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United Kingdom36160 Posts
On November 15 2012 09:20 Hapahauli wrote:
@ BH
Why the hell do you still have your vote on me? It's shit and you know it.
Regarding Z-Boson
It's interesting, and I'm interested in hearing what Z-Bo has to say about it. That being said, I still find debears much more scummy.
1) Z-Boson is matching his Newbie XXV scum-meta. I'm reallllly hesitant about using meta from that long-ago. It was his first game, and he's changed as a player a lot since then. There is a resemblance, but nothing lynchable.
2) Z-Boson is not making enough "non-serious" remarks. Again, this isn't a deviation that I consider significant enough from his town meta to be lynchable.
3) Z-Boson is more decisive. This point I like quite a bit. However, I've had some conversations with Z-Bo after recent newbie game where he mentioned he wanted to make a stylistic change to his game. He talked to me a lot about wanting to post less and what not. I think it's consistent. I'll see if I can find the skype logs.
On August 26 2010 13:07 Ver wrote:
The strongest proof is actually in the summary: the abrupt change in demeanor (a great catch, changes in psychology aren't easy to spot but are really compelling) ]
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On November 15 2012 09:24 Hapahauli wrote:
Hell am I allowed to post skype convos?
Sure, I don't see why not.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
On November 15 2012 09:30 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 09:20 Hapahauli wrote:
@ BH
Why the hell do you still have your vote on me? It's shit and you know it.
Regarding Z-Boson
It's interesting, and I'm interested in hearing what Z-Bo has to say about it. That being said, I still find debears much more scummy.
1) Z-Boson is matching his Newbie XXV scum-meta. I'm reallllly hesitant about using meta from that long-ago. It was his first game, and he's changed as a player a lot since then. There is a resemblance, but nothing lynchable.
2) Z-Boson is not making enough "non-serious" remarks. Again, this isn't a deviation that I consider significant enough from his town meta to be lynchable.
3) Z-Boson is more decisive. This point I like quite a bit. However, I've had some conversations with Z-Bo after recent newbie game where he mentioned he wanted to make a stylistic change to his game. He talked to me a lot about wanting to post less and what not. I think it's consistent. I'll see if I can find the skype logs.
Show nested quote +On August 26 2010 13:07 Ver wrote:
The strongest proof is actually in the summary: the abrupt change in demeanor (a great catch, changes in psychology aren't easy to spot but are really compelling) ]
EBWOP: this was Ver commenting on Rastaban's case where rastaban said:
"As I went through his posts this game, they lacked a lot of his characteristic humor that he used last game. This seems like a minor thing, but they all point to a change in his playing method. Why, I believe it is because he is mafia this time around."
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
thrawn, stop fucking whining about why I don't want to lynch you, and do something useful for once.
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Ugh that's a good point. Debears is still really damn scummy though.
I'll have to think this one through a bit.
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Yea, so it's pretty much what I expected and actually said in my sniped post. Responses in red.
On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote:Z-BosonMetarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. (quote) Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495I was try-hard at the time, that was my first newbie game. That was a pretty tough way to play, so I abandoned it in favor of a more posty style (pretty much mimicking you).
Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions . All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote:
Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote:Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him  Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote:k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
Oh god.
Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
I think someone has some real issues.
Does liquid city have a psych ward? Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
Omfg austin really loves me.
I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more.
You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective.
Right now you just seem desperate.
I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
Austin, holy shit.
For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing.
/applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Except that that style of play is exactly why people threw shit at me all the time. Every single godamn game someone would take something I said, compare it with something else I've said that is inconsistent, and use it to justify me being scum. These light-hearted posts were the reason I spent more time defending myself than actually scumhuntingLook at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out  Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. It's a jest, as I'm usually correct about DP's alignment.Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why.
