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On September 21 2012 04:57 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 04:53 Hapahauli wrote:On September 21 2012 04:51 Mementoss wrote:On September 21 2012 04:49 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh and since night deadline is in a couple of hours and I have a commute subject to traffic:
Town:
Marv (for reasons previously posted)
BlazingHand (duh)
Zeph (mega confirmation bais vs. me)
prplzh (owait.)
Null-ish:
Ange (:effort: making me lean town on her)
mkfuba (leaning town for reasons posted in thread - too open with thought process)
Mementoss (null)
Hiro (nullz)
austinmcc (nullzzzzz)
scum:
Bluelightz
Palmar
I'll try to work out some of those null reads before the deadline. Should have a half an hour or so before the deadline to work on things. Could you elaborate more why you think MKfuba is town? I think the fear he has with posting openly has clearly painted him scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=37#736 Before he made that post on austin though he made a much weaker one, his filter generally gives me a feel of him being scared to post then deciding to post later. The post on me was a different way of wording what other people have already said. Hard to tell though.
Oh haha, it's funny cause I looked at his post on you again, and he actually answered the wrong question from marv. Marv asked him for his read on austinmcc, and he provided a read on you.
No idea what it means, but worth noting. I'll have to do some more thinking on mkfuba.
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On September 21 2012 04:56 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 04:50 Mementoss wrote:On September 21 2012 04:31 austinmcc wrote:On September 21 2012 04:21 Mementoss wrote:On September 21 2012 01:50 Hapahauli wrote:Yeah, like I"m comparing his mentality here to his mentality in some of his other town games. His Normal Mini III play should speak for itself (townie reads on everrrryone), but take one of his posts in GSL Mini for example: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925¤tpage=15#295He doesn't really tunnel 1 scumread. Gives a townie, null, and slightly scummy read all in one post. There are several posts like that throughout his filter - he rarely takes a hardline "tunnel-y" opinion on someone in that game. Or his first post in GSL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925¤tpage=7#128He establishes Risen as town when the whole town wants to lynch him.
The most recent scumgame I found in his filter was Normal Mini II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349058&user=235418He does play a fairly different meta than this game (few very long posts, etc), but I think he's displaying a similar mentality. He's very critical of people's play in his scumgame (as he was with prplzh). He's much more sure of his reads, similar to this game. This could be a trip down meta-confirmationbais lane and I'll have to look more into it, but the mentality IMO is striking. I'd be interested to hear other's thoughts. I would disagree he seemed very unsure of his read on me in the early game this game. When Bluelightz posted his case on you, posed a question, then unvoted later, did you feel like he was consistent in his behavior? Entirely independent of your alignment, how did you read Bluelightz vote/unvote? It seemed legit to me, I think he wrote his case came back and realized it was pretty wrong/bad. Then my responses cleared up any doubts he had. Okay. Any posts you can link to back those thoughts up? Specifically the him realizing it was wrong/bad and what responses cleared things up. Trying to see that interaction from all angles, although he doesn't seem to <3 responding to things.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=11#203
then there is more if you read through to the next page
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Ok actually this post by mkfuba is really freggin weird.
On September 20 2012 03:56 mkfuba07 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 02:58 marvellosity wrote:On September 20 2012 02:56 mkfuba07 wrote:
EBWOP: "He mentions them elsewhere, but doesn't explain them until after he's posted the list." I feel like at that point it's not even a summary, it's just a list of people who don't have to worry about being pressured by prplhz.
Sorry for posting so much right now. I believe I have class during the deadline, and while I will have access to a computer for the later half of it, I can't guarantee that I'll have time to keep posting then. As your vote is currently on austinmcc, care to comment on his case and what you make of his recent activity? Absolutely! I think the most convincing thing about it is the overall feeling that MMToss isn't really pressuring his scumreads. He hasn't said much about prplhz since the vote until his post about marv and I being suspicious together. I actually forgot that he even had his vote on him. Austinmcc didn't feel particularly pressured. And despite feeling like MMToss should be voting for me instead of prplhz based on his posting so far, I don't feel particularly pressured by him. He seems to be kind of passively throwing around suspicion, but keeping his vote firmly set on prplhz without any force behind it. I'm not sure if this is necessarily scummy (I know, wishy-washy), but I don't feel like it's consistent with MMToss's town play (the limited amount that I have experienced). Gotta switch classrooms... I'll take another look at austin's recent posts and comment when I'm settled in the other room. Sorry about that :<
Marv asked him for his read on austinmcc.
"Absolutely!"
"MMtoss is playing strange..."
