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On November 16 2011 01:19 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 01:15 Nisani201 wrote:On November 15 2011 20:44 Forumite wrote:/confirm On November 15 2011 16:12 LSB wrote:On November 15 2011 15:49 DCLXVI wrote:damn I forgot people post while I'm in the middle of writing posts... ugh On November 15 2011 14:55 LSB wrote:On November 15 2011 14:19 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:On November 15 2011 12:55 LSB wrote:
come to think about it, that does seem like a nice icebreaker. So everyone! How about lets talk about how you think mafia should be played, the importance of blues, what should we do with lurkers, and what majority lynch means. LAL?For your point on LAL, unless I have misread the OP, we only know what abilities are possible, not which are actually in the game, how they may have been combined into roles, nor how many of the role there may be. So, unless we have a cop of some variety, I don't know how you intend to find liars in this game. So were you just stating that as a general "in mafia games" rule, or did you have something in mind for this game in particular? I'd be interested in hearing how you intend to determine the liars given the setup. Lying will come up and you will be able to recognize it. The most prominent example is fake claims. So LAL means no fake claims. + Show Spoiler +Or it means don't get caught lying. Kenpachi's green claim would be an example of a potentially acceptable lie (if he is blue) as this early in the game any claims are meaningless So what is your position on Kenpachi claiming townie? At first you say LAL, but then lying can be acceptable in certain situations, such as kenpachi is blue. Then you say that his claim is meaningless as it is too early in the game. Does that make his post spam/intentionally distracting? Surely he is a good enough player to realize the importance of his claim. Can you explain your opinions on the subject rather than just post vague generalizations. Is kenpachi's claim worth analyzing/what does it mean? Wtf does this mean? Are you saying you are taking Kenpachi seriously? Stop talking hypotheticals, iirc you've played with Kenpachi before. Even if you have not you can go through his posts and figure out how he plays. In addition you've played before so you know how TL mafia is in the first few hours. I honestly don't see how I´m going to step in here. DCLXVI allready caught this and posted before me, but I don´t think my reason for noticing has been discussed. Okay, to me it looks like this; LSB wants us to Lynch All Liars. Kenpachi claimed Townie, but LSB doesn´t want us to take the Kenpachi claim seriously. My problem here is that either Kenpachi lied, or he just told Scum not to nightkill him, because it would be no use. If we are going to go by the LAL policy, then either Kenpachi lied or acted Pro-Scum, so why should we back off? Kenpachi does this every game, then we can ignore his claim, but what I don´t agree with is LSB promoting LAL wanting to ignore the claim, even if it is meta. It took him about 5 posts to go back on his own policy of Lynch All Liars. If Kenpachi lied (or play Pro-Scum), why does LSB then defend him after his first policy post? FoS LSBAs for lynching 1-2 lurkers and 1-2 scum, sounds reasonable, I think we should stay at about that number for now. We need to be carefull about lynching, not just because of the consequences in the setup, but if we find 5 players who seem connected, then it´s better to lynch 1-2 and see if they are scum, than lynching all 5 at once and kill 5 innocent townies at once. Ummm... what? I'm sure you know this. Kenpachi's townie claim means nothing. It never means anything. He does it every single game. LSB ignoring it does not imply contradiction; it implies common sense. And your FoS on him is incredibly scummy. FURTHERMORE, claiming town is not pro-scum, because it is in everyone's best interest to appear as a vanilla towie. Townies want to look green because they are green. Blues want to look green so that they are not a Mafia target. And Mafia wants to look green (most of the time) because they don't want to get lynched. "most of the time"? Care to explain to a newbie when would a mafia NOT want to appear green? 
When they want to appear blue? Or I suppose if they suspect the town has some sort of traitor role/they could win with third party by straight up claiming.
