to do anything else, because everything was going their way in terms of the bandwagons. They didn't have to fight for their buddy, because he wasn't up for the lynch.
In my opinion, at least one of the wagons was started by scum (BC/WBG). As well, I find it likely that the scum team split their vote between the two candidates for the most part in order to help prevent people from pointing out one of the lynches as a scum bandwagon, as well as to set themselves up as opposing each other to stop associative tells.
Right now I'm just waiting for the night to end, because kills and vig shots should hopefully clear the air a little and make things more transparent. I agree with most of this. Based on how the wagons went I don't think Dirkzor is scum. I unfortunately was not available to reverse-snowball the allinson lynch. From the looks of it I should've known he was town when so many people jumped on at once. I do disagree, however, with your assumption that one of the wagons was started by scum. #1, I'm town and that leaves BC (and I don't think he is scum ATM either). The fact that you casually push this is really disconcerting, though. You did nothing to stop either wagon and now you're seemingly trying to push blame and culpability based on weak and faulty assumptions onto myself + BC. If you legitimately thought one of us was scum then I'd expect you to actually come forth with reasons but you have simply seeded doubt. ___________________________________ I'm okay with Mattchew dying as he seems particularly lazy this game. From what I recall he doesn't like playing scum (and this was something he stressed in my games) so I think the case on him does have merit from a meta standpoint. I'm unsure what to think of Wiggles based on his last post since he seems to be making summaries that make sense, but making accusations that don't. If I die he should be watched carefully. Also if I die, newer players take note: Toad, BC, VE, bum, Kita, and Zephirdd are all also good targets to watch for in coming days as they are all capable as scum and are all harder to pin early. I would argue that if any of them seem "off their game" then they're probably scum. In particular I would rate Kita as the best scumhunter in this game, so if he's alive and somehow not dangerous to scum then he should be lynched immediately. So far he's done very little so it is certainly possible we may be going in thatdirection. Now his points on you are exactly why I believe you are scum. You see, you and I were on a mafia team once where you and I did exactly what bugs outlined in that post. Exactly to a fucking tee. You know you are caught, and you know I have already bagged another of your team and now you are running scared. Next we have you attempting to throw mud at me for wait, what? Day 1 early game posts? You know, when people were trolling and being faggots? Anyone reading would know those are my early reads based on how people are playing. If they had been solid reads backed up by more than a gut feeling you would have seen me build cases and push their lynch as I did dirkzor. You did notice I spent the majority of the day pushing one target right? Or are you opting to try and cover the fact that I have forced people into posting, pushed my best read, and even *gasp* put pressure on people for bad play. Anyone is free to look through my filter, then they can open and compare to yours. you have 13 posts as I am writing this (ignored your /in post) I have 41. I pushed my best read all day 1, I have called people out for being red. Yes I have called out many people based on random gut feelings or horrific play done by said player. Given that one of those gut reads was accurate and so far only 1 confirmed wrong I am doing fairly well. Who do you think is red wiggles? Me? Who else, lets see in all those 13 posts you You accuse myself and VE. In two game days, and all the content posted and given deaths of players and flips You have found two suspects. Yet you spend more time early on trying to link me to players like toad, make mention that you dislike my posting but rather than attempting to do anything about it you swap over to VE saying that you won't lynch grush until he answers your questions to verify his alignment basically. Yet hes back, hes been back for awhile. You know what you haven't done? What you said you were going to do. you also said this as your main argument to lynch VE Day 1 Show nested quote +On August 21 2012 16:47 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On August 21 2012 07:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
