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@DP
I am surprised more of you didn;t go WTF when you read this I think only HAPA did. But this demonstrates a scum mindset.
With me. I start many cases feel that they aren't working and move on maybe saving some things for later.
The way he express how he went about his case on me Is how scum feel when making cases. It doesn;t really work but you push through and try to find things that stick.
To me this is a quite revealing mindset possessed by clarity.
This has already been explained by Clarity. After rereading, you should see what he means.
Also, DP
I find it odd how you say all day that you don't want to push a read, but now you do. From what I thought, I believed you said that you would come in n1/d2 to post more. Yet, you are doing it here an hour before lynch.
Why?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
DP said he'd come back before lynch
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Marv I realize you're not at risk of getting lynched but it's not a difficult question to answer, why would you be willing to consolidate on cross?
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On November 15 2012 10:00 debears wrote:@DPShow nested quote +I am surprised more of you didn;t go WTF when you read this I think only HAPA did. But this demonstrates a scum mindset.
With me. I start many cases feel that they aren't working and move on maybe saving some things for later.
The way he express how he went about his case on me Is how scum feel when making cases. It doesn;t really work but you push through and try to find things that stick.
To me this is a quite revealing mindset possessed by clarity.
This has already been explained by Clarity. After rereading, you should see what he means. Also, DP I find it odd how you say all day that you don't want to push a read, but now you do. From what I thought, I believed you said that you would come in n1/d2 to post more. Yet, you are doing it here an hour before lynch. Why?
you didnt just fucking say that did you if someone wants to contribute let him fucking contribute.
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On November 15 2012 10:03 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:00 debears wrote:@DPI am surprised more of you didn;t go WTF when you read this I think only HAPA did. But this demonstrates a scum mindset.
With me. I start many cases feel that they aren't working and move on maybe saving some things for later.
The way he express how he went about his case on me Is how scum feel when making cases. It doesn;t really work but you push through and try to find things that stick.
To me this is a quite revealing mindset possessed by clarity.
This has already been explained by Clarity. After rereading, you should see what he means. Also, DP I find it odd how you say all day that you don't want to push a read, but now you do. From what I thought, I believed you said that you would come in n1/d2 to post more. Yet, you are doing it here an hour before lynch. Why? you didnt just fucking say that did you if someone wants to contribute let him fucking contribute.
I'm not questioning him contributing. I am asking him if he actually meant before lynch or after lynch
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On November 15 2012 09:58 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 09:50 Hapahauli wrote:http://postimage.org/image/9ilt0jqpt/Hapa = Melvin Z-Bo = Paulo The above is a small snip of a skype convo we had a few weeks back. I obviously don't want to screenshot the whole thing (it goes on a while), but this should get the gist of it - Z-Bo really wanted to play a less-active style of play and was running it by me (I advised against it, but he was unconvinced throughout). This makes me think that this could be town Z-Bo. I know what Ver's guide says about the random 1-liners and what not but I really just disagree with it in this specific case. I think it's just a product of him wanting to post less. He could be scum, but at the end of the day, debears is much scummier to me. that all from the skype conversation? He doesn't really say much about changing his style fundamentally there just that he is going to post less and he failed to do so.
Oh also, it doesn't really look like some "fundamental" change to me. He's just posting less, and his individual posts are longer. When you do that, the "fundamental" changes that marv points out (i.e. lack of jokes) are a pretty natural outcome.
Like I can see him being scum here, but based on our conversations, I think he can do this as town.
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Allright let's consolidate.
Hapa, this post by debears: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=53#1054
And his interaction with you really makes me think he is town. Do you remember our newbie game? I started finding him scum, and he disagreed heavily with my logic, and focused on me based on that (and my case was very similar to yours: weak weak reasoning for his suspicious actions).
That post I cited makes me think the same. He seems like he genuinely thinks you as scum, and he really really disagrees with your logic. This is almost analogous, and I'd really not want to lynch him now.