On November 15 2011 20:00 prplhz wrote:If any of you bothered to read my posts I never said that people should lie their asses off, on the contrary. I said that lynch-all-liars can be bad and it would have been in TMMM because GMarshal was a lying town. He shouldn't have lied, but two wrongs doesn't make a right and lying isn't damning evidence by itself. sandroba made the right call in not lynching GMarshal 'cause at the end of the day, this is a game about lynching scum, not about lynching liars. Don't lie and don't hide behind policies instead of contributing with your opinion. Also, I jumped on the 0-person bandwagon? Rofl. I liked your post Cyber_Cheese even though I thought it was weird that you didn't vote in it, but that new post of yours was all shit. Sorry. Hiroruby says he supports a strict lynch-all-lurkers policy right here: Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:43 Hiroruby wrote:
Lurkers: should be killed, and that should be made clear right away. If you know you will die if you lurk, then you will not lurk unless you are mafia, and that should just get you killed. Lurking helps no one, gives nothing to either validate or disprove a person, just leaves a cloud of ambiguity and distrust. Lurkers simply must die as they are either town that are usless, thus hurting us, or are mafia.
He says that even if lurkers are town, they should get lynched. I mean come on.
He didn't lie in his post, nor promote tolerance for townies that do lie, and the question he answered could have been misinterpreted. That is why you have my vote and he only has a FoS.
Whats with all the Vanilla Townie claims? Unless you want to claim something *other* than Vanilla Townie, you shouldn't be claiming.
On November 04 2011 11:44 Zona wrote:
Furthermore, there may be dangers in store for town players who claim their role.
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Oh, I also wanted to say, the LAL argument is one of my favorites. Because arguing it defeats the purpose of LAL.
Here's a pro-tip. We lynch all liars, always, and every fucking time. No exceptions.
If someone disagrees he's probably not thinking hard enough, and should re-think before he opens his mouth to spout more bullshit. Or he's scum.
Think before you talk.
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People need to be more nuanced with applying LaL...
Lynch All Liars is a longstanding mantra in the mafiascum.net community. Quite simply, most Townies have no reason to lie about their actions, motivations, or roles. Many newish Townies will attempt to lie in attempts to gambit, and fail miserably by hurting the Town in the process. These lies can be indistinguishable from deliberate scum gambits, and leaving them unpunished reinforces the behavior as a viable option for scum.
For example, Vanilla Townies who try to roleclaim Doctor in an attempt to draw the Mafia's Night-kill tend to cause the real Doctor to counterclaim them, thus definitely causing the Mafia to target them. In addition to this, scum have been known to deliberately fakeclaim Doctor with the express purpose of drawing a counterclaim for this reason. The lynch of the Vanilla Townie is then justified.
Generally, gambits are not successful. If they were, they would probably be on this wiki or otherwise public knowledge. Thus, rather than wind up on the receiving end of Lynch All Liars, it is best not to try to gambit unless you fully understand the implications of your actions. This comes primarily with experience.
The act of lying as a townie itself is not negative for town if the townie doing it has weighed all negatives and positives of the situation and have found the lie to be favorable for town. It's only when a townie does the lying badly, as is/was the case with GM -_- that it's bad for town.
I lied in XXIX, saying I was a DT instead of what I actually was, a vet. I said I checked someone and they came out to be red. We lynched them last minute and they flipped red. That was a good lie. Had he flipped townie (doubtful), a vigi would have shot me and while that would have wasted not only one of my nightlifes but also a vigi shot, I would have been confirmed. win-win.
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Here's a pro-tip. We lynch all liars, always, and every fucking time. No exceptions.
Really? Cause I'm pretty sure in XLIV had tons of people fake claiming and not one of them was lynched =P
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On November 16 2011 01:56 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Here's a pro-tip. We lynch all liars, always, and every fucking time. No exceptions. Really? Cause I'm pretty sure in XLIV had tons of people fake claiming and not one of them was lynched =P
And look at how that game turned out.
LAL is in effect, stop discussing it, we're murdering the fuck out of any asshole with a plan that involves lying for some probably dumb-as-shit reason.
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I agree about lynching liars, but if we're lynching lurkers because they're not active just doesn't seem to be a good way to go about this. If some one proposes we lynch a lurker, I'm not voting.
