On September 16 2011 03:19 tnkted wrote:Okay, Lucidity is scum. I liked his dreamflower analysis at first (because it was the only true analysis posted like, this entire game), but upon reading the rest of his stuff its clear that he's scum. Hes been hopping on bandwagons, throwing out soft foses, and trying to deflect attention from himself. We will start with the latter:
Deflection attentionOn September 13 2011 07:34 Lucidity wrote:On September 13 2011 06:23 Forumite wrote:On September 13 2011 02:25 Lucidity wrote:
Not particularly.
I've never been in a Day 0 before. Discussing ponies seems to be the best course of action.
Just checking, you were in TL Mafia XLIII and Arkham Asylum, and played Vanilla Townie in both?
I was a goon in AA. A Vet in Kurumi's TF2 themed mafia and VT in XLIII. 2 of those games were PM games and I was pretty inactive in XLIII, so
my meta on TL is pretty useless.This is a small game so there shouldn't be too many posts. However little there may be to read, a lurker or two is bound to pop up. What are your thoughts on how to deal with them?
Translation: "My meta on TL is pretty useless, don't even try to understand me or my motives. I'm unreadable. Yeah baby. Total badass."
But just so that nobody forgets this important fact (ie, if he seems scummy its just because you don't know his meta, so be unsure about everything) he posts it again.
On September 13 2011 22:08 Lucidity wrote:On September 13 2011 21:51 Forumite wrote:On September 13 2011 08:01 Forumite wrote:On September 13 2011 07:34 Lucidity wrote:
I was a goon in AA. A Vet in Kurumi's TF2 themed mafia and VT in XLIII. 2 of those games were PM games and I was pretty inactive in XLIII, so my meta on TL is pretty useless.
AA, wasn´t the Goons there part of Town?
How´s your Veteran Metagame?
With everyone accusing me of avoiding questions, I think I´d like some old ones of my own answered.
Lucidity, what role did you have in Arkham Asylum? Arkham Staff, basically a normal Goon?
Is there something in your Veteran Metagame that makes those games useless for metagame purposes?
I played as a Goon and a Vet in PM games, so a lot of discussion is not in the thread at all. I've played 1 game as Green, 1 as Blue and 1 as Red.
I don't think I have any kind of reliable meta on here. Soft FoSesThen he throws this weird, semi-FOS on dreamflower but doesn't commit to a vote or even any sort of honest pressure on her, asking her to explain herself. You'll note that he didn't have any trouble throwing a vote on forumite, or any of the people after his dreamflower analysis.
On September 14 2011 19:55 Lucidity wrote:On September 14 2011 00:18 dreamflower wrote:
At the moment, I am more in favor of lynching an inactive, because town lurkers still don't help the town if they're not sharing their thoughts or giving us information and Mafia lurkers are, well, Mafia. I am currently unconvinced by the cases so far, as they tend to be based on post-by-post analyses of posts made on Day 1, when most of us were unsure of what we should be discussing or trying to accomplish. Generally, I tend to be skeptical of post-by-post analysis, as they often are just nitpicking at small contradictions or confusing phrases in posts that perhaps the poster just didn't think through clearly and they seem to assume that Mafia will give themselves away a little in every post, which they usually don't. Right now, the cases made against Forumite and Greymist strike me as being more like townies accusing townies, so I'm hesitant to vote for a lynch based on those cases.
I did think it was a little odd that Forumite asked for a DT check on Jackal. But it seems like Jackal is a pretty well-known player, so I suppose it makes sense that he is subject to the scrutiny that well-known players tend to receive, like Ver or Ace. Jackal himself also seems quieter than I expected, though perhaps that is only because it is so early in the game.