If there's no support for it, then I'll entertain the cases put forth. There isn't much more to say on the matter, and anyone who dwells on this should be put under scrutiny. It's a vote like any other vote, I've given my reasoning for it - it's up to you guys to convince me that your read on random player is better than my seething hatred for grush' playstyle. I can tell you without a doubt that attempting to bully me for it is not going to work. The problem with this is that it isn't about finding scum. As a townie, you're supposed to look at all available information and decide who is most likely to be scum. You don't say, "I don't like this guy, so I'm voting him and it's up to you to convince me to kill scum instead of him". You're taking any responsibility for having to do anything on Day 1 away from yourself and putting it onto other players. I'm surprised all the people voting for All-In Tim for deferring his opinion to the judgement of others aren't on you for the same thing. ##Vote: VE Note the bolded Parts Then go back and look at the section of bugs post above that I bolded. You directly are calling out two players for two bandwagons forming (no shit typically 1-2 people start analysis on someone that gets a vote rolling) However you specify the no strong leaders emerged while you yourself have done nothing til this point to help direct the town in any way. Thus you are putting onus on myself and bugs as you state one of us must be scum while leaving out the fact that you did absolutely nothing to stop the days actions. If you didn't agree or believed this while it was going on you as town would have put a stop to it rather than "summarizing the day" You also did exactly what you called VE out for as your primary reason to vote for him. Cute that you like inconsistencies. You claim that I am pushing misdirection off one post when you made one yourself doing the same (in regards to myself and bugs) you then do the exact same thing that you called out and voted to lynch someone for yet its ok for you to be hypocritical. Anyone can compare our filters. It is fairly obvious that I am around and as things happen I post on them. Be it lengthy or not is a moot point. Spotting someones scum tells/bad plays and calling them out don't require large post by post analysis, nor do they need indepth behavioural analysis when all you do is put heat on someone for said behaviour. Given that you are misrepresenting my posts, and have waited in the shadows to cherry pick while misrepresenting my posts shows how desperate your team is at this moment. Regardless you have outed yourself as scum and will die for it either by lynch or bullet. Its now merely up to the town. Also I would like to draw everyones attention to how he analyzed me. He took an insane care to talk about my case on dirkzor as minutely as possible. Keeping in mind I have spent more time talking about that lynch of all my reads than any of the others (thus my most comfortable read). Yet he ignores my longer posts and instead concentrates on the posts that are designed to initiate dialogue or minor pressure people. Why would someone who is so sure he is correct on his read not attempt to discredit my dirk case or find flaws in those posts as to why I am red? Simple. If he was town doing a post by post method he would opt to find the faulty logic or the like from where I had most invested myself rather than random small posts. As such he is banking on people not actually re reading day 1, or even both our filters to figure out how full of shit he is. Everyone should at this point in time be lynching dirkzor or mrwiggles Both will bleed red.
AMG BUT BC WUZ SHOT!1!!1!!!
Nobody cares. Maybe he was shot by town. Maybe by scum. It doesn't matter. Town shoots him because they think he's scum, scum shoot him because he's got good reads, scum shoot him to make Wiggles/Dirkzor look bad, there are enough explanations that the shot doesn't matter.
What DOES matter is that BC was town, and BC had a big ol' scumread on Wiggles. I haven't played with BC, but I'll trust Kenpachi on things like - + Show Spoiler +On August 23 2012 17:08 Kenpachi wrote:
you cant beat a town bc. hes a monster On August 24 2012 09:12 Kenpachi wrote:
uh.. i trust BC. im sorry but when he gets it going, hes probably the best player in the game.
Mr.Wiggles' play this game
There's not much to it. Light mentions of Grush, a few silly moments like his pokemon theme song. Two things that stick out to me are: - Not a ton of contributions. That alone isn't scummy, but keep it in mind. Small filter, most of it is responding to BC's case and calling out BC.
- Some ... silliness? Pokemon theme song, the bit on Chezinu being scummy - + Show Spoiler +
On August 20 2012 14:21 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 13:51 Chezinu wrote:On August 20 2012 09:08 Drazerk wrote:
Analysing how people join the thread is probably the most interesting part of the game Your right... Look what I discovered: On August 17 2012 15:06 wherebugsgo wrote:
/in On August 17 2012 15:06 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
/in They joined the g ame at the exact same time. The must be Mafia!Rocket peoples! You dastardly fiend, you've discovered the secret to my plan! But, you didn't count on one thing: You're also a member of Rocket People! You're our sleeper agent. You know it too. That's why you're subconsciously claiming scum. On August 24 2012 10:10 Mr. Wiggles wrote:I'm town. I even wrote a song for you about it. + Show Spoiler +I wanna be the very best,
Like no one ever was!
To catch them is my real test,
To lynch them is my cause!
I will read my way through the thread,
Searching far and wide
Each mafia to understand
The scummy that's inside!
Mafia, it's you and me!
I know it's my destiny!
