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No one except for mafia can claim to know anyones alignment for certain. My main concern is electing a mayor who will lynch someone I think is scum and who is a present enough player that they will be fairly easy to read. I am less interested in going through a prospective mayors filter and determining his alignment than I am in pressuring him to lynch the person I most think is scum.
Only scum can vote for a mayor with full confidence that they are town. The mayor getting mafia isn't a major problem, they won't have bodyguards and are still liable to be acted on at night. The mayoral election being used to derail the Day 1 discussion into something other than who is scum and needs to die is a major problem because this trend will definitely continue. It's all that simple to me. To be honest, I've seen enough plans go bad that I almost tune out the instant I realize that somebody is trying to implement something, especially on Day 1.
The optimal play is whatever ends up with a scum being lynched at the end of the day. There is nothing that can possibly be more optimal than that unless it means even more scum die. I would rather have a scum mayor who gave into pressure and bussed a teammate (knowing he will likely slip up and get pressured later) than a town mayor who lynches some random lurker or an RNG or something dumb like that. To be honest, I don't care about a damn thing other than the result of the lynch. Everything else is noise.
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On February 26 2013 13:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 13:19 randombum wrote:On February 26 2013 12:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 26 2013 12:35 randombum wrote:On February 26 2013 12:30 The Macho Man wrote:On February 26 2013 12:29 randombum wrote:
Well obviously lynching scum is good. But the idea is we can use it to gain a lot of information that simply elected a town mayor who is likely to die does not. why are we trying to get information instead of lynching scum? Why are you treating gathering information and lynching scum as mutually exclusive. This plan involves lynching the scum target and putting another in the spotlight. I could get it if you said something like "this plan would never work because...." or something like that, but to simply dismiss it because gathering information is bad? no one cares about or likes your plan so tell us who we should lynch or who you think the mayor should be. if you want to have a scum mayor, that's essentially the same question right? Honestly, I'm not good enough to figure out mafia day one based purely off what people have posted. That's partly why I find a plan which is designed get as much information as possible so appealing. Electing someone mayor that you think is scum doesn't give you any information. Making that decision depends on the fact that you can figure out mafia on day one since you would need to do that anyway to elect a scum mayor. You're not making sense to me.
Are you purposely trying to mis-interpret me?
How does somebody being mayor and how he plays not give you information? Electing someone mayor puts them in the spot light and puts a ton of pressure on them. You admitted this yourself when you said you didn't want to be mayor. What they do with this allows town to understand them better. If I was for sure he was scum I wouldn't make him mayor I would lynch him.
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Notice the connection between Prom's fixation on confirmed townies and the fact that mafia know for certain who the town are (assuming no third party shenanigans, theorizing about third party is really a waste of time until later when it matters for LYLO) btw
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I have finished preening my Komodo Dragon's feathers and am here to help.
Firstly, The only people in this thread making any sense are VE and DrH. Besides them and myself nobody should even be considered for the mayoral role.
Randombum's election idea is really, really bad. So bad, it jumps out-- but his thought process tells me it's not scummy.
I don't like layabout but I _do_ like his support for a prom lynch. Layabout is no longer my lynch target should I get elected: Promethelax is. Prom has cleverly attacked me in my absence so that this will look like an OMGUS, but it's not. Here's a rundown of prom's RNG discussion.
To begin: Prom suggests as his platform RNG (link), states he believes in it utterly (link) and fails to adequately address people questioning whether it will be pure RNG (link)
His next mention of RNG is at 09:57 when he makes this post:+ Show Spoiler +On February 26 2013 09:57 Promethelax wrote:Okay, so RNG didn't create the discussion I wanted. Screw you guys. Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 09:28 Wade Fell wrote:
My new platform is killing Layabout
Read his posts
hes scum Explain. For the moment my top scum read is WoS, he responded to gerpit's candidacy all wrong, obviously assuming gerpit is town but statistically... Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 09:23 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 26 2013 09:20 geript wrote:
It looks to me that the best person for mayor is someone who is willing to:
A. put in the time to read the thread
B. both make and evaluate other's cases
C. is unlikely to be an early target for NK
In this regard I would nominate myself as I am more likely to devote more time to reading (both filters and filter in the context of the thread as a whole) than anyone else. Additionally, I am relatively unknown which removes untoward bias for or against me due to previous games as well as making me a more impartial arbiter as it regards established players.