Regarding DP, I'm not sure about that marv. debears was getting hammered on, and one of the argumetns was "weak over-explanation" for a case. As scum, he could easily have felt that if he sheeped, he would look a lot more scummier, so he went ahead with an original case on someone with little suspicion on him. I'm going to go read the rest of his filter now.
What is the reasoning on crossfire? A policy lynch? Isn't he just going to go get himself replaced?
If I were to policy lynch, I'd go with thrawn, who hasn't done anything all game and is null in his posting.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On November 15 2012 10:01 Clarity_nl wrote:
Marv I realize you're not at risk of getting lynched but it's not a difficult question to answer, why would you be willing to consolidate on cross?
basically to lynch a lurker
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On November 15 2012 10:03 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 09:58 iamperfection wrote:On November 15 2012 09:50 Hapahauli wrote:http://postimage.org/image/9ilt0jqpt/Hapa = Melvin Z-Bo = Paulo The above is a small snip of a skype convo we had a few weeks back. I obviously don't want to screenshot the whole thing (it goes on a while), but this should get the gist of it - Z-Bo really wanted to play a less-active style of play and was running it by me (I advised against it, but he was unconvinced throughout). This makes me think that this could be town Z-Bo. I know what Ver's guide says about the random 1-liners and what not but I really just disagree with it in this specific case. I think it's just a product of him wanting to post less. He could be scum, but at the end of the day, debears is much scummier to me. that all from the skype conversation? He doesn't really say much about changing his style fundamentally there just that he is going to post less and he failed to do so. Oh also, it doesn't really look like some "fundamental" change to me. He's just posting less, and his individual posts are longer. When you do that, the "fundamental" changes that marv points out (i.e. lack of jokes) are a pretty natural outcome. Like I can see him being scum here, but based on our conversations, I think he can do this as town.
Well from my own play i find it very difficult to change stylistically i was able to keep it up for a while in gsl III but really the wheels fell off pretty quickly when im expected to not give a fuck about suspicion on me and to be funny all the time.
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Hey guys look at all of Hopeless's contributions getting near lynch
+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:00 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:56 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 15 2012 08:55 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 15 2012 08:53 Hapahauli wrote:That's fucking rediculous debears. I have no idea why I'm going to respond to it, but hopefully I can show the thread how desperate you are right now: 1) "Overkill" case: I've used this in my TOWN games. It is not about "scumhunting too hard" at all. Rockband Mini for reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=40#7962) I'm scummy because my case isn't based around debears meta. ROFL. 3) Next post. No meta. Just an assumption that iamp was my top scumread because iamp had more content and that I didn't vote him, which he sees as scummy ROFL at no meta again. ROFL at not responding to my relevant case AGAIN. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=47#9374) ISN'T THAT THE PROBLEM? HOPELESS HAS BEEN AROUND AND HAS ZERO CONTENT AGAIN, Hopeless is very capable of doing this as town.
But to all the townies out there, please read debears "case." He thinks I"m scummy because I'm not using a fucking meta read on him. But here's a meta read - debears is active as town OR scum, but what's distinguishing is his logic. This is a prime example of the crazy illogical things he uses to put suspicion on people as scum. You've just committed to showing shitty logic from scum debears =\ It's rather hard to post perfect logic when you're scum and you HAVE to show suspicion of confirmed townies. What's your point? That debears is going to rage at OMG META READ WITH NO EXAMPLES On November 15 2012 09:21 Hopeless1der wrote:
@Marv's case on Z-Boson - Quite frankly, if it saves me, I'll vote Z-boson, otherwise my vote stays parked on debears. I still think Z-Bo is town though, I just happen to know I'm town. On November 15 2012 08:55 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:53 Hapahauli wrote:That's fucking rediculous debears. I have no idea why I'm going to respond to it, but hopefully I can show the thread how desperate you are right now: 1) "Overkill" case: I've used this in my TOWN games. It is not about "scumhunting too hard" at all. Rockband Mini for reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=40#7962) I'm scummy because my case isn't based around debears meta. ROFL. 3) Next post. No meta. Just an assumption that iamp was my top scumread because iamp had more content and that I didn't vote him, which he sees as scummy ROFL at no meta again. ROFL at not responding to my relevant case AGAIN. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=47#9374) ISN'T THAT THE PROBLEM? HOPELESS HAS BEEN AROUND AND HAS ZERO CONTENT AGAIN, Hopeless is very capable of doing this as town.
