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On March 07 2012 12:48 Pandain wrote:
this seems set up. Claim immediately after, because you like "suprises?" When your already under suspicion? Yeah, no.
That was my thinking too. If you want to claim a shot as vig especially if you are under suspicion you do it just before the deadline. That way there is no doubt about your shot. 2 minutes after the deadline is just too late. That being said if this was a gambit by mafia they would know who they were going to shoot and so could claim in the same manner. Unfortunately this tells us nothing about his alignment.
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On March 07 2012 12:34 Pandain wrote:
#vote Paperscraps
Awful quick vote there against a guy who's claiming blue. We have 2 days to figure out if he's lying or not, we should use it.
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I think Adam4167 and Paperscraps are both on the mafia team. Both of them defended sandroba in one way or another. They have hardly communicated in thread and neither have given an opinion on the other. When I called Adam for his scummy question this is what Paper wrote
No I gather you are wondering that if maybe mafia hit and roleblocked rg, then Adam's question would show some concern. We have know way of knowing that. Also Adam has been towntelling recently. I don't think he is scum. But he never gives us any indication of why Adam is town. What is towntelling about his behaviour? He completely dismisses my point without actually explaining why. It took Pandain to do that.
Then his scummy claim of the Jackal shot rings false to me. He never outlines a case on Jackal other than he was lurking. Jackal lurks a lot and he could have saved his shot for at least another night. It is way too risky a kill for a Vig who was never going to get shot. It doesn't make sense from a town Paperscraps point of view. There are other lurkers including Bluelightz who look far worse but he chooses to shoot the veteran? From scum point of view Jackal is liability to keep around better to shoot him and claim the shot. This way Paper might be believed as a Vig and Jackal dies. In addition attention is drawn away from the Jackal kill itself.
As for Adam he is trying really hard not to contribute but seem like he is. The only case he has put together has been on Palmar. What is also interesting but somewhat prone to WIFOM is that he targeted Palmar who is now dead. Jackal targeted him and is also now dead. This ties in with Paper taking credit for the shot. It draws attention away from Adam. He was not surprised that RG flipped green (implying he didn't believe his claims) but he wasn't surprised that he was shot. This is contradictory because if you don't believe his claims you would not expect him to be shot. He has never mentioned Paperscraps despite the abundance of people who have. Their only direct communication was about sandroba being a SK.
All of this is despite their terrible voting. Adam's wishy-washy switch to sandroba at the last minute which flatly contradicts his reasoning for voting for Palmar. Paperscraps vote on decon and then using this as a reason to vote for sandroba
If you aren't even going to try, then you are going to get lynched. Which is the very next post after Deconduo, TheToast, and Jackal are all better lynches. I don't know if we should lynch Sandroba yet, due to the hit claim. Sandroba is on ice though and needs to start contributing as do a lot of other players.
It's way too convenient. Sandroba had made it clear that he was actively not contributing. Why the sudden change? I'll tell you because it became clear they couldn't save him.
I would be happy to vote for either of these two.
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On March 07 2012 13:01 Snarfs wrote:Awful quick vote there against a guy who's claiming blue. We have 2 days to figure out if he's lying or not, we should use it.
Snarfs you have been logical this game. Who do you think is the best lynch out of Adam, Paperscraps and Bluelightz. Right now they are the one's I would consider lynching.
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Hah, your case is laughable. How can you possibly claim I seem like i'm trying to contribute? I have been actively not contributing since day 1. The rest of it is a pile of turds about my interactions with the now deceased and is complete WIFOM.
I've been acting like a dick to you because I thought you were scum the second you sheep voted onto sandroba with the reasoning of "my reads look a lot like Palmars, so ill vote like he does".
You've sidetracked this game into setup discussion which boils down to an answer no townie can know on more than one occasion.
You asked Pandain for his reads on who he thought was scum, he named Bluelightz, Jackal and myself.
