iGrok's Good Clean Old-fashioned Mafia - Page 42

On June 17 2012 09:50 gonzaw wrote:
Right, so we don't lynch obvious scum Palmar to lynch him tomorrow right?

Anything can happen by that time, Palmar can come up with a case against someone, then cause more shitstorm, have people doubt their reads on him, and he may even survive.
If we all agree to lynch him today I don't see why we shouldn't.

Yes, if tonight SK shoots a townie (I don't see this happening either, but lets assume it will happen), we can argue tomorrow about who is scum, prp or BB or someone else.
That's what's supposed to happen, we lynch one scum and then argue about who the other one is, but if the SK doesn't shoot tonight (most likely), then we could still lynch prplhz if we think he's either SK or scum.

If prplhz is scum, the real SK won't shoot a townie tonight because he knows that if he does, we'll most likely avoid lynching prplhz tomorrow, while if he doesn't, we'd most likely do, so he'd not shoot a townie tonight, let us lynch prplhz, and then try to win solo.

You are making too many assumptions, you just assume the SK will shoot a townie tonight if we lynch Palmar no matter what and be successful..
Like where the fuck does that come from? The SK could even shoot the other scum if he feels like it and try to survive 2 lynches, he could just not shoot, or he could try to shoot a townie but shoot the same one as scum or scum can shoot him or not shoot at all.

You say your plan is better because "We lynch Palmar today"->"SK and mafia will shoot different townies, so we'll have a hard time trying to lynch the remaining scum":

1. That isn't as bad as you make it seem, we have 1 scum down and are still in LYLO where we need to lynch the 2nd scum, and the SK doesn't have another bullet to use.
   
   
2. Do you know what sucks as well? prplhz flipping town, or prplhz flipping SK and debating all D4 on whether Palmar is scum or perhaps Rad/Grey/etc and Palmar may survive another lynch.

You still haven't answered me the question about prplhz's behaviour.

On June 17 2012 11:59 BrownBear wrote:
Alright, I'm back.

My resoning behind the Palmar lynch is basically what gonzaw and others have posted. He's not playing the way he normally does when he's town, but he was definitely trying to act like he was Day 1. He's switched his opinion on everyone all the time, without ever providing reasons, and hasn't been called on it until now. He's basically skated, and I don't really understand why we didn't call him on it sooner.

He's definitely my target for today, unless something crazy happens, so I'm gonna look forward. One thing I was considering was the possibility of SK choosing to shoot tonight (and I think someone else mentioned that possibility). Given that the game is winding down, I thought it might be a possibility we'll have to account for. In the end though, I really think SK will not shoot tonight, because it's in his interest to shoot at the last possible moment (preferably when it will end the game). If we mislynch and Palmar is town, then SK will be forced to shoot red to keep the game alive (I think) but given the unlikelihood of that possibility, we're going to have SK KP to worry about.

So I think we lynch Palmar today, then worry about who's SK starting today and tomorrow. My "group of scum" would be:

Palmar
Radfield
prphlz
Wiggles

Palmar, case is proven. The other three I'm much less sure about. I'm certain the SK is one of them, though. All 3 have been trying very hard to play pro-town, but little things about their play have just thrown me off and made me question them.

On June 17 2012 11:59 BrownBear wrote:
Alright, I'm back.

My resoning behind the Palmar lynch is basically what gonzaw and others have posted. He's not playing the way he normally does when he's town, but he was definitely trying to act like he was Day 1. He's switched his opinion on everyone all the time, without ever providing reasons, and hasn't been called on it until now. He's basically skated, and I don't really understand why we didn't call him on it sooner.

He's definitely my target for today, unless something crazy happens, so I'm gonna look forward. One thing I was considering was the possibility of SK choosing to shoot tonight (and I think someone else mentioned that possibility). Given that the game is winding down, I thought it might be a possibility we'll have to account for. In the end though, I really think SK will not shoot tonight, because it's in his interest to shoot at the last possible moment (preferably when it will end the game). If we mislynch and Palmar is town, then SK will be forced to shoot red to keep the game alive (I think) but given the unlikelihood of that possibility, we're going to have SK KP to worry about.

So I think we lynch Palmar today, then worry about who's SK starting today and tomorrow. My "group of scum" would be:

Palmar
Radfield
prphlz
Wiggles

Palmar, case is proven. The other three I'm much less sure about. I'm certain the SK is one of them, though. All 3 have been trying very hard to play pro-town, but little things about their play have just thrown me off and made me question them.

On June 17 2012 18:25 gonzaw wrote:
lol yo who lycnch=?

like who you want to lncH?c ro sorry VV BB?



lol why did you call yourslef scvum?

lolololo

lol wait you are BB i though you we Rad hahaha

hey BBw what od you thino of think of me thinking you are scm ..
..

sum


scum wot

with Palmar? huh?

LIke, I've read both filters of you and you botsem to planmned abuss

ou


you both seemed to plan a buse
you bot hseemed to plan a bus.
yea hthat's tight, it seems your "outbusrts" against pPLamarar was abus, because it was very werid I though yoiu were town becaues you backed off Palmar, but if palamr is scum that's not a town tell, because of the above

what do you hintthink about it?

