|
On August 10 2012 06:51 Lvdr wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Honestly, I read through it and I felt it was a great case and you somehow convinced me a bit (enough to make Lvdr my number 1 suspect) ! The "Both hapa and yh are mafia or both are town?" got me ! Being town, I would only have written "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" or at least in a different order (town before mafia)... I find this passage by Sideni somewhat scummy. Sideni claims a weak command of english multiple times, but is still comfortable bandwagoning mkfuba's argument with a semantic argument. As i said last game, scum hate making their own cases, and Sideni's is pretty fluffy. FOS Sideni
Concerning my bad English :
When I say that you have to forgive me if I don't master English that well, I'm just saying that I may sometimes make a mistake with grammar or a vocabular one. I may also not use the appropriate words.
However, I am able to translate from English to French and the quote I'm referring to can be read that way : "Hapa et YH sont mafias ou civils ?"
You have to understand that translating from word to word, I can easily say that I would have said something a specific way...
Concerning the fact that I didn't make my own case :
Why would I make a second case about yourself if mkfuba already made one ?
Mostly when I have nothing to add to it...
If something convinces me, I'll tell you what about it convinces me ...
Finally, you say that I'm fluffy (you don't give a specific example and I don't mind). However, just imagine if I would have made my own case about yourself. The exact same thing that our buddy mkfuba said ! It would be even more fluffy !
Sometimes, even if you're town, it's just better to keep yourself quiet if you have nothing to add (it just creates confusion)
Your suspicions about myself make me even more suspicious...
Making this post, ou just act like I'm an easy target and because I think you're suspicious, you turn against me (which is, in my opinion, somewhat of a way a scum would act)
I have to call it : FOS lvdr
|
@iamperfection - Why are you so hostile to the idea of analysis? You are also "trying to get people to talk" so why is this scummy behavior when I do the same? You clearly mailed-it-in on that case, making an OMGUS case because you're mad at me for some reason.
@everyone - What is the book on emotional players?
|
On August 10 2012 07:32 Sideni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 06:51 Lvdr wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Honestly, I read through it and I felt it was a great case and you somehow convinced me a bit (enough to make Lvdr my number 1 suspect) ! The "Both hapa and yh are mafia or both are town?" got me ! Being town, I would only have written "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" or at least in a different order (town before mafia)... I find this passage by Sideni somewhat scummy. Sideni claims a weak command of english multiple times, but is still comfortable bandwagoning mkfuba's argument with a semantic argument. As i said last game, scum hate making their own cases, and Sideni's is pretty fluffy. FOS Sideni Concerning my bad English : When I say that you have to forgive me if I don't master English that well, I'm just saying that I may sometimes make a mistake with grammar or a vocabular one. I may also not use the appropriate words. However, I am able to translate from English to French and the quote I'm referring to can be read that way : "Hapa et YH sont mafias ou civils ?" You have to understand that translating from word to word, I can easily say that I would have said something a specific way... Concerning the fact that I didn't make my own case : Why would I make a second case about yourself if mkfuba already made one ? Mostly when I have nothing to add to it... If something convinces me, I'll tell you what about it convinces me ... Finally, you say that I'm fluffy (you don't give a specific example and I don't mind). However, just imagine if I would have made my own case about yourself. The exact same thing that our buddy mkfuba said ! It would be even more fluffy ! Sometimes, even if you're town, it's just better to keep yourself quiet if you have nothing to add (it just creates confusion) Your suspicions about myself make me even more suspicious... Making this post, ou just act like I'm an easy target and because I think you're suspicious, you turn against me (which is, in my opinion, somewhat of a way a scum would act) I have to call it : FOS lvdr
Okay here's the thing I don't get (afair lvdr really stood out with that reasoning in game 0.5 - he was town that game though):
If you're (vanilla) town, why would you be concerned with being second on a case?
You should not be scared of getting lynched, like, ever. People might accuse you of bandwagoning - so what?
Once you flip green, it's just more evidence against them.
I understand that tunneling a single person too hard would be bad, but two people is not too much by any stretch of the imagination.
Is my mentality just wrong here?
|
I wasn't accusing Sideni of bandwaggoning. Agreeing with mkfuba's case is not what I found suspicious. The fact that it is directed against me is irrelevant.