This won't do. It goes from the above, to: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. I've done this "Why not xxx" in an attempt to organize town and consolidate on a lynch (kind of the opposite of what you are doing). That kind of wording problem is what I have to pay more attention to. To be honest, I just wanted to say that DP is scummy, but I'm not gonna use my " DP scum-o-meter" yet, as I don't yet have a solid read on him (due to the low amount of posts he has). I didn't spend much time on him because I was more focused on Hopeless.Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote:Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that.Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". He defended himself using context, and I agreed with it, these two games are on extremely differnet circumstances. Hopeless then posted his reads which were pretty reasonable and I decided my meta case was not so strong.Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. I didn't choose yet to make an effort on him, because I didn't want to lynch him yet, because he has way too few posts for me to do that. I was gonna attempt to make a case on him right now, due to my change of heart on hopeless, and will do so if I see that I'll be all right (logic here is. If me town dies, then 100% town will come out losing. If me town lives, the % chance of town coming ou losing is the % chance I'm wrong)Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist". I find it important that you questioned my assessment on DP, and not debears, your top scum read. That led me to believe you agreed with my assessment on debears, and was going to be important for me to completely decided whether or not I would stick to my not wanting to lynch debears agenda. Dunno what you understood from that.
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson
So yea, basically it sums up to the change in my style I've talked about. You're gonna have to accept that the way I was playing before was a detriment to my gameplay, and made me frustrated, because too much of my time was wasted defending myself (which takes A LOT more time than scumhunting, for me). I tried doing that in GSL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602¤tpage=4#73
but failed miserably. What happened? Hapa picked up on some inconsistent stuff I said lightheartedly and BAM, huge clusterfuck of back-and-forths based on something that could easily have been avoided should I have been less posty.
Also, a bit of WIFOM. I remember my scum game, and I looked at the feedback from the obs qt. This part of my meta I'm completely aware of, so why would I not choose to replicate is as scum?
Basically, you are gonna have to decide whether: A) I, ask scum, didn't realize that me as townie posts a lot more and a lot more lightheartedly and posted in my natural scummy way here.
B) I, as town, actually did attempt execute the change of style I extensively talked to hapa about, in a way that makes sense (as you yourself have seen from my past town games), and in a way that's actually better, and more like it's said in XXX analysis (which I reread at times of frustration).
So, please analyze the actual content and the actual effort Im putting in this game (note my pushing of BH, it shows extensive signs of reading and carefulness in my wording and logic... such in a way that you agreed with it) instead of this "he's posting less!!!" argument.
Also, I have much less time to play now, exam weeks coming up ahead, and am trying to make the most of it.
Yep. Z-BosoN = townie.
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I wouldn't mind, hell no
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Votecount:
debears (3): Hapahauli, Hopeless1der, strongandbig
DarthPunk (2): thrawn2112, iamperfection
Hopeless1der (2): debears, Kickstart
Z-BosoN (2): marvellosity, Clarity_nl
Hapahauli (1): Blazinghand
Not voting (3): Crossfire99, DarthPunk, Z-BosoN
Currently, debears is set to be lynched! 1 hour 20 minutes remaining in day 1.
Please PM any of your resident votecount bitches (or mighty master Keir) if your vote is counted incorrectly.
Full version:
+ Show Spoiler +debears (3): Z-Boson, strongandbig, Hapahauli, Hopeless1nder, marvellosity, strongandbig
DarthPunk (2): Hapahauli Hapahauli, Clarity_nl, thrawn2112, Blazinghand, iamperfection
Hopeless1der (2): debears, marvellosity, marvellosity, Z-BosoN, Kickstart
Z-BosoN (2): Blazinghand, iamperfection, Blazinghand, marvellosity, Clarity_nl
Hapahauli (1): iamperfection, strongandbig. Kickstart, Blazinghand
Blazinghand (0): iamperfection, Z-BosoN, marvellosity, iamperfection, strongandbig
iamperfection (0): Hapahauli, Bloatinghand
thrawn2112 (0): Hapahauli
strongandbig (0): DarthPunk, Z-BosoN, Clarity_nl, Hapahauli, DarthPunk
Clarity_nl (0): DarthPunk
marvellosity (0): debears
Not voting (3): Crossfire99, DarthPunk, Z-BosoN
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Z-BosoN you addressed the meta stuff, but how do you feel about your play so far this game, and marv's analysis of it?
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Votes so spread out.....ugh this is not good.