"I'll look at austin later"
Wat?
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Unless my supervisor drops by, I'm going to dedicate most of this last hour to this game. Things I know I want to look at:- marv and palmar
- ange777. I replaced in for her in a newbie game where she felt like a very solid player, as far as I know she played well in other games? Feel like her pushing prplhz so hard, especially towards the last bit of D1, should have generated enough posts that I can get a solid read off her
- Zephirdd - I know he was active early, then it felt like he slipped away for a long time, only to come back and demand votes. Need to double-check that was what happened and get a stronger read on him
Is there anything that anyone wants me to address specifically? I know I'm null to a lot of people, or still scummy.
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On September 21 2012 05:03 Hapahauli wrote:Ok actually this post by mkfuba is really freggin weird. Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 03:56 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 20 2012 02:58 marvellosity wrote:On September 20 2012 02:56 mkfuba07 wrote:
EBWOP: "He mentions them elsewhere, but doesn't explain them until after he's posted the list." I feel like at that point it's not even a summary, it's just a list of people who don't have to worry about being pressured by prplhz.
Sorry for posting so much right now. I believe I have class during the deadline, and while I will have access to a computer for the later half of it, I can't guarantee that I'll have time to keep posting then. As your vote is currently on austinmcc, care to comment on his case and what you make of his recent activity? Absolutely! I think the most convincing thing about it is the overall feeling that MMToss isn't really pressuring his scumreads. He hasn't said much about prplhz since the vote until his post about marv and I being suspicious together. I actually forgot that he even had his vote on him. Austinmcc didn't feel particularly pressured. And despite feeling like MMToss should be voting for me instead of prplhz based on his posting so far, I don't feel particularly pressured by him. He seems to be kind of passively throwing around suspicion, but keeping his vote firmly set on prplhz without any force behind it. I'm not sure if this is necessarily scummy (I know, wishy-washy), but I don't feel like it's consistent with MMToss's town play (the limited amount that I have experienced). Gotta switch classrooms... I'll take another look at austin's recent posts and comment when I'm settled in the other room. Sorry about that :< Marv asked him for his read on austinmcc. "Absolutely!" "MMtoss is playing strange..." "I'll look at austin later" Wat?
Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, see yesterday's discussion. Yes, that's a weird post. My initial gut reaction was that it was a screwup between the two for some posts they'd planned out in QT. I think that's being overly paranoid, but it IS quite the weird response to that question.
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On September 21 2012 05:03 Hapahauli wrote:Ok actually this post by mkfuba is really freggin weird. Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 03:56 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 20 2012 02:58 marvellosity wrote:On September 20 2012 02:56 mkfuba07 wrote:
EBWOP: "He mentions them elsewhere, but doesn't explain them until after he's posted the list." I feel like at that point it's not even a summary, it's just a list of people who don't have to worry about being pressured by prplhz.
Sorry for posting so much right now. I believe I have class during the deadline, and while I will have access to a computer for the later half of it, I can't guarantee that I'll have time to keep posting then. As your vote is currently on austinmcc, care to comment on his case and what you make of his recent activity? Absolutely! I think the most convincing thing about it is the overall feeling that MMToss isn't really pressuring his scumreads. He hasn't said much about prplhz since the vote until his post about marv and I being suspicious together. I actually forgot that he even had his vote on him. Austinmcc didn't feel particularly pressured. And despite feeling like MMToss should be voting for me instead of prplhz based on his posting so far, I don't feel particularly pressured by him. He seems to be kind of passively throwing around suspicion, but keeping his vote firmly set on prplhz without any force behind it. I'm not sure if this is necessarily scummy (I know, wishy-washy), but I don't feel like it's consistent with MMToss's town play (the limited amount that I have experienced). Gotta switch classrooms... I'll take another look at austin's recent posts and comment when I'm settled in the other room. Sorry about that :< Marv asked him for his read on austinmcc. "Absolutely!" "MMtoss is playing strange..." "I'll look at austin later" Wat?
Yes, I specifically pointed this out as why I'd gotten a scumread on mkfuba (as had one or two others). Pay attention, dear.
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Yeah see I wasn't around too much late yesterday =(
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On September 21 2012 04:20 Mementoss wrote:
Zephridd had a bad case on Hapa who we now know is confirmed town. But having a bad case or being wrong isn't alignment indicative either. The fact that he mis-intrepreted him however, can be seen as scummy. But Hapa mis-intrepreted me twice, and we know he is town now so I guess it can happen if your town or scum. Look at the way zeph jumps onto prplhz , there is not really a solid reason and it feels kinda awkward.