My lynch platform is:
Scum read > hard/impossible to read > null read > town read
## vote geript Except for the fact that you were killed N1 last game for the above reasons, by someone who is very likely smurfing in this game. He focuses on the likelihood of a night kill on gerpit, he is too interested in night actions and not in the candidacy or the actual ideas which gerpit proposes. I'm not a fan of this post or WoS's mentality. Vote me, screw random lynch. I'll lynch WoS.
Other posters have outlined why this is enormously scummy, but also note that he pivots onto WoS here. He votes for VE despite VE saying that prom is on his lynch list, then he martyrs, then he makes this post, 3 hours after his post attacking WoS, attacking me: + Show Spoiler +On February 26 2013 12:50 Promethelax wrote:From Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 09:13 Wade Fell wrote:On February 26 2013 09:11 MilkSuckler wrote:On February 26 2013 09:09 Toadesstern wrote:okay actually screw that, I checked it. It's not pretty much exactly word for word, it IS word for word copy & paste. So it's not bullshit but supposed to be funny bullshit. Makes it decent and funny. From LIX: click me##unvote No shit Sherlock, thanks for admitting the humour in this. Vivax got it. Funny but my platform is still lynching you. On February 26 2013 09:11 JungleJorge wrote:On February 26 2013 09:05 Wade Fell wrote:
Make me the mayor. I'm a smurf, but I'll offer you a platform that should definitely convince you that your vote is best used to elect me. My platform:
1) Lynching MilkSuckler. Fuck that guy.
2) I will use my vote aggressively to push town agenda throughout the game. I am not afraid to write cases and lay down my vote. I am a serious person.
Now before you flame me, let me turn you around with this question: do you believe milksuckler had that post prepared before the game started? of course he did. Everything about that screams "pre-prepared post" which is fine if he's town but he wrote that when he didn't know his alignment. He could quite easily be scum.
Don't trust him. Lynch Milksuckler.
##vote Wade Fell I believe you are right in both your assumptions, that milksuckler had that post prepared and that he could be scum. I also believe every other player may also be scum. Does milksuckler having a prepared post make him more likely scum? How so? If not why does he stand out to you as to being the best lynch? On February 26 2013 09:06 Wade Fell wrote:On February 26 2013 09:04 JungleJorge wrote:
Mayor seems pretty irrelevant. I suggest we do day one as if there was no mayor, and in the end people vote for the towniest looking out of those who want to lynch your main suspect. What do you guys think? This is literally a terrible idea Would you care to expand on that? I'm trying to decide between you trying to bring in some activity or trying to get into my invisible poster list. If you don't already understand why I said that based on my posts, there's nothing I can do to help you.  To Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 09:22 Wade Fell wrote:On February 26 2013 09:19 layabout wrote:lets kill wade for this: On February 26 2013 09:08 Wade Fell wrote:
I'm sorry there's a possibility you are a newer player, so I will explain thoroughly: The mayor has two votes, and the runner-up for mayor gains a power that's basically only useful to mafia. We can't just go voting townreads. We have to have people state clearly why they are voting who they are voting for, and potential mayoral candidates must clearly outline who they will use the lynch on and why. Anything less is bad.
Yes, ideally you vote in the towniest player as mayor, but someone can be townie and useless. Mayor determines today's lynch. The idea that Mayor is irrelevant is one you should cast out of your mind as soon as possible. On the basis that it promotes a mafia agenda. The most important thing about the election is to get town into the two roles. Do you disagree with the paragraphs overall, or are you just cherrypicking a single sentence? Because, after all, I'm calling for people to explain their votes and mayoral candidates to explain who they're lynching in addition to people voting townreads. I know you're a smart guy, layabout, so you're not misreading me here. You're intentionally misrepresenting my claims. Why are you doing so? To omgus Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 09:28 Wade Fell wrote:
My new platform is killing Layabout
Read his posts
hes scum I've read wade's posts and he's scum. You should read them too.