Anyways marv
I'm not lynching zbo because he's making nig posts and he's decisive. Not happening. I want to lynch someone who isn't contributing at all. That person is hopeless
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
Z-Boson, how come you're so certain about things this game?
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Guys can consolidate plz?
Even if its on me
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
BlazingHand is simply absent with his vote on Hapa about an hour before lynch.
Crossfire never came back.
I dislike both these things immensely.
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OK. Just went over thrawns filter. HIs case on me has solid reasoning and meta analysis. He takes similar positions to me on both debears and BH.
I think thrawn is town. His filter in this game has more solid cases early than his town play in ACME. and I don't see first time scum thrawn being LESS productive.
Onwards.
I think Clarity is scum.
This vote of his onto the S&B wagon felt off.
On November 13 2012 10:16 Clarity_nl wrote:
Bandwagon time! Please answer why you claimed.
##Vote Strongandbig
When I questioned him on such a questionable vote (ironic isn't it) He says he has already explained his reasoning two post previously
On November 13 2012 10:10 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:07 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 10:02 strongandbig wrote:
also fuck you zboson i wanted to fakeclaim miller as vt since then people couldn't say "oh he's fakeclaiming miller must mean he's scum" when i fakeclaim miller as scum
but now if i did that people would be like "two millers what are the odds" and then probably lynch you so no good on that one ^^^^^^claim I missed that. strongandbig why did you claim VT, please explain your reasoning.
That is hardly a solid reason to vote for someone and when questioned I would expect him to further clarify as I did with both votes.
Ok now let's look at some weirdness With clarity. Clarity seems to hold strong convictions and States he will not be swayed until he achieves satisfaction.
On November 13 2012 16:52 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 16:48 Blazinghand wrote:
anyone not voting for their top scumread needs to vote for their top scumread instead Right now, he's it. Maybe he's a bit too obvious and maybe the fact that no one has defended him, even a little bit, makes it less likely, but he's still it. Just because I said my vote pressures him, does not mean that is solely what my vote it for. It's staying there until he explains himself clearly, luckily we have plenty of time.
S&B does not explain any further. Blazinghand puts pressure on those who still have votes on S&B and then we get this
On November 13 2012 17:25 Clarity_nl wrote:I understand your reasoning much better now, thanks. As for his meta, it seems he doesn't play like he's been playing this game as either alignment. Here's his Town play. ##unvote
So he unvotes someone who was his top scum read, whom he was not going to unvote unless S&B explained himself. And then after some pressure from BH he unvotes sheeping BH's reasoning.
On to his case on me
On November 14 2012 05:00 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 04:17 Clarity_nl wrote:
Darthpunk... maybe. Best I've got, working on a case right now but not liking how it's turning out. Yeah.... making a case on Darth isn't working, which I think in itself says a lot.
I am surprised more of you didn;t go WTF when you read this I think only HAPA did. But this demonstrates a scum mindset.
With me. I start many cases feel that they aren't working and move on maybe saving some things for later.
The way he express how he went about his case on me Is how scum feel when making cases. It doesn;t really work but you push through and try to find things that stick.
To me this is a quite revealing mindset possessed by clarity.
On November 13 2012 16:52 Clarity_nl wrote:If you guys somehow haven't noticed. Take a look at Darth's filter. It's basically a bunch of one-liners, jokes, the occasional null read on others. It doesn't actually help town. The only things that stand out in his filter are him voting for SnB with the comment "so retarded" (which apparantly is a null tell, judging by his previous games, he throws the word around a lot) After I jump on the SnB wagon, he votes for me without explaining. Later on he quotes his own post of him voting for me and explains why, after I explain my reasoning he quickly unvotes me and hops back on SnB.
So his read on me is that I haven't been pro town and made some questionable votes with little reasoning. The problem is so did he and he refused to give further reasoning on his votes which I did do both prompted and unprompted and which he knew of when he made this case.
I am not accusing him of being scum for doing similar things as me. I am asccusing him because he finds the things we both did scummy which does not seem to be a cohesive mindset.
On November 13 2012 15:56 DarthPunk wrote:
I am just throwing my vote around trying to see what's up. I think I explained both my votes on him adequately maybe you disagree with the reasons and that is fine.