It was the additional case Sideni provided. How does changing the order in any way change whether there was a scum tell or not? Whether I happened to say town or mafia first I think the suspicion would have been similar. Therefore, Sideni's addition reads as quite fluffy to me.
|
EBWOP: The "Both hapa and yh are mafia or both are town?" got me ! Being town, I would only have written "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" or at least in a different order (town before mafia)...
This is the fluff.
|
On August 10 2012 07:40 Dandel Ion wrote:
If you're (vanilla) town, why would you be concerned with being second on a case?
Is my mentality just wrong here?
Well, I either answer to his post saying that I don't even care defending myself or I explain myself (just as I did) or I just don't answer...
What is the smartest choice in your opinion ? I would gladly sacrifice myself to turn green to reveal that he's suspicious. However, I don't think it's smart 
If I just say that I don't care, it just feels to me that I don't pay attention to all details =/
If I don't answer, I'm being a lurker and this is bad for my party ! Gotta keep talking and if the talking can lead to something, then it's perfect ! :D
So, last choice, I decided to explain myself. There's nothing wrong about explaining yourself ever ! 
On August 10 2012 07:59 Lvdr wrote:
How does changing the order in any way change whether there was a scum tell or not? Whether I happened to say town or mafia first I think the suspicion would have been similar. Therefore, Sideni's addition reads as quite fluffy to me.
Oh, I thought it was obvious, so I guess I skipped on that point ... =/
Well, first, if you only say "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" you look like a real town player (you care for the right thing).
To illustrate myself, I'll have to use an example.
Let's say you have oranges and grapefruits in a bag and you can't see them.
Now, let's say you want an orange. You'll put your hand on one, you'll take it out (closing your eyes) and you'll ask the guy holding the bag : "Is this an orange ?"
because that's the orange you want
However, you asked : "Is this an orange or a grapefruit ?"
Someone wouldn't talk about the grapefruit at all...
Now, let's reverse the words : "Is this a grapefruit or an orange ?"
First, you would never ask about the grapefruit at all !
Hmmm nevermind, I don't have to keep going on my explanation, I just realized how dumb my logic was xD
I'm sorry to everybody for the confusion xD
Well, at least, the fact that you wouldn't usually ask for town is still right !
|
Time to weigh in from the shadows:
I'm hesitant to level a FOS at anyone right now, but if i did level one it would be at lvdr. I found myself nodding when reading mkfuba's lengthy post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=24#462. The tenor of his posts (drunk or not) just strike of obfuscation more than anything else. But to excerpt a particularly cloudy question from lvdr:
"@everyone - What is the book on emotional players?" I don't understand what you mean by emotional players. Could you clarify? Also, are you saying that iamp an emotional player with that open-ended question? And does the book refer to how to handle them collectively?
When hapa brought me to task on my first post, I got emotional and felt under-the-gun. I saw the first bold text leveled in my general direction I made a flippant terse reactionary comment and clicked send. That was emotional play. After reading his next post, I took a deep breath and realized it wasn't an attack, just a note of confusion.
Basically, I'm just having trouble distinguishing in my mind what "emotional play" could be other than play without logic or thought behind it.
--
On August 10 2012 05:58 Promethelax wrote:Discuss the game and the players, we essentially got a free meta test day with D1.0 so we are starting from a better position than we were in on the first day one. I, for one, see more from this day than the one before it.
It seems that people are referencing behavior from Day .5 often and letting those past behaviors inform decisions. I have not read the first 19pages or so of back-and-forth, choosing rather to comb since the dawn of Day 1. Is it common practice for newcomers to read the null day's proceedings? I'll start going back to it if that's the case.
Fluffy sidenote:+ Show Spoiler + I had a little "Aha!" moment when Dandel wrote: On August 10 2012 07:40 Dandel Ion wrote:
If you're (vanilla) town, why would you be concerned with being second on a case?
You should not be scared of getting lynched, like, ever. People might accuse you of bandwagoning - so what?
Once you flip green, it's just more evidence against them.