But to all the townies out there, please read debears "case." He thinks I"m scummy because I'm not using a fucking meta read on him. But here's a meta read - debears is active as town OR scum, but what's distinguishing is his logic. This is a prime example of the crazy illogical things he uses to put suspicion on people as scum. You've just committed to showing shitty logic from scum debears =\ On November 15 2012 08:24 Hopeless1der wrote:
On my way home, back in an hour ish On November 15 2012 08:24 Hopeless1der wrote:
On my way home, back in an hour ish
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Yeah, so I just started to write the below post at school when the internet crapped out on me + Show Spoiler + and I could no longer to connect to team liquid. I just got home, so I am posting this now.
On November 15 2012 03:11 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 03:04 strongandbig wrote:AT: "this is a dumb town claim but a dumber scum claim" I have yet to see why this is true. I addressed in this post why BH specifically would make this fakeclaim as scum right now. To summarize, it's a combination of reasons: he really enjoys trolling, and he knows how good of an idea making an unverifiable fakeclaim is as scum under pressure in the current TL meta. your argument "if he's alive in a few days" is terrible. if, in theory, he was town, there would be no reason for scum to kill him above anyone else; they could just roleblock him forever now that he's claimed, and he's taking enough heat that town doesn't get any kind of "confirmed townie" advantage from having him alive. all that said, debears is still my second lynch choice. I guess I should say more about him than "kenpachi rule", but I won't right now because I don't have time. That's cool. Second scum read for no reason. Good scumhunting. Here's my problem with lynching BH today. Why the fuck would the scum risk a teammate on a jk claim, out of all claims this early d1? 1) They have no/little power roles so they don't believe there are many blues this games. Even that is a retarded assumption because the roles on one side don't necessarily affect the roles on another. a. They are a weak scumteam and believe they can't win by pure ability b. They feel like fucking around with a fakeclaim c. They wanted to out the jk/rb day1 d. BH felt honestly at threat even though he has 2 teammates that can help him e. They want to give town plenty of time to counterclaim Those three reasons are dogshit reasons to do it. I see number one as most plausible 2)There is no 2 for mafia. cuz nothing else makes sense Why would town BH claim so early? 1) He's being dumb 2) He doesn't feel like fighting off a lynch 3) He can help eliminate a lynch option day 1 when he knows he fucked up Both views are retarded. The mafia view requires WAY more assumptions. Ockham's razor brah
I don't know if the mafia way requires more assumptions. Even if it does and "seems" like the least likely option it might not be. I'll give you two examples from my two recent games.
In Aperature 2, the godfather was lynched day 1 with 4 votes with me being the hammer. It was plurality lynch with 13 players. There was assumed to be a 3 man scum team (which there was btw, even if there was only a 2 man scum team, my point still holds). I wasn't scum (I was 3rd party) and I assumed that there was no way that the other 3 guys were scum. It made no sense to me because all they had to do was switch off onto someone else with 2 votes before I voted (I voted very late day 1 IIRC), and then that guy was going to be lynched. It turns out there was a scum bussing the godfather day 1 because of extenuating irl circumstances for the godfather.
In my last game, WLIIA, strong claimed blue night 1 as scum and we all believed him because his name claim matched with the other blues in the game. I even made a post attacking the two remaining "non confirmed" townies in the game because one of them had to be scum. Even though they both played really townie and I said so in my cases on them, it still was the "most likely" solution. It turns out it wasn't the case and I eventually began to doubt strong's claim, which was the right thing to do.
Both of those examples show that just because something seems "more likely" doesn't mean it is so. We don't know what is going on in the mafia qt, so we just have to look for scummy behavior. We have found scummy behavior in blazing. Strong went over this in the post listed below.