Mafia, oh, you're my best friend
In our town we must defend!
Mafia, a heart so true!
Analysis will pull us through!
You're scummy and I'll lynch you,
Mafia, gotta lynch 'em all! - It's nowhere! Look at hi D1. Doesn't want to vote Grush or push him hard. Votes VE, then disappears. Doesn't try to get more votes, doesn't mention VE later. The vast majority of his play is responding to BC's case and fighting with BC. So we know he's putting effort into silliness, effort into responding to BC, effort into chiding town for how D1 played out + Show Spoiler +
On August 23 2012 05:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
These are my observations.
Town had absolutely no direction on Day 1, and no strong town leaders emerged.
This shows that scum weren't trying hard to seize thread control, and that scum were content with the way things were going. They didn't feel like they had to have any of their players act very pro-active and try to misdirect the town overtly. Meaning, that scum didn't feel threatened
So what does it mean that scum didn't feel threatened? It means that they didn't feel like they were in any danger of actually being killed/lynched. So, this tells us that either both major candidates were town, or that if Dirk is scum, mafia didn't think he would die.
That's pretty obvious though, as those are the only two possibilities, so here's my interpretation of the situation. There wasn't really any concrete push to kill imallinson as compared to Dirk. A lot of the people voting for them were saying they were fine with either dying, and there weren't really any large arguments comparing the merits of killing Dirk vs. imallinson. Both of the lynch trains developed in a way that was insular from the other. This means that who got lynched more or less would just come down to which wagon sheeping townies decided to hop on. This isn't a good situation for mafia because if they hope for chance it might mean that their own member gets bandwagoned to a point where they can't bring it back, or at least to a point where bringing it back puts them under a lot of suspicion. So in that situation, they would make a case for why lynching the townie was better than lynching their scum buddy to prevent the wagon from going the wrong way. But, no one did that. That implies to me that scum didn't care which person got lynched which further implies that both candidates were town.
Further supporting that, is the earlier observation that we didn't really get anything done on Day 1, no strong leaders emerged, and no direction was given. Scum are doing good just by having that happen, and it looks like they didn't feel the need to do anything else, because everything was going their way in terms of the bandwagons. They didn't have to fight for their buddy, because he wasn't up for the lynch.
In my opinion, at least one of the wagons was started by scum (BC/WBG). As well, I find it likely that the scum team split their vote between the two candidates for the most part in order to help prevent people from pointing out one of the lynches as a scum bandwagon, as well as to set themselves up as opposing each other to stop associative tells.
Right now I'm just waiting for the night to end, because kills and vig shots should hopefully clear the air a little and make things more transparent. - His play this game reminds me somewhat of his scum play in LV - here. Wiggles was GF, we elected him mayor, and he just sort of sat back all game. It was noticeable there because he was inactive yet voted mayor, but this game feels similar. He pops in N1 to chide town for day play. He pops in late D2 to talk about misder and hopeless. But there's just not much to hold him accountable for. His only strong read was BC, and BC is now dead. In LV, he made a lot of small/medium-size accusations of players, either picking off problematic town players or focusing on low-trust townies. This game? Some focus on problematic town players (BC) and also the focus on low-trust townies (mentions of Grush, posts on Hopeless). So (1) BC felt like Wiggles was scum because of his past scum play, but I wasn't in those games. (2) I feel like Wiggles is scum because of his past scum play, from a different game than BC was drawing from.
tl;dr - BC thought Wiggles was scum. BC was town. BC is apparently a very good town player. Wiggles has not been helpful this game, and his only period of activity was him sparring with BC. Wiggles' play feels similar to his scum play in LV, never at the forefront, picking off strong townies or weak townies, no focus in the middle. Wiggles has put effort into parodying the pokemon theme song and effort into defending himself from BC, but no real effort into the rest of the game.
I'll try and get more thoughts out today. Right now, I'm still not loving Misder's play. I'm mildly concerned about HiroPro, but need to look into that further. Filter is a lot of one-liners, some sheeping/questions, nothing really proactive. I don't like that I'm saying this, but got feeling is that...I might agree with Grush on BioSC. Not entirely sure there yet. Almost 100% convinced that Mementoss is town based on one thing he said, and I seem to have good luck when I get that feeling.
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