It makes perfect sense though. In case you all missed it, I'm a vanilla townie. I for one feared being "outed" by someone because of the time investment spent into the game, and the long-term commitment to reading and responding. If I'm outed and lynched as a townie I still get to read the following proceedings and see what happened as a result of my death. All of the fun popcorn action, and less of the stress and verbal riposte!
That's all for now, more later.
|
On August 10 2012 08:28 Sideni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 07:40 Dandel Ion wrote:
If you're (vanilla) town, why would you be concerned with being second on a case?
Is my mentality just wrong here? Well, I either answer to his post saying that I don't even care defending myself or I explain myself (just as I did) or I just don't answer... What is the smartest choice in your opinion ? I would gladly sacrifice myself to turn green to reveal that he's suspicious. However, I don't think it's smart If I just say that I don't care, it just feels to me that I don't pay attention to all details =/ If I don't answer, I'm being a lurker and this is bad for my party ! Gotta keep talking and if the talking can lead to something, then it's perfect ! :D So, last choice, I decided to explain myself. There's nothing wrong about explaining yourself ever !
I think you misunderstood a little... I'm saying you shouldn't hold back anything just because you're concerned how it'd reflect on you.
I did not suggest you go and commit suicide.
|
On August 10 2012 08:36 Dandel Ion wrote:
I think you misunderstood a little... I'm saying you shouldn't hold back anything just because you're concerned how it'd reflect on you.
Taking note of that !
I just don't want a mislynch for town xD
|
On August 10 2012 08:28 Sideni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 07:59 Lvdr wrote:
How does changing the order in any way change whether there was a scum tell or not? Whether I happened to say town or mafia first I think the suspicion would have been similar. Therefore, Sideni's addition reads as quite fluffy to me.
Oh, I thought it was obvious, so I guess I skipped on that point ... =/ Well, first, if you only say "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" you look like a real town player (you care for the right thing). To illustrate myself, I'll have to use an example. Let's say you have oranges and grapefruits in a bag and you can't see them. Now, let's say you want an orange. You'll put your hand on one, you'll take it out (closing your eyes) and you'll ask the guy holding the bag : "Is this an orange ?" because that's the orange you want However, you asked : "Is this an orange or a grapefruit ?" Someone wouldn't talk about the grapefruit at all... Now, let's reverse the words : "Is this a grapefruit or an orange ?" First, you would never ask about the grapefruit at all !
Hmmm nevermind, I don't have to keep going on my explanation, I just realized how dumb my logic was xD
I'm sorry to everybody for the confusion xDWell, at least, the fact that you wouldn't usually ask for town is still right !
Bolded part and your analogy that doesn't go anywhere looks pretty scummy to me. There's basically no goal, direction or reason behind this, but you still feel the need to share it with us. You apologize for the confusion, but good town play, in my book, is trying to AVIOD confusion. Confusion, gray shades and everything inbetween just give scum openings for misinterpretations.
Please, in the bolded part you clearly showed that you have the theoretical ability to think your posts through, the only thing left is to actually do it.
|
Argh typos in a post chiding players for not checking what they post, gg me.
|
Un-Fos Lvdr and iamperfection
I'm pretty satisfied with Lvdr's activity and defense so far. In addition, he's going after lurkers (Sideni) and is actively defending himself. I see enough similarities with his town play from the aborted game to give him the benefit of the doubt.
As for iamperfection, I think I'm falling victim to confirmation bias on him again. My case was based around his "going with the flow," and his questioning of Promethelax kinda destroys that bit of it. I'm satisfied enough with his activity to lay down my case.
However, I do find two players very suspicious at the moment:
FOS Axero and GoodKarma
Both players have been pretty lurky so far; Axero with 2 posts and GK with 3. Furthermore, neither has contributed anything significant to the discussion.
GoodKarma's three posts have only to do with disagreeing with the lurker policy. He hasn't done anything else while everyone in the town is actively discussing/throwing around suspicions. I find his lack of posting very unsettling.
Axero has two posts, one fluff/introductory post, and another that idly points suspicion:
On August 09 2012 14:22 Axero wrote:
That doesn't mean Hapa is a townie. Scum know who eachother are, therefore Hapa could know your alignment and could be setting you up to get lynched. It's a good way to shift focus to someone else while also seeming like a townie.