Ever since my hapa case I've agreed with BH's case on prplhz; I also state multiple reasons against prplhz on my big post when re-reading pages 3-10. I also admitted multiple times that my hapa case was bad and the exact point where I realized it wasn't a good case.
now on another page,
On September 21 2012 02:29 Palmar wrote:
Mementoss is almost certainly town. If I do end up dead tonight you really, really need to take a critical look at the fact that prplhz and I agreed on reads. It's really fucking frustrating that you paint someone scum, then town proceeds to ignore you once you get shot.
Always look at everything said by the people night killed by mafia. Do so critically, but usually there is a reason the people who died, die.
I think marv needs to die tomorrow. If we have a vigilante, the safest targets are HiroPro and perhaps mkfuba07. Generally it's easier to shoot lurkers as they won't be missed. Hapahauli is confirmed town with no action so he should absolutely be protected tonight. However it's probably better that we assume there is a chance BlazingHand and I get protected because that might deter scum from shooting us.
it's very unfortunate prplhz messed up the claim but once he did it I suppose there wasn't anything to do but lynch him. We could've ended up with 2 confirmed townies. I was pretty sure they were both town, especially hapa, but really prplhz too.
The reason I didn't want to switch to austinmcc is that two of my strongest scumreads were already voting for him as I pointed out. Now there's obviously the chance that austin is an SK and I was just being a stubborn asshole, but with hiro and marv both trying to kill him, I saw very little reason to think he might flip scum.
mementoss's interactions with blazinghand during the first moments of the game seem very straightforward and matter of fact. there is no sense of panic as he breaks down the points Blazinhand raised against him. The main reason I think he's town are the two big posts he came up with after I posted the case on marv. In both of them he's genuinely looking at the situation as it is, instead of as he wants it to be.
His addition of mkfuba07 into the mix and the connections between marv and mkfuba is a very valuable addition to the thread, something I would not expect anyone that's scum to pick up on. It proves he's reading the thread with a lot of attention.
Regarding my own meta, marv is using it in the wrong way, obviously. The problem is marv seems to have a lot of time to post, so read everything said and done for it's content, not for who is yelling the loudest.
Ugh, this post. This. Post.
Always look at everything said by the people night killed by mafia. Do so critically, but usually there is a reason the people who died, die.
This is the biggest WIFOM bomb possible. Now scum kills player X who thinks Y is scum, and he uses that for a reason to push player Y. That's fucking bullshit.
I think marv needs to die tomorrow. If we have a vigilante, the safest targets are HiroPro and perhaps mkfuba07.
The fuck? "hey I think this guy is scum, but shoot these other guys" that's retarded. If there is a vigi, he shoots who he thinks to be scum. Palmar, you are NOT the kind of guy to take easy shots. thefuck.
However it's probably better that we assume there is a chance BlazingHand and I get protected because that might deter scum from shooting us.
It's probably better "we" assume? We, the town, don't have to assume anything. Protections and shots are stuff for Jailkeepers and Scum. The WIFOM is a problem for scum, not town. If hapa dies, we either assume the JK jailed BH(which would be confirmed by him claiming rb) or that he was double-stacked or no JK exists(confirmed by no rb claim). What in the fuck should we assume here and why do we have to assume it here? Ugh I hope this isn't another case of confirmation bias.
The reason I didn't want to switch to austinmcc is that two of my strongest scumreads were already voting for him as I pointed out. Now there's obviously the chance that austin is an SK and I was just being a stubborn asshole, but with hiro and marv both trying to kill him, I saw very little reason to think he might flip scum.
If you thought austin was scum, why would his play be similar to one of a SK? As far as I know, SK's play just like any town would day 1. Were you trying to be consistent to your (bullshit) list you threw early? Maybe you tried too hard on that? Or maybe you knew austin would flip town and people would attack you for it, based on that list?
Regarding my own meta, marv is using it in the wrong way, obviously. The problem is marv seems to have a lot of time to post, so read everything said and done for it's content, not for who is yelling the loudest.
The whole content of your filter comes from your defense of Mementoss up there. marv actually cared enough to look at your meta, but you didn't care enough to show why it was wrong.
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Jeesh, I've almost left it too late - I really want to hear from BlazingHand on what he thinkks about Bluelightz, as I got teh impression from the discussions in GSL Open that he had, a pretty good grasp on Bluelightz's meta. I especially want to hear his opinion on whether he thinks Bluelightz' case on Prplhz felt 'forced', and the lack of town/null reads given to the thread.
