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A Bluelightz Mafia "The Attack" - Page 60

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Corazon
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States3230 Posts
July 24 2013 03:15 GMT
#1181
Ok this is really stupid...a town RB, 2 invest, and a vigilante. Someone is lying.

##Unvote

I'm going either Getmoript or TAA.
Grubby's #1 Fan
Onegu
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States9699 Posts
July 24 2013 03:21 GMT
#1182
On July 24 2013 12:15 cDgCorazon wrote:
Ok this is really stupid...a town RB, 2 invest, and a vigilante. Someone is lying.

##Unvote

I'm going either Getmoript or TAA.



How is it not TAA?
Try TL Mafia!!!
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
July 24 2013 03:28 GMT
#1183
On July 24 2013 12:21 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 24 2013 12:15 cDgCorazon wrote:
Ok this is really stupid...a town RB, 2 invest, and a vigilante. Someone is lying.

##Unvote

I'm going either Getmoript or TAA.



How is it not TAA?
Because it seems like fun to lynch geript and WoS here. Just for giggles.
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
July 24 2013 03:30 GMT
#1184
The timing on the first claim --> wait --> blue claim is curious. TAA, care to explain your initial post?
Fe fi fo fum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
July 24 2013 03:33 GMT
#1185
Yeah, TAA and I totally planned his idiotic claim together. I orchestrated it to make both of us look like scum so that we could be lynched in quick succession. What a great fucking idea!
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
July 24 2013 03:38 GMT
#1186
EBWOP: Post was addressed to getmoript. Whichever part of the hydra head made that idiotic last post of theirs.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
July 24 2013 03:54 GMT
#1187
On July 24 2013 12:33 FirmTofu wrote:
Yeah, TAA and I totally planned his idiotic claim together. I orchestrated it to make both of us look like scum so that we could be lynched in quick succession. What a great fucking idea!
Actually, that's exactly what it seems like.
On July 24 2013 07:52 FirmTofu wrote:
I'm not going to make a quoted point-by-point post about cDg because my scumread is not as strong as the other two.

His conversation with Oats made me think he was scummy because of how irrational his approach was. I still don't understand why you would check yourself for sanity when it barely tells you anything. You should be checking others, not yourself. You can figure out whether you're sane based on their flips and you get a plethora of useful information.

While I think getmoript may be lying about his claim, I think he is more likely to be a VT pushing a strong scum read in TAA.

I cannot think of a single good reason why cDg would claim as town given a getmoript claim unless he started to speculate upon roles.

That being said, I would much prefer to lynch jrkirby or TG today. I think we should hold of on lynching potential blues unless we are certain that one of them is scum.

That last line. Explain what you meant by potential blues? Considering TAA had yet to claim @ that point. Is there some reason you knew that TAA was potentially blue?
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
July 24 2013 04:01 GMT
#1188
On July 24 2013 12:33 FirmTofu wrote:
Yeah, TAA and I totally planned his idiotic claim together. I orchestrated it to make both of us look like scum so that we could be lynched in quick succession. What a great fucking idea!
If you were looking at some of the recent posts that you've made from the outside, they would look really odd and difficult to explain. They really look like you're trying to avoid lynching someone who was redchecked while not calling that person town/not distrusting the cop claim.

You may be town and Lieutenant Angrypants may be wrong in calling you scum, but your whole mindset on things since getmoript's claim has been funky. Everyone else isn't going one way because they're overlooking some likely scenario, imo.

Like, again,
On July 24 2013 08:06 FirmTofu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 24 2013 07:59 austinmcc wrote:
On July 24 2013 07:57 FirmTofu wrote:
If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask. If you want me to vote for anyone other than TG or jrkirby today, you're going to have to make a really solid case against them and convince me.
Given TAA's reaction post, you think it's more likely that:

(1) getmoript is not actually a cop, fakeclaiming a red check on a scumread of his, who responded in that manner but is town AND TG or jrkirby is scum (which I still agree with on TG)

than

(2) getmoript either is or isn't a cop, nobody cares, and TAA is scum

?