It is also possible that they are both scum. Setting someone up as a sacrifice to ensure everyone views the other as a townie would seem like a very effective strategy.
Just my two cents.
(Post made from mobile so apologies for lack of quotes)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=24#478
As I pointed out in the link above, his ideas are fairly illogical, and it reads to me like a useless-post designed only to point suspicion.
|
On August 10 2012 08:47 Dandel Ion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 10 2012 08:28 Sideni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 07:59 Lvdr wrote:
How does changing the order in any way change whether there was a scum tell or not? Whether I happened to say town or mafia first I think the suspicion would have been similar. Therefore, Sideni's addition reads as quite fluffy to me.
Oh, I thought it was obvious, so I guess I skipped on that point ... =/ Well, first, if you only say "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" you look like a real town player (you care for the right thing). To illustrate myself, I'll have to use an example. Let's say you have oranges and grapefruits in a bag and you can't see them. Now, let's say you want an orange. You'll put your hand on one, you'll take it out (closing your eyes) and you'll ask the guy holding the bag : "Is this an orange ?" because that's the orange you want However, you asked : "Is this an orange or a grapefruit ?" Someone wouldn't talk about the grapefruit at all... Now, let's reverse the words : "Is this a grapefruit or an orange ?" First, you would never ask about the grapefruit at all !
Hmmm nevermind, I don't have to keep going on my explanation, I just realized how dumb my logic was xD
I'm sorry to everybody for the confusion xDWell, at least, the fact that you wouldn't usually ask for town is still right ! Bolded part and your analogy that doesn't go anywhere looks pretty scummy to me. There's basically no goal, direction or reason behind this, but you still feel the need to share it with us. You apologize for the confusion, but good town play, in my book, is trying to AVIOD confusion. Confusion, gray shades and everything inbetween just give scum openings for misinterpretations.Please, in the bolded part you clearly showed that you have the theoretical ability to think your posts through, the only thing left is to actually do it.
Alright sir, I need some explanation from yourself ... You tell me in that post that a good town player would avoid confusion (that's why I cut on what I say sometimes).
Although, in a post before, you're telling me that I shouldn't be afraid to say what I think...
On August 10 2012 08:36 Dandel Ion wrote:
I'm saying you shouldn't hold back anything just because you're concerned how it'd reflect on you.
You're not coherent in your sayings. (I know that I can be incoherent as well, but that's why I excuse myself and that I explain my thoughts)
I made a mistake in my logic and I thought it would be great to assume that it's my fault and to explain it instead of just saying "nevermind, I made a mistake"...
As I already said, you're not coherent in your sayings about what you want me to do and it makes you suspicious to my eyes.
Next thing that bugs me is that I've been pressuring lvdr a bit and at some point, you just came to defend him ... =/
I'm currently under pressure by both lvdr and you and nobody comes to help me
I'm suspicious about you two.
I looked at all the posts of lvdr and not a single one refers to you (in the current game).
I did the same with your posts and the only time I have a result where you're talking about lvdr, it's either because you use a quote from someone talking about lvdr or because you're defending him...
There's nothing, whatsoever, in the game, where you interact with each other, yet you both seem to be teamed up against me right now... You didn't even suspected each other even if there's enough material to ask yourself some questions ...
For these reasons, I want to say FOS both of you, but I don't know if I can do that according to the rules.
But, you're both on the same level of suspicions.
|
On August 10 2012 09:19 Sideni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 08:47 Dandel Ion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 10 2012 08:28 Sideni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 07:59 Lvdr wrote:
How does changing the order in any way change whether there was a scum tell or not? Whether I happened to say town or mafia first I think the suspicion would have been similar. Therefore, Sideni's addition reads as quite fluffy to me.
Oh, I thought it was obvious, so I guess I skipped on that point ... =/ Well, first, if you only say "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" you look like a real town player (you care for the right thing). To illustrate myself, I'll have to use an example. Let's say you have oranges and grapefruits in a bag and you can't see them. Now, let's say you want an orange. You'll put your hand on one, you'll take it out (closing your eyes) and you'll ask the guy holding the bag : "Is this an orange ?" because that's the orange you want However, you asked : "Is this an orange or a grapefruit ?" Someone wouldn't talk about the grapefruit at all... Now, let's reverse the words : "Is this a grapefruit or an orange ?" First, you would never ask about the grapefruit at all !