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Nisani, in both your relevant posts of the game, you have given very neutral coments, and they both serve to give the mafia an "out." bolded are the examples.
On November 16 2011 01:22 Nisani201 wrote:
FURTHERMORE, claiming town is not pro-scum, because it is in everyone's best interest to appear as a vanilla towie. Townies want to look green because they are green. Blues want to look green so that they are not a Mafia target. And Mafia wants to look green (most of the time) because they don't want to get lynched.
and
On November 16 2011 01:22 Nisani201 wrote:
Sometimes Mafia has to fakeclaim a blue role as a last resort to escape a lynch.
To me this seems really odd. Care to elaborate on your reasons for posting these?
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
/confirm
only had a quick glance the game so far but I agree with LaL and will catch up fairly quickly
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On November 16 2011 01:59 Sabin010 wrote:
I agree about lynching liars, but if we're lynching lurkers because they're not active just doesn't seem to be a good way to go about this. If some one proposes we lynch a lurker, I'm not voting.
So you are basically saying : " hey mafia, go lurk and stop posting and you'll be safe from me". I hope you understand how this is suspicious.
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On November 16 2011 02:10 GreYMisT wrote:Nisani, in both your relevant posts of the game, you have given very neutral coments, and they both serve to give the mafia an "out." bolded are the examples. Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 01:22 Nisani201 wrote:
FURTHERMORE, claiming town is not pro-scum, because it is in everyone's best interest to appear as a vanilla towie. Townies want to look green because they are green. Blues want to look green so that they are not a Mafia target. And Mafia wants to look green (most of the time) because they don't want to get lynched.
and Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 01:22 Nisani201 wrote:
Sometimes Mafia has to fakeclaim a blue role as a last resort to escape a lynch. To me this seems really odd. Care to elaborate on your reasons for posting these?
I was simply responding to what some people were saying.
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Next person that mentions LAL is getting a vote placed on them. Seriously enough with the useless shit.
We will be lynching however many scummy people we can find on the particular day. We are restricting ourselves when we don't have a clue as to what our boundaries are.
Nisani has posted complete fluff and none of it shows any effort in actually heling town. I don't think the new people are brain-dead, so unless the specifically ask about something, don't use them as an excuse to post asinine shit.
Oh, hi kibbibit 
##Vote Nisani201
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Please stop claiming. I don't care if you're being serious or not, but I think it is extremely unnecessary at this point.
In regards to liars and lurkers: I've always liked to lynch both as typically it teaches people not to lie or to lurk (less so with the lurking). Lurking makes people hard to read, which has a tendency to piss me off and lying is a pain in the ass because how do we know that's the only thing said person has lied about?
More later. Classtime now.
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Dammit Bum....
I didn't see your post before I posted.
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On November 16 2011 02:25 Tyrran wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 01:59 Sabin010 wrote:
I agree about lynching liars, but if we're lynching lurkers because they're not active just doesn't seem to be a good way to go about this. If some one proposes we lynch a lurker, I'm not voting. So you are basically saying : " hey mafia, go lurk and stop posting and you'll be safe from me". I hope you understand how this is suspicious.
Gotta agree with Tyrran here. Lurkers are bad for townies. That said, I don't want to just go on "lynch ALL the lurkers!" mode, but at least lynching one or two a day should make them stay in high alert.
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On November 16 2011 02:32 bumatlarge wrote:Next person that mentions LAL is getting a vote placed on them. Seriously enough with the useless shit. We will be lynching however many scummy people we can find on the particular day. We are restricting ourselves when we don't have a clue as to what our boundaries are. Nisani has posted complete fluff and none of it shows any effort in actually heling town. I don't think the new people are brain-dead, so unless the specifically ask about something, don't use them as an excuse to post asinine shit. Oh, hi kibbibit ##Vote Nisani201
LAL LAL LAL LAL
##Vote: Forumite
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On November 16 2011 02:32 bumatlarge wrote:Next person that mentions LAL is getting a vote placed on them. Seriously enough with the useless shit. We will be lynching however many scummy people we can find on the particular day. We are restricting ourselves when we don't have a clue as to what our boundaries are. Nisani has posted complete fluff and none of it shows any effort in actually heling town. I don't think the new people are brain-dead, so unless the specifically ask about something, don't use them as an excuse to post asinine shit. Oh, hi kibbibit ##Vote Nisani201
I cannot tell if you are scum or just plain stupid. I make about a few posts and you accuse me of "useless fluff"?