No, I don't think it is likely that getmoript is not actually a cop. I'm saying it is a definite possibility considering how adamant he has been about his read of TAA.

TAA could definitely be scum but considering that I have nothing to go off of except a cop role claim that may or may not be sane, I'm not willing to blindly follow the train on TAA just yet. If you can convince me of his alignment either way, I will definitely be willing to vote him.
It's not just about whether TAA is scum or not (and seriously, that reaction was super duper scummy).

You're going to vote someone, you're going to have a scumread SOMEWHERE. So it's not solely a question of whether TAA is town or scum. It's a question of whether you trust a different read of yours SO MUCH that you think it's more likely that read of yours is scum than TAA. All of TAA's posts don't HAVE to be scummy, there may be some things that are difficult to explain. But that's true of everyone (probably), and you're going to have that problem with any lynch candidate, TAA or whoever you would prefer.

You're almost hesitating about TAA because he may or may not be scum (before this claim stuff that you jumped on). But that's true of most anyone, and the combination of the possible check + definite reaction is, imo, a much larger indicator of scumdiddlyumptiousness than anything you can point out in another person's filter.

Note that his reaction wasn't that getmoript was LYING, wasn't that he's town and doesn't want to bother putting up a fight, but was that getmoript was cheating because he didn't even make a case. He didn't just get called scum and choose not to fight it (initially), he got called scum and responded by saying it was lame and getmoript should have made a case. The problem a townie has with a redcheck on them is "I'm not red." The problem a mafia member has with a redcheck on them is "Boooooooo."
Fe fi fo fum.
Onegu
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States9699 Posts
July 24 2013 04:09 GMT
#1189
@Austin it looks like you are just explaining to firm why TAA is scum... Does thismake you feel a scumread on Tofu?
Try TL Mafia!!!
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
July 24 2013 04:17 GMT
#1190
On July 24 2013 12:54 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 24 2013 12:33 FirmTofu wrote:
Yeah, TAA and I totally planned his idiotic claim together. I orchestrated it to make both of us look like scum so that we could be lynched in quick succession. What a great fucking idea!
Actually, that's exactly what it seems like.
Show nested quote +
On July 24 2013 07:52 FirmTofu wrote:
I'm not going to make a quoted point-by-point post about cDg because my scumread is not as strong as the other two.

His conversation with Oats made me think he was scummy because of how irrational his approach was. I still don't understand why you would check yourself for sanity when it barely tells you anything. You should be checking others, not yourself. You can figure out whether you're sane based on their flips and you get a plethora of useful information.

While I think getmoript may be lying about his claim, I think he is more likely to be a VT pushing a strong scum read in TAA.

I cannot think of a single good reason why cDg would claim as town given a getmoript claim unless he started to speculate upon roles.

That being said, I would much prefer to lynch jrkirby or TG today. I think we should hold of on lynching potential blues unless we are certain that one of them is scum.

That last line. Explain what you meant by potential blues? Considering TAA had yet to claim @ that point. Is there some reason you knew that TAA was potentially blue?

No, I didn't know TAA was potentially blue. TAA was null-scum at that time, but not in my top 3 scumreads(Close, but not quite there). When he claimed blue, specifically roleblocker, I knew he had to be axed.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
July 24 2013 04:18 GMT
#1191
On July 24 2013 13:09 Onegu wrote:
@Austin it looks like you are just explaining to firm why TAA is scum... Does thismake you feel a scumread on Tofu?
I don't know. Been at trivia last few hours and haven't fully processed the odd RB claim and Tofu's continued insistence that TAA might be scummy but his reaction was totally cool and maybe he's not scum and everyone else should make cases including references to these specific posts.

That started out a much smaller post, and then I kept finding things that I was confused about, but yeah, in some ways that's me overexplaining why TAA is scum.