Hmmm nevermind, I don't have to keep going on my explanation, I just realized how dumb my logic was xD
I'm sorry to everybody for the confusion xDWell, at least, the fact that you wouldn't usually ask for town is still right ! Bolded part and your analogy that doesn't go anywhere looks pretty scummy to me. There's basically no goal, direction or reason behind this, but you still feel the need to share it with us. You apologize for the confusion, but good town play, in my book, is trying to AVIOD confusion. Confusion, gray shades and everything inbetween just give scum openings for misinterpretations.Please, in the bolded part you clearly showed that you have the theoretical ability to think your posts through, the only thing left is to actually do it. Alright sir, I need some explanation from yourself ... You tell me in that post that a good town player would avoid confusion (that's why I cut on what I say sometimes). Although, in a post before, you're telling me that I shouldn't be afraid to say what I think... Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 08:36 Dandel Ion wrote:
I'm saying you shouldn't hold back anything just because you're concerned how it'd reflect on you. You're not coherent in your sayings. (I know that I can be incoherent as well, but that's why I excuse myself and that I explain my thoughts) I made a mistake in my logic and I thought it would be great to assume that it's my fault and to explain it instead of just saying "nevermind, I made a mistake"... As I already said, you're not coherent in your sayings about what you want me to do and it makes you suspicious to my eyes. Next thing that bugs me is that I've been pressuring lvdr a bit and at some point, you just came to defend him ... =/ I'm currently under pressure by both lvdr and you and nobody comes to help me I'm suspicious about you two. I looked at all the posts of lvdr and not a single one refers to you (in the current game). I did the same with your posts and the only time I have a result where you're talking about lvdr, it's either because you use a quote from someone talking about lvdr or because you're defending him... There's nothing, whatsoever, in the game, where you interact with each other, yet you both seem to be teamed up against me right now... You didn't even suspected each other even if there's enough material to ask yourself some questions ... For these reasons, I want to say FOS both of you, but I don't know if I can do that according to the rules. But, you're both on the same level of suspicions.
What?
Please quote the part where I defend Lvdr. Because I'm pretty sure I didn't do that.
At this point, I'm almost convinced you INTENTIONALLY misunderstand what I'm writing.
You shouldn't hold back READS and CASES. You SHOULD think about what you're posting. What of this is hard to understand?
I don't get your "logic". Clarify please.
|
On August 10 2012 08:55 Hapahauli wrote:Un-Fos Lvdr and iamperfectionI'm pretty satisfied with Lvdr's activity and defense so far. In addition, he's going after lurkers (Sideni) and is actively defending himself. I see enough similarities with his town play from the aborted game to give him the benefit of the doubt. As for iamperfection, I think I'm falling victim to confirmation bias on him again. My case was based around his "going with the flow," and his questioning of Promethelax kinda destroys that bit of it. I'm satisfied enough with his activity to lay down my case. However, I do find two players very suspicious at the moment: FOS Axero and GoodKarmaBoth players have been pretty lurky so far; Axero with 2 posts and GK with 3. Furthermore, neither has contributed anything significant to the discussion. GoodKarma's three posts have only to do with disagreeing with the lurker policy. He hasn't done anything else while everyone in the town is actively discussing/throwing around suspicions. I find his lack of posting very unsettling. Axero has two posts, one fluff/introductory post, and another that idly points suspicion: Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 14:22 Axero wrote:
That doesn't mean Hapa is a townie. Scum know who eachother are, therefore Hapa could know your alignment and could be setting you up to get lynched. It's a good way to shift focus to someone else while also seeming like a townie.
It is also possible that they are both scum. Setting someone up as a sacrifice to ensure everyone views the other as a townie would seem like a very effective strategy.
Just my two cents.
(Post made from mobile so apologies for lack of quotes) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=24#478As I pointed out in the link above, his ideas are fairly illogical, and it reads to me like a useless-post designed only to point suspicion.