+ Show Spoiler + On November 14 2012 23:06 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 12:39 Blazinghand wrote:
anyone who would lynch a claimed blue D1 has serious issues that sir is what's called "pushing your luck" Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 13:31 Blazinghand wrote:
Thrawn is more right than he's wrong. More stalling, excuses, and mentioning other games in progress from DP.
##unvote
##vote: Darthpunk BH posted this after reading exactly the same explanation from DP that I read, and exactly the same comments on DP's meta from marv as I read, and doing exactly the same amount of work looking into DP's actual scum/town meta as I did (none) - and yet he comes up with a vote? Without at all addressing the points from Marv and from himself about DP's meta? And without addressing the other game in progress issue - which isn't an "unverifiable irl excuse," we can go look at the thread - and yet he comes up with a vote? guys what we have out of BH is not just a scummy and needless claim - we have a scummy and needless claim from a player who isn't playing up to his usual town standard in several ways - bad cases - trolling/fluff while taking the easy opportunity to gain points by attacking other people for fluff and most importantly - the huge mismatch in thread presence, thread control, and town organization between BH's last town game (whose line) and this game And then we have Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 12:39 Blazinghand wrote:
anyone who would lynch a claimed blue D1 has serious issues BH psychology: he just saw me do well - not win, except for self-declaring victory, but do much better than I should have given how the game started out - he saw me do well by fakeclaiming blue and then really pushing that fakeclaim hard. He also just had what I assume must be a trollgasm from evoking ridiculous reactions from Keirathi in that same game. Now he's claimed blue for no good reason, and it's a blue role that he can "verify" easily by withholding KP, or that he can make unverifiable by claiming to be roleblocked. There's no way a town BH decides "there are 3 or 4 votes on me, like 30 hours before the lynch - time to claim!" I just don't believe that thought process is real. ##vote: blazinghand
This post on blazing is making me change my mind about strong. I like his reasoning and I now see him as more townie than scummy. He did post a lot of unnecessary fluff and one liners, but I did that in my last game, WLIIA, and I was town.
##Vote Blazinghand
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What's happening? What do I need to look at? I think there's an 1hr left. I have no idea what happened in like the last 5 hours or so. What is the most pressing case I need to read?
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On November 15 2012 10:06 Crossfire99 wrote:Yeah, so I just started to write the below post at school when the internet crapped out on me + Show Spoiler + and I could no longer to connect to team liquid. I just got home, so I am posting this now. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 03:11 debears wrote:On November 15 2012 03:04 strongandbig wrote:AT: "this is a dumb town claim but a dumber scum claim" I have yet to see why this is true. I addressed in this post why BH specifically would make this fakeclaim as scum right now. To summarize, it's a combination of reasons: he really enjoys trolling, and he knows how good of an idea making an unverifiable fakeclaim is as scum under pressure in the current TL meta. your argument "if he's alive in a few days" is terrible. if, in theory, he was town, there would be no reason for scum to kill him above anyone else; they could just roleblock him forever now that he's claimed, and he's taking enough heat that town doesn't get any kind of "confirmed townie" advantage from having him alive. all that said, debears is still my second lynch choice. I guess I should say more about him than "kenpachi rule", but I won't right now because I don't have time. That's cool. Second scum read for no reason. Good scumhunting. Here's my problem with lynching BH today. Why the fuck would the scum risk a teammate on a jk claim, out of all claims this early d1? 1) They have no/little power roles so they don't believe there are many blues this games. Even that is a retarded assumption because the roles on one side don't necessarily affect the roles on another. a. They are a weak scumteam and believe they can't win by pure ability b. They feel like fucking around with a fakeclaim c. They wanted to out the jk/rb day1 d. BH felt honestly at threat even though he has 2 teammates that can help him e. They want to give town plenty of time to counterclaim Those three reasons are dogshit reasons to do it. I see number one as most plausible 2)There is no 2 for mafia. cuz nothing else makes sense Why would town BH claim so early? 