This is a glaring contradiction to his stance towards me yesterday. He was actively defending me and pushing the lynch in any other direction. Yet you don't even bat an eye-lid at his complete 180.
Town Probulous is better then that, he would call out the glaring contradiction.
##Vote Probulous
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I hope you are not serious cause this is like WTF fail.
On March 07 2012 13:43 Adam4167 wrote:
I've been acting like a dick to you because I thought you were scum the second you sheep voted onto sandroba with the reasoning of "my reads look a lot like Palmars, so ill vote like he does".
Let me clarify that for you (linky) Here are the important bits from that quote
On March 03 2012 06:04 Probulous wrote:
Right now my reads correlate best with Palmar....Sandroba, you're not helping yourself. The quote from Jackal in L corresponds very well to your current play. This is why I want Jackal's opinion. He shot you then, would he shoot you now? Toast is right to call you out for lack of contribution. Your response enforces his case.
##vote Sandroba
It is pretty clear that I just said my reads correlate. I then go on to explain that sandroba's play is very similar to his play in Mafia L where he was scum. I even asked Jackal to comment because I (wrongly it turns out) thought he had shot sandroba. The point being I clearly thought he was scum. Compare this to your vote reason
On March 06 2012 08:55 Adam4167 wrote:
Its far too late in the day to start pushing another case. Id like to see a resolution to this night-hit situation.
##Vote sandroba
This after defending him all day long. You don't even say he is scum.
You've sidetracked this game into setup discussion which boils down to an answer no townie can know on more than one occasion. You asked Pandain for his reads on who he thought was scum, he named Bluelightz, Jackal and myself. This is a glaring contradiction to his stance towards me yesterday. He was actively defending me and pushing the lynch in any other direction. Yet you don't even bat an eye-lid at his complete 180.
He has been town to me since very early game. His interactions with Toast up front made him townie to me. Then his gambit which confirmed AKCT could be mafia but from my reading seems to be town. Besides he is actively contributing. He is here and discussing stuff with me. You are never here. Besides if you are so sure he is scum, why the vote on me? Either you think he is town (like me) or your point is bullshit.
You have not built a case here. Nothing you have quoted or pointed out comes from only a mafia's agenda. You say you have been contributing a lot. Well point me to a case besides Palmar where you label someone as scum for a reason? I can't see anything in your filter except for some defense with Jackal and me.
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EBWOP: OK reread you say you actively are not contributing. Point? If anything this just proves my point, you are useless and town Adam is not useless. You refuse to post information when we ask and you have done nothing all game. This does not make sense from a town perspective, especially if you have been targeted by others. You don't seem to want to even try and provide something of use.
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For my other town members out there please take a good look at this. This is what happens when mafia get caught with their pants down. They know I am on the right track, they know that I have some level of legitimacy in this town and they know the only possible way to silence me is to get me lynched and the bury my thoughts in the subsequent recrimination.
If Adam really thought I was mafia since Day 2, why would he vote for sandroba with such a terrible reason? He asked me about my "sheeping" of Palmar and I explained it. He apparently dropped it but was not satisfied by my response. What townie does that? If you don't like the response someone gives you, you push hard until you get a satisfactory one or there is no hope of resolution. Otherwise the question is just not important. But suddenly now, after I put together my case on Paper and Adam that innocuous question which I thought I had dealt with is the mother of all scum tells that proves I am mafia?
Look at everything I have done this game. I have pushed people on their vote records, I have tried to fathom what breadcrumbs I could from Palmar's demise, I have kept the thread going when no-one else was. I have pushed and prodded many of you to try and find the truth.
Adam, well Adam as he admits has done nothing. He has an aweful reason for voting for sandroba that flatly contradicts his reason for voting for Palmar. His reasoning for voting for someone who was never going to get lynched was he didn't think that Misder or sandroba was scum. Ok fair enough, but why on Day 2 do you suddenly change to sandroba with the reason of why the hell not? Especially if you think I am scum?
##vote Adam4167
Two reds in a row, this town is on a role.