FOS Hapa
I've actually been pretty busy since the game started, but no I haven't made many posts. I'm sorting out my feelings on people and as this is my first game it's taking me some time to get used to it. However you are very quick to point to several people. The feeling I'm getting from you is that you're only being active to avoid suspicion. Seems like you're over doing it a little bit. Might be a snap reaction but it is how I feel at this point in the game.
|
On August 10 2012 09:28 Axero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 08:55 Hapahauli wrote:Un-Fos Lvdr and iamperfectionI'm pretty satisfied with Lvdr's activity and defense so far. In addition, he's going after lurkers (Sideni) and is actively defending himself. I see enough similarities with his town play from the aborted game to give him the benefit of the doubt. As for iamperfection, I think I'm falling victim to confirmation bias on him again. My case was based around his "going with the flow," and his questioning of Promethelax kinda destroys that bit of it. I'm satisfied enough with his activity to lay down my case. However, I do find two players very suspicious at the moment: FOS Axero and GoodKarmaBoth players have been pretty lurky so far; Axero with 2 posts and GK with 3. Furthermore, neither has contributed anything significant to the discussion. GoodKarma's three posts have only to do with disagreeing with the lurker policy. He hasn't done anything else while everyone in the town is actively discussing/throwing around suspicions. I find his lack of posting very unsettling. Axero has two posts, one fluff/introductory post, and another that idly points suspicion: On August 09 2012 14:22 Axero wrote:
That doesn't mean Hapa is a townie. Scum know who eachother are, therefore Hapa could know your alignment and could be setting you up to get lynched. It's a good way to shift focus to someone else while also seeming like a townie.
It is also possible that they are both scum. Setting someone up as a sacrifice to ensure everyone views the other as a townie would seem like a very effective strategy.
Just my two cents.
(Post made from mobile so apologies for lack of quotes) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=24#478As I pointed out in the link above, his ideas are fairly illogical, and it reads to me like a useless-post designed only to point suspicion. FOS HapaI've actually been pretty busy since the game started, but no I haven't made many posts. I'm sorting out my feelings on people and as this is my first game it's taking me some time to get used to it. However you are very quick to point to several people. The feeling I'm getting from you is that you're only being active to avoid suspicion. Seems like you're over doing it a little bit. Might be a snap reaction but it is how I feel at this point in the game.
So I'm suspicious because I'm... not acting suspicious? I wish I could reply to your suspicions, but they're largely based on your gut feelings.
You're also rather quick to respond after lurking for so long the second I call you out. Care to reply to my suspicions against you? Why have you been lurking? Also, I want some answers to my questions in this post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=24#478
|
@everyone: I'm going to try to use the spoiler tag to hide my fluffy first-timer sidenotes :-)... Hopefully that will limit your reading load!
@Hapahauli
I'm honestly surprised by your Un-FOS's. I'm willing to concede temporary agreement on the Axero posts, but I honestly hope this is just an attempt to smoke the quiet people out of the bushes.
lvdr's defense to me just strike as more of the same. Two brief moments of sanity (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=26#503,
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=26#) and then jumping back into confusing or circadian logic. There is one little gotcha moment from lvdr though that I jsut found courtesy of the filter function.
+ Show Spoiler +(what a cool function!! damn that's useful)
As follows (bold and underline for emphasis):
On August 10 2012 06:51 Lvdr wrote:
I find this passage by Sideni somewhat scummy. Sideni claims a weak command of english multiple times, but is still comfortable bandwagoning mkfuba's argument with a semantic argument. As i said last game, scum hate making their own cases, and Sideni's is pretty fluffy.
FOS Sideni
But later you claim:
On August 10 2012 07:59 Lvdr wrote:
I wasn't accusing Sideni of bandwaggoning. Agreeing with mkfuba's case is not what I found suspicious. The fact that it is directed against me is irrelevant.
It was the additional case Sideni provided. How does changing the order in any way change whether there was a scum tell or not? Whether I happened to say town or mafia first I think the suspicion would have been similar. Therefore, Sideni's addition reads as quite fluffy to me.