BrownBear:
Hmm, his behaviour seems townie...but there's something about his interactions with Palmar that seem off.
First of all, voting Palmar for the RNG deal is just stupid, and if he was scum he'd know it'd be stupid and wouldn't convince anybody
to vote for Palmar.
Second, he goes against Palmar pretty heavily...but doesn't actually call him scum. He just calls him a "cancer to town", votes him
and just argues and argues and says "we need to cut it or ignore it", never says he wants to lynch him because he thinks Palmar is
scum or anything.
Even so, his 1st vote on him was a "preliminary vote", again, there was no strong accusation or anything.
That seems fishy.
He does seem VERY upset against Palmar...but to be honest I can't see BB being actually frustrated like that regarding Palmar's
play. Like, if he had been arguing for 10 pages with Palmar, with Palmar ignoring him or something, then yes I'd think it was
justified; but like, he votes Palmar for disrupting town and the RNG bit, and IMMEDIATELY gets frustrated and annoyed by him, for
instance these posts:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558&currentpage=18#359
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558&currentpage=18#360

Like, getting so worked up because Palmar called him "useless" seems weird to me.

He keeps saying that he's "annoyed right now"...hmm.

In N1, he immediately starts to think Palmar is "just BM-style town - annoying, misleading, and should be ignored."
So...he starts to think Palmar is town now...when he spent 100% of his effort on D1 trying to get Palmar lynched for that specific
behaviour he mentioned.

Like I said, I guess he "could" have acted like this as town, realize his mistake and then ignore Palmar. It's also possible it's a
planned bus to increase BB's credibility. I'll try to find out and see how BB responds to my vote on Palmar. I guess he is willing
to bus him though, so I'll have to be careful with what he does.

Of course, I already have a "case" made against him...so I don't need to point those things out again

He's wishy washy about Radfield, casting doubt on him as soon as N1. He finds him suspicious but says he doesn't want to "tunnel" so
he'll look around some more.

He then goes against Palmar for voting me, asks him if he has a case. I think he ignores that later and doesn't follow up on it
He changes his vote on Hesmyrr and doesn't even consider voting Palmar for instance. Yesh this seems fishy

Not only that, he took Palmar's joke "seriously" and as a reason to go against Palmar as well....but still doesn't vote Palmar and
never mentions him again later at all. The fact he took his "joke" seriously is weird as well (although chaoser and Grey thought
I was being legit with my "joke vote" on VE >_> )

He's been absent throughout all N2, avoiding any discussion whatsoever, even though he was active on N1 and D2.

To be honest, his behaviour from N1 and D2 hasn't been as good as I thought, he does seem "nice" and all with some smileys and stuff,
but he just wagons on the Hesmyrr vote (for not that GREAT of reasons), and somehow manages to completely ignore Palmar yet still
go against him.

If Palmar flips scum then I'd find this VERY fishy, enough to warrant a lynch on him. However, if Palmar flips town....for one we lost,
but at least BB is town as well.
The more I read their interactions the more suspicious I get.

BB also seems to ignore Palmar accusing BB of being scum...but never doing anything about it. Every time Palmar accuses BB, he just
throws a hissy fit against Palmar...and then goes on with his usual business. He never mentions why Palmar would cast suspicion on
him without any reason and not pushing it, etc.

Palmar:
Interaction with BB:
His first interaction with BB is mentioning there isn't a case on him and calling him "fucking useless", just like he called Ace.
When BB calls him out, he seems to act casually regarding it, however later he says he thinks BB is scum (in one of those
one-liners of his). His response here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558&currentpage=18#349
That doesn't seem the tone of someone that thinks the guy he's responding to is mafia. However he then says he'd like to
lynch BB...but says he prefers a MZ lynch (and lo and behold his vote stays on MZ).
He later says that he'd be willing to make a BB lynch happen...but doesn't do anything. VE said he'd like that as well, but he
just ignores it and later says he thinks Hes is town...nothing else, until the day ends and MZ is lynched.
That kind of interaction is fishy as fuck, because it's Palmar appearing to push a lynch on someone but not actually taking the
effort to do it, which is classic scum bus.
In this post he mentions BB as his "greatest scumread" (implicitly):
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558&currentpage=24#467
But...? He does nothing about it. If he was town he'd push that read...if he was scum and BB town he'd push that read even more
(like he did with MZ). However in D2 he NEVER AT ALL pushes the BB lynch...only "votes" him as a joke.

More proof:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558&currentpage=27#535

He basically tells BB he's scum...and again does nothing to push that lynch. He still has his retarded vote on me.

Then however, he just blatantly says that now he thinks BB is town for reconsidering his reads and because "historically scum
oppose RL" or some shit.
Like, it seems convenient that now both of them "reconciliated" and think each other is town...after both were going full against
each other without actually doing it.

Hmm, he seems to "know" Ace, VE and Hes are town, or subtly imply it.
His read on BB later is this:
"I don't think BB is scum anymore, mostly by virtue of almost everyone else looking worse than him."
That's wishy-washy as hell, and very fishy as well.

Palmar doesn't care about anything, not even on D1. He FoSes MZ but never even mentions him again or cares about the discussions about
him. He FoSes BB but doesn't care about pushing him or anything. He just goes around throwing useless one-liners and stuff.
On D2 his behaviour is a joke. He only appears to:
-Say he thinks I'm scum
-Talk about Radfield
-Say he now thinks BB is town

He doesn't care about the Hes lynch or case, he doesn't even care about pushing me, he doesn't even care about Radfield either since
he changes his stance on him based on Rad thinking VE was scum and nothing else, just disregards everything he said about Radfield
before.
He's acting like in Liar Game where after D1 he just disappears and shows up just to post and blend in.

On June 12 2012 05:40 BrownBear wrote:









What part of this did you not understand?

Also, you can argue I've been less active and less helpful than others in the game, but there are ways to say it without using the words "pretty fucking useless". That's just needless flaming, hurts my feelings, and is unwelcome.

On June 18 2012 00:57 BrownBear wrote:
I think Greymist is town because I haven't really been able to read through his filter, and don't have much of a read on him. I will do that.

Also gonzaw, don't try to play when you're drunk. Bad things happen. I'll wait for you to come back when sober and clarify what you meant by all of that.