EBWOP: And Harry, don't try to turn my logic around on me, my vote was based on your suspicious vote.

Your quote on Hopeless wasn't what I'd call a real reason to vote for someone who's at least being active, and not particularly suspicious.

Voting for him that way makes you look scummy, considering you've said nothing of real substance yet.

Hopeless1der

United States5836 Posts

July 04 2012 23:05 GMT

#102

Yeah if it was just another FoS, who cares, but a straight up VOTE? Oh man thats harsh. btw, who's this hopeless guy? I'm Hopeless1der =P

And seriously, Lazer's long "DONT FAKECLAIM" was followed by "role claim by claiming your role if your blue". It just sounded weird in that context so I took a stab. YourHarry pointed out multiple ways I could have interpreted it that would have been fine.

I'm gonna stick with a FoS YourHarry for now. I really can't see his vote sticking to me like that so early when we're still waiting for half the people to start posting.

JingleHell

United States11308 Posts

July 04 2012 23:07 GMT

#103

And no, I don't play on mafiascum. But the vote against Hopeless looks like an effort to kick off the D1 bandwagon, since you hadn't contributed anything of substance prior, he hadn't said anything worth attacking, and if we're going to risk a bandwagon mislynch, we should at least aim it at a lurker who's passively a detriment, or based on scummy behavior. Like yours.

Hopeless1der

United States5836 Posts

July 04 2012 23:07 GMT

#104

Do votes still count if they're aka's or do we have to check our spelling?

YourHarry

United States1152 Posts

July 04 2012 23:10 GMT

#105

To be honest, my vote on Hopeless1der was not based on anything substantial. A townie may have thought that original post was contradictory. At the most, the only scummy action that I could have extracted from Hopeless1der's post is his seeming motivation to start a bandwagon against lazer. Even if lazer's post was somewhat contradictory, that does not make him scummy. Contradiction does not mean scum.

Also, this is my first game in TL, but I did play a few games on mafiascum.net where random voting on D1 is prevalent. My voting on Hopless1der was to see his and others' reactions.

Radfield

Canada2720 Posts

July 04 2012 23:12 GMT

#106

On July 05 2012 08:07 Hopeless1der wrote:
Do votes still count if they're aka's or do we have to check our spelling?

Exact spelling is not necessary. As long as it's blatantly obvious who you are voting for.

JingleHell

United States11308 Posts

July 04 2012 23:13 GMT

#107

I couldn't care less how many games you've played on mafiascum. As it turns out, in newbie games on TL, D1 bandwagons have a tendency to be lethal, particularly if there's no substance to the case to defend against. As such, it's better to target someone who's being either actively or passively useless, not somebody who's at least jumping into the deep end.

In particular, compared to his play in a different game, where he seemed painfully scummy, Hopeless1der seems like he's heading for direct contribution.

JingleHell

United States11308 Posts

July 04 2012 23:14 GMT

#108

Or, of course, a read. Even a minor one, since it can at least be debunked by good play. Just avoid something that shows a vote that was never defended against.

YourHarry

United States1152 Posts

July 04 2012 23:16 GMT

#109

OK, I will quickly browse XIX game to see if I agree with you. But we should keep in mind that, players do evolve. He might be scum in both XIX and this game, but behave completely differently.

Of course, a stronger case can be made if your meta is based on many games on an experienced player. But when dealing with new players, not sure how much info we can gain from it. Still, I will give it a read.

JingleHell

United States11308 Posts

July 04 2012 23:18 GMT

#110

Oh, and bear in mind, I won't do this if a case gets made. I let people make their own counter-claim. I only stepped in because I see random D1 votes as so dangerous in our newbie games.

YourHarry

United States1152 Posts

July 04 2012 23:22 GMT

#111

BTW, in XIX hopeless1der is still alive and he may be town. So the meta will not be useful until his alignment becomes known, at least unless you have a strong read on his alignment in XIX.

BTW, is it OK to reference ongoing games?

Hopeless1der

United States5836 Posts

July 04 2012 23:24 GMT

#112

Someone asked that question in another NMM. The answer there was that its okay for "meta purposes" but not to show "hes posting over there, but lurking here!"

Be back later, don't want to spend the night at work.

JingleHell

United States11308 Posts

July 04 2012 23:24 GMT

#113

I assume as long as you don't reference stuff from QTs, it's just the risk of multiple games. As you pointed out, there's a slight risk in using it for meta purposes, so it goes both ways.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

July 04 2012 23:25 GMT

#114

@Mackin, Evulrabbitz: Care to post something that doesn't involve strange player-names? So far Evul got 5 posts and Mackin 4 but all of them have basically been fluff.

The only post concerning the game was Mackin saying that he thought I was contradicting myself, although never explained why.

YourHarry

United States1152 Posts

July 04 2012 23:27 GMT

#115

On July 05 2012 08:18 JingleHell wrote:
Oh, and bear in mind, I won't do this if a case gets made. I let people make their own counter-claim. I only stepped in because I see random D1 votes as so dangerous in our newbie games.

Random D1 votes may be dangerous. But even if the random vote somehow starts a bandwagon, who knows, maybe I got the scum by chance. But more importantly, it allows for more substantial discussions. Often times, scums under pressure gives off scum odor.

JingleHell

United States11308 Posts

July 04 2012 23:29 GMT

#116

And I made a very strong read against him and another player in XIX, the reads being linked, and was promptly shot N1, after which, when I wasn't pushing at them, they ignored the attacks completely, pointed to WIFOM, and started trying to direct the town. Mislynch #2 ensued.

Hopeless's play is different enough from D1 there, where I won't be convinced he's town unless he flips, that I'm convinced he's town here.

In particular he doesn't seem scared of prolific posting in the early game.

And I prefer substantial pressure. If there's nothing to refute, there's no argument to give off an odor. And the odds of hitting a townie with random votes are way higher than the odds of hitting scum.

YourHarry

United States1152 Posts

July 04 2012 23:30 GMT

#117

I pressure by voting people.

JingleHell

United States11308 Posts

July 04 2012 23:35 GMT

#118

Well then, consider yourself under pressure, and unconvincing, since you just basically admitted to being disinterested in making substantial cases, and said

maybe I got the scum by chance

Funny, when it's 3/13... 23% chance. That's not good odds in my book. You sound scummy.

TMG26

Portugal2017 Posts

July 04 2012 23:38 GMT

#119

It's a 13 player game, and only 3 mobsters, so there is still a room for a litle mistake on day1

With a random vote on day 1 the probability of hitting scum is low, but missing wont be that dangerous, the question that i want to make is: With this low ratio of scum, does the nolynch becomes more or less viable?

I'm still a newbie in mafia games, thats one of the reasons of asking this questing

And sorry about my bad english, i'm not a native speaker

About what being happening here..
Lazer was not clear on what he said, Hopeless stated that, and yourHarry immidiatly voted Hopeless for that

So, in my opinion if we want to catch the scum we have to confront them, so i Hopeless did the right thing...But so did yourHarry, what i find funny was JingleHell jumping in to declare FoS on yourHarry

In my opinion Hopeless and yourHarry did almost same same thing

My main suspects right now fall to yourHarry and JingleHell, because your acusations seammed more like a counter acusation after a "scum teammate" being acused

But is all still too light, a lot of people still havent spoken

TMG26

Portugal2017 Posts

July 04 2012 23:39 GMT

#120

btw: guys i'm sorry to anounce but i will have an exam in 10 july, but i will my best to enough spend time here everyday, i wont need replacement i think