I understand getting hot under the collar when stuff is leveled against you and then wanting to claim the moral high-road after the fact, but you did accuse him of band-wagoning. I tend to agree with you that his logic wasn't incredibly well thought-out. At least he did retract the analogy that made me want to smash some oranges and grapefruits  (referring to: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=27#526)
|
Since the game started and I didn't know I'd be in it I had previous plans. I've been checking the thread and still trying to feel people out, but since nothing really had anything to do with me personally, I haven't replied. (Not the best play, but again, first game )
As for your first criticism, those two statements I made were my response to YH, not actual suspicions against you, kind of just possibilities. But yes, at this point, it is my gut reaction to your actions.
In the middle of a game of DotA atm, so I'm sure this didn't answer everything you wanted. I'll respond in a bit.
|
On August 10 2012 09:44 Axero wrote:Since the game started and I didn't know I'd be in it I had previous plans. I've been checking the thread and still trying to feel people out, but since nothing really had anything to do with me personally, I haven't replied. (Not the best play, but again, first game )
So let me get this straight - your strategy going in to this game was to lurk until your name was mentioned, then FOS the guy who called you out for lurking?
As for your first criticism, those two statements I made were my response to YH, not actual suspicions against you, kind of just possibilities. But yes, at this point, it is my gut reaction to your actions.
In the middle of a game of DotA atm, so I'm sure this didn't answer everything you wanted. I'll respond in a bit.
Well hearing your "strategy" - you better have some damn good explanations for your play so far.
|
On August 10 2012 09:19 Sideni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 08:47 Dandel Ion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 10 2012 08:28 Sideni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 07:59 Lvdr wrote:
How does changing the order in any way change whether there was a scum tell or not? Whether I happened to say town or mafia first I think the suspicion would have been similar. Therefore, Sideni's addition reads as quite fluffy to me.
Oh, I thought it was obvious, so I guess I skipped on that point ... =/ Well, first, if you only say "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" you look like a real town player (you care for the right thing). To illustrate myself, I'll have to use an example. Let's say you have oranges and grapefruits in a bag and you can't see them. Now, let's say you want an orange. You'll put your hand on one, you'll take it out (closing your eyes) and you'll ask the guy holding the bag : "Is this an orange ?" because that's the orange you want However, you asked : "Is this an orange or a grapefruit ?" Someone wouldn't talk about the grapefruit at all... Now, let's reverse the words : "Is this a grapefruit or an orange ?" First, you would never ask about the grapefruit at all !
Hmmm nevermind, I don't have to keep going on my explanation, I just realized how dumb my logic was xD
I'm sorry to everybody for the confusion xDWell, at least, the fact that you wouldn't usually ask for town is still right ! Bolded part and your analogy that doesn't go anywhere looks pretty scummy to me. There's basically no goal, direction or reason behind this, but you still feel the need to share it with us. You apologize for the confusion, but good town play, in my book, is trying to AVIOD confusion. Confusion, gray shades and everything inbetween just give scum openings for misinterpretations.Please, in the bolded part you clearly showed that you have the theoretical ability to think your posts through, the only thing left is to actually do it. Alright sir, I need some explanation from yourself ... You tell me in that post that a good town player would avoid confusion (that's why I cut on what I say sometimes). Although, in a post before, you're telling me that I shouldn't be afraid to say what I think... Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 08:36 Dandel Ion wrote:
I'm saying you shouldn't hold back anything just because you're concerned how it'd reflect on you. You're not coherent in your sayings. (I know that I can be incoherent as well, but that's why I excuse myself and that I explain my thoughts) I made a mistake in my logic and I thought it would be great to assume that it's my fault and to explain it instead of just saying "nevermind, I made a mistake"... As I already said, you're not coherent in your sayings about what you want me to do and it makes you suspicious to my eyes.
@Sideni
I think he's trying to say don't be afraid to respond cogently before quickly. If you find yourself knee deep into an analogy that is going nowhere and it occupied 45min to an hour of your time, I'd be totally fine with you stymying the retort bandwagon by throwing down a quick post "Responding to X's post on such-and-such but it's taking some time... please stand by." That's more valuable to me than having to read a post you've already 85% redacted or nullified.
@Dandel am I clear in understanding your statement?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