1) He's being dumb 2) He doesn't feel like fighting off a lynch 3) He can help eliminate a lynch option day 1 when he knows he fucked up Both views are retarded. The mafia view requires WAY more assumptions. Ockham's razor brah I don't know if the mafia way requires more assumptions. Even if it does and "seems" like the least likely option it might not be. I'll give you two examples from my two recent games. In Aperature 2, the godfather was lynched day 1 with 4 votes with me being the hammer. It was plurality lynch with 13 players. There was assumed to be a 3 man scum team (which there was btw, even if there was only a 2 man scum team, my point still holds). I wasn't scum (I was 3rd party) and I assumed that there was no way that the other 3 guys were scum. It made no sense to me because all they had to do was switch off onto someone else with 2 votes before I voted (I voted very late day 1 IIRC), and then that guy was going to be lynched. It turns out there was a scum bussing the godfather day 1 because of extenuating irl circumstances for the godfather. In my last game, WLIIA, strong claimed blue night 1 as scum and we all believed him because his name claim matched with the other blues in the game. I even made a post attacking the two remaining "non confirmed" townies in the game because one of them had to be scum. Even though they both played really townie and I said so in my cases on them, it still was the "most likely" solution. It turns out it wasn't the case and I eventually began to doubt strong's claim, which was the right thing to do. Both of those examples show that just because something seems "more likely" doesn't mean it is so. We don't know what is going on in the mafia qt, so we just have to look for scummy behavior. We have found scummy behavior in blazing. Strong went over this in the post listed below. + Show Spoiler + On November 14 2012 23:06 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 12:39 Blazinghand wrote:
anyone who would lynch a claimed blue D1 has serious issues that sir is what's called "pushing your luck" Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 13:31 Blazinghand wrote:
Thrawn is more right than he's wrong. More stalling, excuses, and mentioning other games in progress from DP.
##unvote
##vote: Darthpunk BH posted this after reading exactly the same explanation from DP that I read, and exactly the same comments on DP's meta from marv as I read, and doing exactly the same amount of work looking into DP's actual scum/town meta as I did (none) - and yet he comes up with a vote? Without at all addressing the points from Marv and from himself about DP's meta? And without addressing the other game in progress issue - which isn't an "unverifiable irl excuse," we can go look at the thread - and yet he comes up with a vote? guys what we have out of BH is not just a scummy and needless claim - we have a scummy and needless claim from a player who isn't playing up to his usual town standard in several ways - bad cases - trolling/fluff while taking the easy opportunity to gain points by attacking other people for fluff and most importantly - the huge mismatch in thread presence, thread control, and town organization between BH's last town game (whose line) and this game And then we have Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 12:39 Blazinghand wrote:
anyone who would lynch a claimed blue D1 has serious issues BH psychology: he just saw me do well - not win, except for self-declaring victory, but do much better than I should have given how the game started out - he saw me do well by fakeclaiming blue and then really pushing that fakeclaim hard. He also just had what I assume must be a trollgasm from evoking ridiculous reactions from Keirathi in that same game. Now he's claimed blue for no good reason, and it's a blue role that he can "verify" easily by withholding KP, or that he can make unverifiable by claiming to be roleblocked. There's no way a town BH decides "there are 3 or 4 votes on me, like 30 hours before the lynch - time to claim!" I just don't believe that thought process is real. ##vote: blazinghand This post on blazing is making me change my mind about strong. I like his reasoning and I now see him as more townie than scummy. He did post a lot of unnecessary fluff and one liners, but I did that in my last game, WLIIA, and I was town. ##Vote Blazinghand
its not happening bro.
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On November 15 2012 10:07 Clarity_nl wrote:
BLAZINGHAND? REALLY?!
Dude I wasn't here because my internet crapped out. I just pasted my post and now I need to see what is going on. I'll change it if there's a better case.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
##unvote
##vote: crossfire99
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Okay, well first off unvote Blazing because that's not happening. Read Hapa's cases, debears responses and cases on hopeless. Read marv's case on zbo.
Your choices currently are: debears, hopeless, zbo
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Ugh. If no one will vote hopeless
##Unvote
##Vote Crossfire99
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On November 15 2012 10:08 marvellosity wrote:
##unvote
##vote: crossfire99
you really think after that shit he is scum. He seems pretty clueless to me.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bZXRx.jpg)