Honestly I mostly want to sit back and watch some of these claims play out. There's a lot of information that we get as to whether these are real or fake claims, and I'm not the most motivated right now to hunt everyone everywhere when I think there's scum getting lynched, which will then inform us about other scum based on the flip and whether he's actually a RB of any alignment, and then we move from there.
Fe fi fo fum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
July 24 2013 04:22 GMT
#1192
On July 24 2013 13:01 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 24 2013 12:33 FirmTofu wrote:
Yeah, TAA and I totally planned his idiotic claim together. I orchestrated it to make both of us look like scum so that we could be lynched in quick succession. What a great fucking idea!
If you were looking at some of the recent posts that you've made from the outside, they would look really odd and difficult to explain. They really look like you're trying to avoid lynching someone who was redchecked while not calling that person town/not distrusting the cop claim.

You may be town and Lieutenant Angrypants may be wrong in calling you scum, but your whole mindset on things since getmoript's claim has been funky. Everyone else isn't going one way because they're overlooking some likely scenario, imo.

Like, again,
Show nested quote +
On July 24 2013 08:06 FirmTofu wrote:
On July 24 2013 07:59 austinmcc wrote:
On July 24 2013 07:57 FirmTofu wrote:
If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask. If you want me to vote for anyone other than TG or jrkirby today, you're going to have to make a really solid case against them and convince me.
Given TAA's reaction post, you think it's more likely that:

(1) getmoript is not actually a cop, fakeclaiming a red check on a scumread of his, who responded in that manner but is town AND TG or jrkirby is scum (which I still agree with on TG)

than

(2) getmoript either is or isn't a cop, nobody cares, and TAA is scum

?

No, I don't think it is likely that getmoript is not actually a cop. I'm saying it is a definite possibility considering how adamant he has been about his read of TAA.

TAA could definitely be scum but considering that I have nothing to go off of except a cop role claim that may or may not be sane, I'm not willing to blindly follow the train on TAA just yet. If you can convince me of his alignment either way, I will definitely be willing to vote him.
It's not just about whether TAA is scum or not (and seriously, that reaction was super duper scummy).

You're going to vote someone, you're going to have a scumread SOMEWHERE. So it's not solely a question of whether TAA is town or scum. It's a question of whether you trust a different read of yours SO MUCH that you think it's more likely that read of yours is scum than TAA. All of TAA's posts don't HAVE to be scummy, there may be some things that are difficult to explain. But that's true of everyone (probably), and you're going to have that problem with any lynch candidate, TAA or whoever you would prefer.

You're almost hesitating about TAA because he may or may not be scum (before this claim stuff that you jumped on). But that's true of most anyone, and the combination of the possible check + definite reaction is, imo, a much larger indicator of scumdiddlyumptiousness than anything you can point out in another person's filter.

Note that his reaction wasn't that getmoript was LYING, wasn't that he's town and doesn't want to bother putting up a fight, but was that getmoript was cheating because he didn't even make a case. He didn't just get called scum and choose not to fight it (initially), he got called scum and responded by saying it was lame and getmoript should have made a case. The problem a townie has with a redcheck on them is "I'm not red." The problem a mafia member has with a redcheck on them is "Boooooooo."

Bolded relevant.
At the time, I trusted my reads of jrkirby and TanGeng to enough to offset the likelihood that all of the following were true regarding getmoript:
1) Telling the truth about his claim
2) Target was not framed
3) Is a sane cop(implying not paranoid/insane)

The probability of all of these events occurring simultaneously was not particularly high in my mind, so I thought that it was be best to trust my own scumreads before jumping on getmoript's wagon.

You make good points about TAA, all of which I have considered and are part of the reason why I'm currently voting for him.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
July 24 2013 04:24 GMT
#1193
Honestly, this reminds me of times where someone reacts INCREDIBLY WEIRD/WRONG to a claim, and then ends up being town but we killify them because ... nobody can understand what they were going on about. There was a game where mattchew claimed self-aware miller on D1 when millers weren't self-aware. He got lynched, flipped scum.

Someone spent a long time either arguing that he wasn't definitely scum or ... something else, calling other people out, not understanding why fake claiming a thing that didn't exist was just a 100% scum tell. It was such a huge distraction and he was so adamant that he was right that I ended up vigging him N1 because I could not believe he was town.