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Probulous has been warned for out of thread communication. Please refrain from contacting or talking with other players about the game, outside the game thread, as it is in breach of the rules.
Post in question:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 07 2012 12:15 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 11:20 Probulous wrote:
LOL Toast, you so slow. Why you no post in our mafia game? First rule of Mafia: we don't talk about Mafia (outside of Mafia). Besides being a severe infraction of the rules in a non-PM game, this has the annoying potential to start a trend of stalking people on TL outside of Mafia. That is not a good precedent. + Show Spoiler +And if you must know I'm watching You Tube and Installing a Linux VM which has my attention a bit too divided for Mafia playing at the moment.
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Did you even read my cases against Bluelightz? I said as my first act in this game I would make sure he doesn't lurk. I have pushed him all game to provide something. What else am I supposed to do to make his alignment clear to us. I mean I can't very well post for him, the best I can do is place my vote and pressure him. It didn't work yesterday so my vote moved. No harm in trying again, but here you are undermining my efforts in this department.
I don't even know what to say here. One list of timezones and suddenly I am not contributing. *Shock horror* Please pull the other one.
It doesn't matter if his logic is horrible, what matters is whether I think he is town or scum. His defense whilst all over the place still seemed townie to me. Now after Pandain's gambit it seems he is townie, so hoorah I was correct. How this is a mark against me I have no idea?
I admit that post doesn't contain as much info as I originally thought it did. I was just trying to show how it made no sense to shoot RG. He clearly couldn't be a Vig or SK because he contradicted himself so often, therefore he must have been a VT or Veteran. Sure I could have worded it better but it is not the only thing I have posted.
You accuse me of looking as if i'm trying to contribute, when it is exactly what you have been doing all game.
I do think Pandain is town. I think you're scum. Your defence of yourself is to deflect back onto my questionable actions this game. That is not a defence at all.
The irony is strong with this one. I have nothing to defend, I am town, my actions show that. You have not provided a coherent case. When I present my case on you, you come back with this and you say I am the one deflecting.
I am never here because I have uni to attend, I am getting really sick of stating that. In fact, I'm going to be not here some more as I have uni work to finish.
If you're not going to play, don't play. You have had plenty of time to put something together, only when pushed do you suddenly find the time to put a case on me. No, this time you are mafia and I am town. The roles have switched and yet again we are on opposite sides. This time I hope to return the favour.
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I would also like to make a public apology to both TheToast and the hosts of this game. My actions were not intended in a malicious manner but they are against the rules.
Mr Wiggles has been gracious enough to give me a warning and let it be.
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@Pandain: Why would I claim I shot Jackal if I was scum? There is no motivation as scum to do this. Unless I was tracked or something, in which I would have to cc of course. I really don't get your logic here.
I am not getting lynched. I am clear. Jackal seemed scummy and was not contributing at all, thus he was a good shot. It is unfortunate he flipped green, but we have one less lurker now.
Pandain you have been playing well up to this point, but your vote on me makes no sense.
Everyone really needs to look at TheToast, Deconduo and Bluelightz.
I still think there is an SK.
14 players with ~3 or 4 mafia would be unbalanced. A third party would balance the setup. Town has two blue roles at the moment. Watcher(dead) and Vigilante(Me). It is probably safe to assume there is a medic as well. So that is 3 blue roles out of ~10 town players. This is just a guess of course, but would make the most sense balance wise.
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##Vote Adam4167
I gotta agree with Prob and the recently deceased on this one. Adam has been actively posting without providing any content.