And this seems, well, fairly normal. Having abandoned RNG in a scummy fashion and martyred his election to mayor (scummy or pissy, your call), he pushes WoS and then decides I'm scum. But examine, for a moment, the post he has in his case against me. He largely quotes me being abrasive, interacting aggressively with others, and calling out layabout, and he says I'm scum. But all these quotes, all these posts, are posts he had at his fingertips when he initially attacked WoS! In fact, that last post about my platform being layabout was posted 30 minutes before his post attacking WoS.
So what we have here isn't a townie following the thread whose reads evolve with the time. This is a scum player grasping for someone to point the finger at, someone to blame. This falls perfectly in line with what DrH says here (link) when he quotes from Ver's guide. Ver's guide is telling us that town is earnest, town pushes their reads, town ideas follow a logical train of thought, whereas scum reasoning is warped by the need to support and protect scum teammates.
Prom is warped.
Elect me, and I will see him lynched. Failing that, my vote goes to those townies who would lynch him.
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On February 26 2013 14:40 randombum wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 13:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 26 2013 13:19 randombum wrote:On February 26 2013 12:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 26 2013 12:35 randombum wrote:On February 26 2013 12:30 The Macho Man wrote:On February 26 2013 12:29 randombum wrote:
Well obviously lynching scum is good. But the idea is we can use it to gain a lot of information that simply elected a town mayor who is likely to die does not. why are we trying to get information instead of lynching scum? Why are you treating gathering information and lynching scum as mutually exclusive. This plan involves lynching the scum target and putting another in the spotlight. I could get it if you said something like "this plan would never work because...." or something like that, but to simply dismiss it because gathering information is bad? no one cares about or likes your plan so tell us who we should lynch or who you think the mayor should be. if you want to have a scum mayor, that's essentially the same question right? Honestly, I'm not good enough to figure out mafia day one based purely off what people have posted. That's partly why I find a plan which is designed get as much information as possible so appealing. Electing someone mayor that you think is scum doesn't give you any information. Making that decision depends on the fact that you can figure out mafia on day one since you would need to do that anyway to elect a scum mayor. You're not making sense to me. Are you purposely trying to mis-interpret me? How does somebody being mayor and how he plays not give you information? Electing someone mayor puts them in the spot light and puts a ton of pressure on them. You admitted this yourself when you said you didn't want to be mayor. What they do with this allows town to understand them better. If I was for sure he was scum I wouldn't make him mayor I would lynch him.
Why not just put a ton of pressure on someone because you think they're scum anyway? I don't understand why they have to be mayor or what conditions you would find acceptable. So are you going to vote for your top scumread to be mayor as a form of pressure? Why not just call them out in the thread and try to convince people to lynch him?
You can't know whether the person is scum or not and they're going to be pressured as mayor either way so.... I just don't get it. Enlighten me because you've done a poor job of explaining your plan or whatever it is you have. My question is why you think this is somehow more helpful than just old fashioned scumhunting. So far it seems like this is just your way of being able to get away with not actually accusing anybody because you're afraid to.
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He clearly said his reasoning was based on the fact that he was giving Vivax BOD while he was not with WoS at the time in regard to the reasoning he was attacking WoS in the first place, being arguing about gretip's NK probability.
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I guess it reads as he got caught with his pants down, so to speak. Because Vivax was literally guilty of the same thing and I had already had a light scum read on Vivax anyway, so the fact that Prom just brushed off the fact that he was guilty of the same thing that WoS was lynchable for, and with such lousy reasoning, was especially damning for me.
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Yeah Wade I can support electing you - so long as you don't fuck off this day. My campaign never had a chance, and is only supported by what I perceive to be scum, so yeah.