The point with fubaa is that he was weak giving his reasoning on austin, which took fucking forever anyway, and then when pressed to comment on austin then commented on Mementoss instead. He managed to create a situation where he doesn't have to be held accountable for any of his reads because we don't even know what they are properly..
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On September 21 2012 05:09 Hapahauli wrote:
Yeah see I wasn't around too much late yesterday =(
order of things to do: read things and THEN comment, rather than comment and find out it's been said 
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On September 21 2012 05:16 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 05:09 Hapahauli wrote:
Yeah see I wasn't around too much late yesterday =( order of things to do: read things and THEN comment, rather than comment and find out it's been said
Blah blah blah yeah yeah yeah...
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it may lead you away from situations where you're calling fuba town and wondering why I'm calling scum, and only several pages later do you come across the reason I was calling him scum 
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Anywho, off to the train station.
Updated list:
Town:
Marv (for reasons previously posted)
BlazingHand (duh)
Zeph (mega confirmation bais vs. me)
prplzh (owait.)
Null-ish:
Ange (:effort: making me lean town on her)
Mementoss (leaning town for reasons posted in thread)
austinmcc (slightly townie - effortz, townie response to case against him early)
Hiro (nullz)
iamperfection (sorta scummy, mostly his vote here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=27#526 - not sure if he's scumhunting or not)
mkfuba (leaning scum)
scum:
Bluelightz
Palmar
Peace out folks
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marv, thoughts on Hiro and Bluelightz? You had hiro scummy for a bit, agreed with a lot of what he was posting, and generally had a lot of ... I dunno, distant interaction? with him. Agreeing with his points, directing others to look at his posts for your thoughts. Where does your read on him stand atm?
Also, can you give any sort of read on ange?
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EBWOP: Scratch Bluelightz from that question. I dunno how that got in there. Just wondering about hiro/ange
On September 21 2012 05:20 austinmcc wrote:
marv, thoughts on Hiro and Bluelightz? You had hiro scummy for a bit, agreed with a lot of what he was posting, and generally had a lot of ... I dunno, distant interaction? with him. Agreeing with his points, directing others to look at his posts for your thoughts. Where does your read on him stand atm?
Also, can you give any sort of read on ange?
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On September 21 2012 05:20 austinmcc wrote:
marv, thoughts on Hiro and Bluelightz? You had hiro scummy for a bit, agreed with a lot of what he was posting, and generally had a lot of ... I dunno, distant interaction? with him. Agreeing with his points, directing others to look at his posts for your thoughts. Where does your read on him stand atm?
Also, can you give any sort of read on ange?
I agree with Hapa's assessment of Ange. Leaning town because of effort. I can't find any particular malicious intent or direction in her posting.
I've given what thoughts I have on BL, waiting to hear more from people like BH before trying to firm up further on him either way.
Hiro I'm leaning town on now. In his massive post whenever it was he brought up a load of well thought out points, including analysis and quotes from other games, such as prplhz sheeping Palmar, and my tendency to believe the scummy things I do point towards me being town. I also liked his assessment on how you were appearing apologetic. Basically I'm leaning town on him because many of his thoughts have been unique this game and I like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time. The thing that stops me giving a firm read of town is that he's still more... detached from the thread than he might be.
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nobody cared about my palmar post
mesad TT
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On September 21 2012 05:33 Zephirdd wrote:
nobody cared about my palmar post
mesad TT
maybe im biased since it was defending me but I think you were too critical on many factors, Marv was harping him all game about not explaining things and I think he explained himself pretty good there.
Also about the dead people it's true that people should pay more attention to them, but not completely rely on it.
I guess is what I'm saying is I don't agree with almost any of your post lol.
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On September 21 2012 05:33 Zephirdd wrote:
nobody cared about my palmar post
mesad TT
hey babe, it was good!
I thought similar things, but held my thoughts on it because it presumed I'd damned Palmar in my mind already (getting there xD). One of my thoughts when reading that post was "wifom bombs" you just set it out more neatly and fully. I remember at some point Palmar saying that playing scum is about misleading and sowing as much confusion into town as possible before he dies, as he would inevitably die, and that post matches that.
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On September 21 2012 05:37 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 05:33 Zephirdd wrote:
nobody cared about my palmar post
mesad TT maybe im biased since it was defending me but I think you were too critical on many factors, Marv was harping him all game about not explaining things and I think he explained himself pretty good there. Also about the dead people it's true that people should pay more attention to them, but not completely rely on it. I guess is what I'm saying is I don't agree with almost any of your post lol.
he explained jack shit.
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EPT