So, I would much prefer lynching a lurker right now. The lurkers that stand out most to me are Sevryn and DroneAllDay. Of these two, the latter has specifically stated that he is very new and will be lurking a lot, which on one hand could be an honest statement of confusion but on the other hand could be a Mafia trying to look like a clueless newbie. The former, Sevryn, has made only a few game-related, non-pony-discussing posts, most regarding the Day post and how it'll give us more to talk about. Yet, he himself hasn't said anything substantial after the Day post except "Oh yay Day post. So, what are the Elements of Harmony?" I would very much like to hear from these two players sometime soon. I also wouldn't mind hearing about everyone's thoughts regarding the merits and flaws of lynching inactives versus lynching someone in particular.
Essentially this post served two purposes:
- Introducing the idea of really attempting to lynch a lurker today. Getting a feel for our willingness to follow such a strategy with the last sentence.
- Discrediting the cases brought forward so far.
Lynching lurkers should be a last resort. Going after lurkers (and by lurkers she actually means INACTIVES) allows scum to not offer any opinions and simply sheep onto an easy vote. This is not an ideal situation to say the least.
She discredits the cases against Forumite and Greymist, by simply saying that she doesn't like post by post analysis and that she thinks townies are accusing townies. Could you explain why you think townies are accusing townies dreamflower? You offer no reason to doubt the case based on actual discussion points. Simply "oh I'm unconvinced".
On September 14 2011 00:25 dreamflower wrote:
Bah. And now that I posted, Sevryn has posted and even voted for Forumite. -_- I'm still a little cautious about the case on Forumite, as people seem to be basing it mostly on that one post and making him defend his ideas. I agree that his defense has also been inept, but I don't think it necessarily means he is Mafia.
For now, I guess I will just vote for DroneAllDay. And learn to refresh the page a lot better while I'm posting.
##vote DroneAllDay
Note the displeasure when she sees that someone else voted Forumite. So instead of waiting for other's opinions on the LaL strategy she proposed, she goes ahead with it to try and divert attention away from real scum hunting by voting for DroneAllDay.
Look at the reasoning in that post.
She is visibly upset with another vote on Forumite.
She thinks his defense is inept.
But somehow he does not deserve any attention.
Instead she "guesses" she'll vote for DroneAllDay.
Point? She's defending Forumite with no real reasoning. She puts her vote on an inactive, not a lurker.
On September 14 2011 02:23 dreamflower wrote:On September 14 2011 00:32 Jackal58 wrote:
Dreamflower lynching inactives is counter productive. Inactives are most likely going to be mod killed. Lurkers on the other hand are a different animal. There is a difference between the two. When you said inactives I'm pretty sure you were still referring to lurkers.
Ah, true. Yes, I was referring to lurkers when I said inactives. My apologies. A lot of my thinking still dates back to the olden days before inactivity modkills or the Ban List, so please excuse me if I phrase things oddly like that.
I also agree about OriginalName, whom I'm a little annoyed about not noticing myself. I also noticed that DroneAllDay's statement of Mafia newness came very soon after he signed up and long before roles were sent out, so that pretty much rules out his being a Mafia trying to masquerade as a newbie. My mistake there. OriginalName's one contribution to the thread after the Day post has been to call Forumite's post "a huge pile of fluff," but after that he hasn't said anything else at all. That does look more like lurking than outright inactivity.To add my own opinion on the merits of lynching lurkers, I think it is a good idea early on, when we don't have much information to work with. I agree that lynching lurkers doesn't yield much information afterward, but I don't think going after "real" targets always does either. The people who argue for a townie to be lynched or vote for their lynch are not necessarily Mafia themselves. So, I don't think either approach can give us much in the way of useful information.
The part highlighted in red essentially explains why ON is where her vote should be. DroneAllDay is an inactive, which she doesn't want to go for. She wants lurkers, and ON is one. Yet her vote stays on DroneAllDay. She dedicates an entire paragraph to explaining why DAD is a bad vote, and then doesn't change it.