Here's a good example for you:
On March 02 2012 12:58 Adam4167 wrote:Prob, my activity will come in bursts most of the game. I have uni back on now and also I don't like posting just for the sake of it, only when I feel I have something relevant to contribute. I find Palmar interesting, as I do in every one of our games. I think his exchange with you from yesterday was an exercise in stating the obvious, something I don't expect from him. As I said to him yesterday, everything he was stating was stuff that townies should already be doing and the fact that he needed to stress it across 4 posts shows that he is either just talking for the sake of putting words on a page, or he has no faith in this town. Right now, I am leaning towards he is not town. I find Pandains 'analysis' of Killer Cup interesting also. Pandain warns about making assumptions about your accusers here. Then he goes on to make the assumption that Killer Cup is so scummy that he cant be scum here. I made that assumption in Arkham City with jaybrundage, that he looked so damn scummy that he had to be bad town. Nope, wrong. He was just obvscum. I don't agree with Pandains logic, but that doesn't make him scum, so I have him as null for now. Misder, if you have all those reads on everyone, why not write a paragraph on each one and detail how you got to those reads. Writing everyone's name and then an alignment is pointless and we all love pointless lists around here. Your OMGUS vote on deconduo is weak. You're voting him because he has different reads to you? You need to start putting effort into your reads.
I also don't know what this is:
I have been actively not contributing since day 1.
But it certainly isn't pro-town.
And this:
You asked Pandain for his reads on who he thought was scum, he named Bluelightz, Jackal and myself.
This is a glaring contradiction to his stance towards me yesterday. He was actively defending me and pushing the lynch in any other direction. Yet you don't even bat an eye-lid at his complete 180.
Town Probulous is better then that, he would call out the glaring contradiction.
Looks an awful lot like misdirection to me.
I don't want to just leave it at that though. The strength of the town is in our numbers. Can we not use that?
One thing that immediately pops out is Adam's recent vote on Probulous.
Can anyone else besides Adam give a good reason for voting up Probulous? I mean, he seems like the most pro-town guy left! I would really like to hear Pandain and Dec's opinions on this, given they're the remaining veterans here. It also wouldn't hurt if AKCT chimed in, I feel like we haven't heard from that guy in awhile.
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On March 07 2012 16:21 Paperscraps wrote:
@Pandain: Why would I claim I shot Jackal if I was scum? There is no motivation as scum to do this. Unless I was tracked or something, in which I would have to cc of course. I really don't get your logic here.
I am not getting lynched. I am clear. Jackal seemed scummy and was not contributing at all, thus he was a good shot. It is unfortunate he flipped green, but we have one less lurker now.
Pandain you have been playing well up to this point, but your vote on me makes no sense.
Everyone really needs to look at TheToast, Deconduo and Bluelightz.
Paper why did you shoot last night? Here is why I ask. You were on people's scum list, it was clear that there were other targets far more likely to get shot than you. You could have saved your shot and pushed Jackal today for more information. You hardly pressured him at all. Yes he was lurking but he always lurks. As for why you would claim the shot, to clear your name. You just did it wrong. I honestly don't know what to make of your claim. If you had claimed before the deadline and had presented a case before night ended I would trust it but now well it is hard to believe.
More importantly what is your opinion of Adam and his case on me?
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@Snarfs: Who do you think is scum between Adam and Probulous?
It is hard to tell right now because both of their logic is kind of whack.
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On March 07 2012 16:21 Paperscraps wrote:
I still think there is an SK.
14 players with ~3 or 4 mafia would be unbalanced. A third party would balance the setup. Town has two blue roles at the moment. Watcher(dead) and Vigilante(Me). It is probably safe to assume there is a medic as well. So that is 3 blue roles out of ~10 town players. This is just a guess of course, but would make the most sense balance wise.
So someone was double-stacked last night then? You claim a shot, mafia obviously shoot and SK shoots. No-one else has claimed a shot so someone must have been double-stacked. After last night there is less evidence for a SK.
Night 1 sandroba claims a hit and turns out to be scum. Could be a gambit could be a SK with a mafia medic protect. Still only 1 confirmed KP.
Night 2 Palmar and Jackal shot. You claim a shot as a Vig. If this is true then surely mafia made the other hit. To me it seems more likely there is no SK than the SK double-stacked either yours or the mafia's hit. Still only one confirmed KP.