The reason I unvoted S&B the first time was that I voted for Clarity for what I perceived to be an easy jump onto an easy wagon. He gave his explanation, I unvoted and then I re-voted S&B.
I cannot find the townie reasoning behind several things S&B has posted thus far. I cannot reconcile using WIFOM about his scum game as townie behaviour and I do not buy the too scummy to be scum shit.
I am far from certain about him. But if he is town I want him to shape up. I don;t like using FoS's anymore so a vote it is.
@blazinghand. Guess I am bad.
He then claims he's just "throwing his vote around", but he doesn't ask questions or make comments about me or SnB.
On November 13 2012 16:50 DarthPunk wrote:
Eh. I wouldn;t say I had a particularly strong read on S&B.
##Unvote
Then why vote for him? Because if it was to pressure, why wouldn't he actually explain why he's voted this way or ask questions?
You either vote to lynch or you vote to pressure. But Darth's vote was.... neither?
##Vote DarthPunk[/QUOTE]
I find his interpretations of my filter to be manipulative. My votes were obviously to pressure I explained as much. He even quotes my reasoning and then comes out with a conclusion to make his case that 'wasn't working'
I do not see any solid reason to then do what clarity did in follow up which was to push and tunnel me hard based on ACTIVITY which was barely mentioned at all originally.
This feels like the kind of case that is FORCED and made for the sake of making a case. Something that I refused to do because I want to get shit right. I don;t think clarity cares about being right. I think clarity would have forced a case on me regardless of what was found in my filter.
And THAT ladies and gents is freaking scummy.
after this case his contributions are fluff and one liners that he apparently hates.
he cruises along contributing NOTHING unless prompted by a direct question or pushing his case on me. Generally with a one liner containing no information.
He tunnels me for the rest of the cycle once again having his 'convictions' that are dropped to sheep marvs case. Without any real contributions from me in the thread without explaining why I am no longer being voted
On November 15 2012 09:09 Clarity_nl wrote:
I feel I am at a disadvantage, not having a natural meta awareness about most people in this thread. I do try to read people's older games after I am done reading through their filter, but I just read their filter, which means their posts lose context.. somewhat.
That said, marv's case makes a lot of sense.
I mean, he used the word propensity, how can I resist.
##Unvote
##Vote Z-BosoN
Also look at this post and note how he hints at his newbieness in the opening paragraph which is irrelevant to his Un-vote on me or his vote on ZB.
Clarity is scum kids.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
well, we're definitely not lynching Clarity today.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Man this wagon setup is a travesty 3 not voting and nobody with more than 3 votes. 9 out of 10 times with wagons like this town loses. Let's all put our votes on scum instead of having so many candidates.
The two players who have made the most sense this game are Clarity and Marv (all issues I have with him aside). I don't like Hapa not attacking me-- this is rather un-hapa like. That said, I see nobody wants to lynch him, and the two guys I like best are voting for another guy I like.
Between Hopeless, DP, and debears, DP is the most likely to flip scum. debears is at least in the thread and Hopeless is just being hopeless. I shouldn't have unvoted DP.
##unvote
##vote DP
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On November 15 2012 09:46 DarthPunk wrote:
Clarity is scum kids.
##Vote Darthpunk RIGHT IN THE FACE.
You literally can't believe that.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Guys, DP just claimed scum. Get of your crap wagons and let's get rid of him, now.
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@clarity
On November 15 2012 09:42 Clarity_nl wrote:
Z-BosoN you addressed the meta stuff, but how do you feel about your play so far this game, and marv's analysis of it?
His analysis on my meta is pretty straightforward, and true, but he's wrong on that count for my reasons above.
On the DP/hopeless afair, well... not proud of it, but I'd say that's a fairly small part of his case once you take away the meta. I'll try to reassess my read on DP in a sec, and try before deadline.
@marv
On November 15 2012 09:44 marvellosity wrote:
Z-Boson, how come you're so certain about things this game?
Because of Liquid City. I had the right reads, but no one gave a shit because I felt the way I was wording made me feel too insecure and not taken seriously. So right now I'm avoiding words like "I think, it might, probably...". Still saying them sometimes, but avoiding them.
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EPT