FoS on you for creating an anti-town atmosphere. None of what I said was useless fluff.
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On November 16 2011 02:42 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:32 bumatlarge wrote:Next person that mentions LAL is getting a vote placed on them. Seriously enough with the useless shit. We will be lynching however many scummy people we can find on the particular day. We are restricting ourselves when we don't have a clue as to what our boundaries are. Nisani has posted complete fluff and none of it shows any effort in actually heling town. I don't think the new people are brain-dead, so unless the specifically ask about something, don't use them as an excuse to post asinine shit. Oh, hi kibbibit ##Vote Nisani201 LAL LAL LAL LAL ##Vote: Forumite
I think the time for troll voting is over...
From the OP:
You may include multiple votes and unvotes in the same post. However, do refrain from both voting and unvoting the same person in a single post. It is possible that some role abilities are tied to the votes that are cast, so be mindful as to how you exercise your vote.
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On November 16 2011 02:55 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:42 chaoser wrote:On November 16 2011 02:32 bumatlarge wrote:Next person that mentions LAL is getting a vote placed on them. Seriously enough with the useless shit. We will be lynching however many scummy people we can find on the particular day. We are restricting ourselves when we don't have a clue as to what our boundaries are. Nisani has posted complete fluff and none of it shows any effort in actually heling town. I don't think the new people are brain-dead, so unless the specifically ask about something, don't use them as an excuse to post asinine shit. Oh, hi kibbibit ##Vote Nisani201 LAL LAL LAL LAL ##Vote: Forumite I think the time for troll voting is over... From the OP: Show nested quote +You may include multiple votes and unvotes in the same post. However, do refrain from both voting and unvoting the same person in a single post. It is possible that some role abilities are tied to the votes that are cast, so be mindful as to how you exercise your vote.
Who said I was trolling?
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On November 16 2011 02:58 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:55 GreYMisT wrote:On November 16 2011 02:42 chaoser wrote:On November 16 2011 02:32 bumatlarge wrote:Next person that mentions LAL is getting a vote placed on them. Seriously enough with the useless shit. We will be lynching however many scummy people we can find on the particular day. We are restricting ourselves when we don't have a clue as to what our boundaries are. Nisani has posted complete fluff and none of it shows any effort in actually heling town. I don't think the new people are brain-dead, so unless the specifically ask about something, don't use them as an excuse to post asinine shit. Oh, hi kibbibit ##Vote Nisani201 LAL LAL LAL LAL ##Vote: Forumite I think the time for troll voting is over... From the OP: You may include multiple votes and unvotes in the same post. However, do refrain from both voting and unvoting the same person in a single post. It is possible that some role abilities are tied to the votes that are cast, so be mindful as to how you exercise your vote. Who said I was trolling?
Oh, well then care to provide reasons? I'm afraid i dont speak LAL code.
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On November 16 2011 02:37 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:25 Tyrran wrote:On November 16 2011 01:59 Sabin010 wrote:
I agree about lynching liars, but if we're lynching lurkers because they're not active just doesn't seem to be a good way to go about this. If some one proposes we lynch a lurker, I'm not voting. So you are basically saying : " hey mafia, go lurk and stop posting and you'll be safe from me". I hope you understand how this is suspicious. Gotta agree with Tyrran here. Lurkers are bad for townies. That said, I don't want to just go on "lynch ALL the lurkers!" mode, but at least lynching one or two a day should make them stay in high alert.
You know I never thought about it like that.
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EPT