Now of course if you are lying about being a vig then it makes sense that there is a SK to account for the second KP.
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Disregard my last post lol.
On March 07 2012 16:47 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 16:21 Paperscraps wrote:
@Pandain: Why would I claim I shot Jackal if I was scum? There is no motivation as scum to do this. Unless I was tracked or something, in which I would have to cc of course. I really don't get your logic here.
I am not getting lynched. I am clear. Jackal seemed scummy and was not contributing at all, thus he was a good shot. It is unfortunate he flipped green, but we have one less lurker now.
Pandain you have been playing well up to this point, but your vote on me makes no sense.
Everyone really needs to look at TheToast, Deconduo and Bluelightz. Paper why did you shoot last night? Here is why I ask. You were on people's scum list, it was clear that there were other targets far more likely to get shot than you. You could have saved your shot and pushed Jackal today for more information. You hardly pressured him at all. Yes he was lurking but he always lurks. As for why you would claim the shot, to clear your name. You just did it wrong. I honestly don't know what to make of your claim. If you had claimed before the deadline and had presented a case before night ended I would trust it but now well it is hard to believe. More importantly what is your opinion of Adam and his case on me?
I shot Jackal, because I thought he was scum. I didn't think that people wouldn't believe my claim. I wasn't on that many people's scum list. Honestly I thought I would be clear today, but somehow people think I am mafia/sk who just outright claimed a kill. That makes no sense.
I think Adam is scum, but I need to look more closely at your filter Probulous before I am sure.
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On March 07 2012 16:57 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 16:21 Paperscraps wrote:
I still think there is an SK.
14 players with ~3 or 4 mafia would be unbalanced. A third party would balance the setup. Town has two blue roles at the moment. Watcher(dead) and Vigilante(Me). It is probably safe to assume there is a medic as well. So that is 3 blue roles out of ~10 town players. This is just a guess of course, but would make the most sense balance wise. So someone was double-stacked last night then? You claim a shot, mafia obviously shoot and SK shoots. No-one else has claimed a shot so someone must have been double-stacked. After last night there is less evidence for a SK. Night 1 sandroba claims a hit and turns out to be scum. Could be a gambit could be a SK with a mafia medic protect. Still only 1 confirmed KP. Night 2 Palmar and Jackal shot. You claim a shot as a Vig. If this is true then surely mafia made the other hit. To me it seems more likely there is no SK than the SK double-stacked either yours or the mafia's hit. Still only one confirmed KP. Now of course if you are lying about being a vig then it makes sense that there is a SK to account for the second KP.
Don't forget we could have had medic saves!
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On March 07 2012 16:51 Paperscraps wrote:
@Snarfs: Who do you think is scum between Adam and Probulous?
It is hard to tell right now because both of their logic is kind of whack.
Here let me lay it out for you.
Things Probulous has done for town
- Repeatedly attempted to get lurkers to post. eg Bluelightz
- Pushed everyone as potential scum to ascertain alignment (except possibly decon)
- Voted for sandroba on both Day 1 and Day 2
- Has pushed people for their reasoning for suspicious votes after a flip
- Posts often and responds to all queries
- Changes his mind when new evidence comes to light and is happy to change his reads. See AKCT
- Made his reasons for voting for Sandroba clear
I could go find quotes and evidence of this and more stuff I have done but it should be plainly obvious that I am town. I may not be the most effective but I am certainly trying. When Palmar noted sandroba looked scummy I went into his history. I found that game with Jackal and compared his play then and now. It fitted with him actively avoiding the thread. So I voted for him, then he claimed and looked scummier because I didn't believe he was a vet, so I voted for him again. You can't argue that I have not made reasons for my votes clear.
Things Adam4167 has done for town- Pushed and voted for Palmar on Day 1
- Defended himself from Jackal and myself Day 2
- His case on me
He has not even attempted to make his alignment clear. He says is busy and so can't post but he posts often enough not to be a lurker. His filter is as long as snarfs who has looked town for ages.
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EPT