Then she goes on to try and push the LaL objective. We shouldn't be lynching for information. DEFINITELY not on Day 1. We should be hunting scum. Lynching lurkers (inactives) is not scum hunting. It doesn't give us any information, which you think is important? Yet you still advocate lynching lurkers. Going after "real" targets actually DOES offer us information ito voting patterns, defenses e t c . Not that, that is our first priority, but it blows your LaL policy out of the water.
tl;dr
Defends Forumite and greymist with no reasoning.
Pushes anti-town objective of lynching inactives instead of scum hunting.
(Note that she really means inactives when she says lurkers, even though she indicated otherwise. Her posts make that clear enough.)
But thats not the only soft FOS he throws out. Here's some snide remark about curu, undermining towns confidence in him:
On September 14 2011 20:03 Lucidity wrote:
I'll delve into that Curu/sinani/nisani shitstorm later.
Curu has scarred me with his brilliant Mafia play in XLIII(IV)? No matter how town he looks I'm always going to be doubting him now -_-
BandwagoningIt begins with forumite:
On September 13 2011 20:29 Lucidity wrote:
Do you think you have saved Jackal from a lynch? He has done nothing scummy so far and was certainly nowhere close to being lynched. Is that some scum-guilt overreaction I'm seeing?
There are many scenarios where we can't trust a DT check. We don't know their sanity, we don't know if there is a framer or millers, there could be fake claims. Even if you didn't consider a framer, the plan didn't make sense and my main point is that you contradicted yourself w.r.t. the use of Blue roles. But it doesn't seem as if you're going to address that.
Vote: Forumite
Then has that post on dreamflower above, but he doesn't commit. Instead, he hops on four (five?) wagons at once, but commits to sinani. What this does is throw suspicion on several people, but commits to the easiest lynch.
On September 15 2011 08:01 Lucidity wrote:
Man. Why is everyone scummy. chaos13/sinani/Forumite/tnkted... I can't tell if Curu tried to cause chaos or if he's just being really aggressive... Policy lynching someone for actions in another game isn't something I think a good player would do. Curu hasn't advocated it in other games with Kenpachi/Kurumi as far as I'm aware, and he basically views them as unreadable too.
Of these I think sinani is our best bet... Both in terms of getting the required numbers and in terms of likely scum. The reactions surrounding Curu's attack on him are quite suspect.
##Unvote
##Vote sinani
On September 15 2011 08:40 Lucidity wrote:
Can everypony stop with the name calling? There's no need to be rude.
I think tnkted is a great choice, but is his lynch a realistic possibility? I won't be here for the lynch so I feel safer leaving my vote on sinani.
WBG: In what world could sinani and Curu both be scum?
TLDR: Lucidity is scum. He's trying to blend in by throwing out soft FOSes and hopping on wagons. Vigs should hit him tonight, and we should vote him tomorrow.
Lol. That is quite laughable.
Er yeah. If you look at the quotes I'm responding to direct questions. I'm not deflecting anything. I simply explained that reading my past games is somewhat of a waste of time, because they were PM games or I was inactive. Try again?
I didn't vote for dreamflower, because I liked Forumite more. dreamflower's posts bugged me so I went through them when I woke up and posted that analysis. I wanted to hear her explanation. Some of her response was plausible, but I still think she thinks from a scum POV. Her problem with WBG's Hammer just strengthened my opinion. I don't agree with any of her opinions so far; she seems to have a scum mindset imo.
Ludicrous. I was the first vote on Forumite? How is that bandwagoning?
As for the "5 wagons" I jumped on (lol?): They are all acting suspicious. I voted for sinani because we need a majority to lynch, and none of the other candidates seemed to be viable options. We barely made majority with only 7 votes on him at deadline. I don't regret my choice. I guess if your wagon had more support behind it we might have lynched scum Day1?
I don't understand how you could praise me yesterday and attack me today on the same post.
Your case is extremely weak I'm afraid. But it has strengthened the case against you. Scum struggle to see scummy behaviour, which results in analyses such as that above. Your earlier behaviour is consistent with this as well. I'm liking our chances for Day 2
EPT
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