##Unvote
##Vote: Wade Fell
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On February 26 2013 14:44 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 14:40 randombum wrote:On February 26 2013 13:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 26 2013 13:19 randombum wrote:On February 26 2013 12:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 26 2013 12:35 randombum wrote:On February 26 2013 12:30 The Macho Man wrote:On February 26 2013 12:29 randombum wrote:
Well obviously lynching scum is good. But the idea is we can use it to gain a lot of information that simply elected a town mayor who is likely to die does not. why are we trying to get information instead of lynching scum? Why are you treating gathering information and lynching scum as mutually exclusive. This plan involves lynching the scum target and putting another in the spotlight. I could get it if you said something like "this plan would never work because...." or something like that, but to simply dismiss it because gathering information is bad? no one cares about or likes your plan so tell us who we should lynch or who you think the mayor should be. if you want to have a scum mayor, that's essentially the same question right? Honestly, I'm not good enough to figure out mafia day one based purely off what people have posted. That's partly why I find a plan which is designed get as much information as possible so appealing. Electing someone mayor that you think is scum doesn't give you any information. Making that decision depends on the fact that you can figure out mafia on day one since you would need to do that anyway to elect a scum mayor. You're not making sense to me. Are you purposely trying to mis-interpret me? How does somebody being mayor and how he plays not give you information? Electing someone mayor puts them in the spot light and puts a ton of pressure on them. You admitted this yourself when you said you didn't want to be mayor. What they do with this allows town to understand them better. If I was for sure he was scum I wouldn't make him mayor I would lynch him. Why not just put a ton of pressure on someone because you think they're scum anyway? I don't understand why they have to be mayor or what conditions you would find acceptable. So are you going to vote for your top scumread to be mayor as a form of pressure? Why not just call them out in the thread and try to convince people to lynch him? You can't know whether the person is scum or not and they're going to be pressured as mayor either way so.... I just don't get it. Enlighten me because you've done a poor job of explaining your plan or whatever it is you have. My question is why you think this is somehow more helpful than just old fashioned scumhunting. So far it seems like this is just your way of being able to get away with not actually accusing anybody because you're afraid to.
You have to think of this from the mind-set that mayor is screwed and follow me from there. Mayor has no bodyguard so he's likely to die. Might as well have the person likely to die be a scum suspect. If you read my initial plan my top scum read is not voted as mayor. He's what I pressure the scum suspect mayor to lynch. If scummy feeling mayor is unwilling to lynch my main scum suspect, that says a lot. I thought of this mayor election as a lynch vote. We find somebody we want to lynch and vote. However, we actually elect a scum suspect to become the mayor and force him to lynch a scum-buddy. By having my two main suspects lynch one of the other that gives me information.
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Suppose both of your suspects are scum. When Suspect 1 lynches Suspect 2 how is that going to make you feel about suspect 1? It's going to make you think you were wrong about him isn't it? But you weren't wrong were you because they're both scum. Think about it.
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Here's an idea - you seem to be enthusiastic about your chances of finding two scum suspects. Why don't you RUN for mayor and lynch one of them yourself! Then, you have an extra vote to try and lynch the other the next day! And look at it like this: if you were right and you lynch scum, then doctors will have NO CHOICE but to protect you! So the fact that you don't get bodyguards is ENTIRELY MOOT! ^^
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I'll tell you what: Promethelax is pretty much Scum Suspect #1. If you're able to find another scum and convince ME that he's scum too, I PROMISE to vote for you as mayor. PINKY SWEAR!
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On February 26 2013 14:43 Wade Fell wrote:
Firstly, The only people in this thread making any sense are VE and DrH. Besides them and myself nobody should even be considered for the mayoral role.
This vet circle jerking has to stop now
Being a vet does not guarantee your logic is sound; or that your shit smells better than mine and others.
Further it does not guarantee you are town.
All members of this game have a responsibility to be transparent in play and present well-reasoned thoughts.