Turns out, he was town. We were all scummy on him because he made no sense regarding a claim, but it doesn't make sense to make no sense as mafia when confronted with a claim. It's just not the way to go about trying to save a scumbuddy.

So right now I'm unsure, will look over his filter a couple times tomorrow and wait for this flip.
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
July 24 2013 04:27 GMT
#1194
LVII. Ottoxlol.
Fe fi fo fum.
getmoript
Profile Joined March 2013
1016 Posts
July 24 2013 04:32 GMT
#1195
Except that after my claim and before his claim, most of this was pointed out to you. VE and I both were like, "wow, dude just claimed scum" and you were all like "Well it doesn't make him scum. I could see him as newbie town or maybe scum or maybe town or let's see how this plays out." It looks just like you want to equally wait and see how this all plays out, neither push for TAA's lynch nor push against TAA's lynch. That's sheer scum motivation. Town will take some sort of hard stance and try and reason things out. But you haven't been listening to reason whatsoever and only magically, when he claims RB, that's the nail in the coffin for you. Come on dude.
Hydra of geript and Cavalinho
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
July 24 2013 04:34 GMT
#1196
I disagree. I think I am the only one who is reacting correctly to getmoript's claim, accusation, and TAA's initial feeble defense.

Here is the quote in question.
On July 24 2013 06:21 TheAwesomeAll wrote:
claiming detective instead of making a case is cheating

The correct rational town response is to consider whether:
1) Town would do this when accused.
2) Scum would do this when accused.

1-> This is bad town play. Town probably wouldn't do this when accused. The correct town play would be to post a defense of themselves and counter-attack their accuser.
2-> Scum wouldn't do this when accused either. This is terrible scum play. Why would they bring about unwarranted suspicion upon themselves?

Thus, we can conclude that TAA's post is bad, but not 100% alignment indicative. It's bad play, sure, but I don't think you can say that it implicates him beyond reasonable doubt.

As time went on, I started to grow on the TAA lynch. TAA didn't defend himself for a long time, making me more suspicious of him.

The nail in the coffin came when he claimed blue. It was far too convenient. TG had just claimed rb'd and it looks like TAA is using the claim as an opportunity to exonerate himself. Add to this that a bunch of other blues have already claimed that look less scummy than he does and I no longer could justify not lynching him.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
getmoript
Profile Joined March 2013
1016 Posts
July 24 2013 04:35 GMT
#1197
No dude, you're wrong. There are lots of times when it's correct to claim scum when caught. You'd be amazed how much you can fuck up and derail a thread after you claim scum.
Hydra of geript and Cavalinho
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
July 24 2013 04:36 GMT
#1198
So what would scum do FT?
No gg, No skill.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
July 24 2013 04:37 GMT
#1199
Scum inherently knows they're scum. You get called out when you're scum, especially if you aren't used to it, and your mindset is "Oh crap, I got caught." It's terrible scum play, yes, but it's a product of you KNOWING you're scum, KNOWING a check is real.

Just because it isn't good scum play doesn't mean it's not human nature. It's FAR more likely to come from scum because of mindset.
Fe fi fo fum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
July 24 2013 04:41 GMT
#1200
On July 24 2013 13:35 getmoript wrote:
No dude, you're wrong. There are lots of times when it's correct to claim scum when caught. You'd be amazed how much you can fuck up and derail a thread after you claim scum.

I am unfamiliar with the meta on this site. Do scum actually do this?
On July 24 2013 13:36 Oatsmaster wrote:
So what would scum do FT?

Good scum would try to mimic the correct town response as closely as possible to make their response and a town's response in their situation virtually indistinguishable.
On July 24 2013 13:37 austinmcc wrote:
Scum inherently knows they're scum. You get called out when you're scum, especially if you aren't used to it, and your mindset is "Oh crap, I got caught." It's terrible scum play, yes, but it's a product of you KNOWING you're scum, KNOWING a check is real.

Just because it isn't good scum play doesn't mean it's not human nature. It's FAR more likely to come from scum because of mindset.

This is a fair point. I hadn't considered that.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
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