Perhaps, players with lower experience would not make as capable a mayor as a vet; however:
(1) This mayor role is nerfed without BG - so the outcome of vet/new is of less importance
&
(2) Less experience is not synonymous with being incapable of reasoned thought that is CORRECT.
I don't have a problem with your prome case; I already commented on pretty much everything you wrote, a fair bit before you wrote it. But I guess it doesn't make sense, not coming from a confirmed vet.
The quicker you get over your game of 'soggy biscuit'; the quicker we are going to get along.
This is a scum player grasping for someone to point the finger at, someone to blame. This falls perfectly in line with what DrH says here (link) when he quotes from Ver's guide. .
Nice blatant buddying here. Im guessing you buy ya kneepads on bulk discount...
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That's quite the poisonous mindset you have there MilkMaid.
Do you think WF is scum? What was the point of that post? You seem to have taken his post as a direct attack on you, when I am confident that is not what was intended. There has been a LOT of derp in this thread that happened long before your case on Prom which you're so indignant about WF ignoring - I'm pretty sure that was the context his statement about VE and DrH was written about, not that your case was bad.
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It was a comment in general.
It was spurred because of his post though.
I think vets have a tendency to just ignore posts from non-vets; perhaps thats a valid way to separate wheat from chuff.
Note: I am actually not interested in running for mayor; as most have figured out, my campaign pitch was a joke.
The post was made because I don't want to feel my contributions are being ignored (unless they are totally shit house - which I do not think they are)
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....you are probably right. The only truly good information that my plan would generate is if suspect 1 is unwilling to lynch suspect 2 and would be willing to put himself under huge scrutiny to go against town and not lynch suspect 2. However, mafia could simply just lynch suspect 2 like a town would and everything falls apart.
And its the opposite of thinking my chances of finding two scum is very high. I'm not confident so the idea is I get two main suspects and pit them against each other. Hopefully one of the two at least is mafia. If instead its two townies then whelp, that's some bad play right there.
I'm done discussing this because the plan is clearly not taking off anyways.
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It's just interesting to hear you say that when I've been in here trying to back and forth with you about Prom after commenting on your case and this is what I get in response - that I'm participating in what you perceive as "vet circle-jerking".
I mentioned liking your case, but apparently that's not good enough. Think about it.
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On February 26 2013 15:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
That's quite the poisonous mindset you have there MilkMaid.
Further, perhaps the delivery was overtly aggressive; but the intention was far from poisonous.
Yes I know super town players exist that can solve the game blah blah; but comments like everyone is stupid just listen to us three are dangerous.
VE/Dr.H/WF are not confirmed town; and he is setting up people to blatantly sheep them by intimidation via experience.
Out of those three; Dr.H for me is the closet thing to be confirmed town.. and he has applied the same attitude to EVERYONE. Not just non-vets.
I am intercepting something before it grows out of control; and would make the same post again (perhaps less aggressively)
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On February 26 2013 15:22 randombum wrote:
....you are probably right. The only truly good information that my plan would generate is if suspect 1 is unwilling to lynch suspect 2 and would be willing to put himself under huge scrutiny to go against town and not lynch suspect 2. However, mafia could simply just lynch suspect 2 like a town would and everything falls apart.
And its the opposite of thinking my chances of finding two scum is very high. I'm not confident so the idea is I get two main suspects and pit them against each other. Hopefully one of the two at least is mafia. If instead its two townies then whelp, that's some bad play right there.
I'm done discussing this because the plan is clearly not taking off anyways.
Focus on finding scum - it's implied in your plan anyway. ^^
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On February 26 2013 15:23 VisceraEyes wrote:
It's just interesting to hear you say that when I've been in here trying to back and forth with you about Prom after commenting on your case and this is what I get in response - that I'm participating in what you perceive as "vet circle-jerking".
I mentioned liking your case, but apparently that's not good enough. Think about it.
The comment was not directed at you VE; but yes in hindsight I can see why you interpreted it that way. Apologies.
Is this something you want to further discuss; or is the matter closed?
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EPT
