EPT[TSL] Tarson Penalized For Leaking Results - Page 8
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NiGoL
1868 Posts
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PiePie
United States248 Posts
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AtomicReaction
Canada57 Posts
On February 12 2010 09:47 NiGoL wrote: I think teamliquid deserves the money since its a pretty god damn site for everyone of us, why not take the money to get this site even better? Well giving it to charity is never bad, but i would like it to go to the teamliquid site. They already said why. They don't want even the slightest hint of Tournament Organizer corruption scandals getting tossed around. If they took the money and used it, people could argue they only did that penalty to turn a buck. If they give it to charity, then no one can argue they did it for their own benefit. Although... Tax deductions? Oh no! | ||
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Jugan
United States1566 Posts
On February 10 2010 15:02 Red_Storm wrote: Lets face it, Nony told everyone he would 3-0 BEFORE the match! He has a point. Everyone knew it was coming =/ | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9110 Posts
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On February 10 2010 23:53 rushz0rz wrote: Read the post entirely. A fair punishment, in my eyes. TL was very professional about it all. I read it. People who get good at other games can earn hundreds of thousands of dollars in tournaments. When I was 14 year old and I made a couple thousands dollars playing counter strike in a team which was half decent. People who get good at SC can't make much on the foreigner scene. Many people in the TSL are exceptional players who may never earn a single dollar from their Starcraft skills ever again. Bad dice. Should have played a simpleton's game! To further lower the amount of money handed out to our fellow SC players is just ridiculous. It's just $125, I don't care much for the money - and I don't care much about spoilers on a polish website. I understand the punishment but I don't support it in any way whatsoever - not that my opinion matters. It just makes me sad that - you know - that's all... Guess a 11 year old game is bound to have a fairly small influence and all. | ||
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AtomicReaction
Canada57 Posts
On February 12 2010 10:34 Djzapz wrote: I read it. People who get good at other games can earn hundreds of thousands of dollars in tournaments. When I was 14 year old and I made a couple thousands dollars playing counter strike in a team which was half decent. People who get good at SC can't make much on the foreigner scene. Many people in the TSL are exceptional players who may never earn a single dollar from their Starcraft skills ever again. Bad dice. Should have played a simpleton's game! To further lower the amount of money handed out to our fellow SC players is just ridiculous. It's just $125, I don't care much for the money - and I don't care much about spoilers on a polish website. I understand the punishment but I don't support it in any way whatsoever - not that my opinion matters. It just makes me sad that - you know - that's all... Guess a 11 year old game is bound to have a fairly small influence and all. You make a good point about people not making as much money in this scene, but that's why I think this a -good- decision. TL is trying to make the scene more respectable by treating it as a professionally run tourney. They are taking decisions like this seriously, and have shown multiple times throughout that it isn't just some LAN party. This decision is good in that they have come up front with it, and came up with a punishment that is suitable. If they just brush this kind of stuff off, no one would ever take it as a serious event. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
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KiLL_ORdeR
United States1518 Posts
It's not about the money, it's about the act, and I think the fact that Tarson acknowledged his mistake and is owning up to it is quite admirable. $125 dollars is not that much in the grand scheme of things, and I think he should be greatful that he isn't going to be banned from sites/future events, especially with SC2 right around the corner, which i am sure he will try to make money in. Good job TL and good job Tarson for being a man about the whole situation. | ||
p4NDemik
United States13896 Posts
On February 12 2010 10:34 Djzapz wrote: I read it. People who get good at other games can earn hundreds of thousands of dollars in tournaments. When I was 14 year old and I made a couple thousands dollars playing counter strike in a team which was half decent. People who get good at SC can't make much on the foreigner scene. Many people in the TSL are exceptional players who may never earn a single dollar from their Starcraft skills ever again. Bad dice. Should have played a simpleton's game! To further lower the amount of money handed out to our fellow SC players is just ridiculous. It's just $125, I don't care much for the money - and I don't care much about spoilers on a polish website. I understand the punishment but I don't support it in any way whatsoever - not that my opinion matters. It just makes me sad that - you know - that's all... Guess a 11 year old game is bound to have a fairly small influence and all. If you want to look at it that way then just consider future sponsors and future opportunities. If proper action like this isn't taken then TSL's reputation as a well run event could be damaged, hurting the chances that there may be more of them in the future and more money flowing into the scene as a whole. Tarson has to have some sort of penalty now if we want to maintain our integrity and give him and other players an opportunity to win more money in future tournaments. In the short term yeah your argument may hold, but in the long term its just faulty logic. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
Sure there should be a penalty - maybe just a warning since, in my eyes, this is a minor (MINOR) offense - and a first one. In my eyes, Tarson's punishment (or warning) shouldn't have anything to do with the tiny little bit of money he managed to get after he pulled through hundreds of hours of practice and stressful games. $125.... I think TL's as lucky to have Tarson as Tarson's lucky to have TL. | ||
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Gnabgib
United States381 Posts
On February 12 2010 11:43 Djzapz wrote: In my eyes, Tarson's punishment (or warning) shouldn't have anything to do with the tiny little bit of money he managed to get after he pulled through hundreds of hours of practice and stressful games. $125.... I think TL's as lucky to have Tarson as Tarson's lucky to have TL. How would you punish Tarson? | ||
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TT1
Canada10102 Posts
On February 12 2010 11:43 Djzapz wrote: I'm merely saying that removing money from SC player's hands after they won it is wrong unless they cheated. Sure there should be a penalty - maybe just a warning since, in my eyes, this is a minor (MINOR) offense - and a first one. In my eyes, Tarson's punishment (or warning) shouldn't have anything to do with the tiny little bit of money he managed to get after he pulled through hundreds of hours of practice and stressful games. $125.... I think TL's as lucky to have Tarson as Tarson's lucky to have TL. well they do warn us beforehand about the rules so.. if they didnt tell the players anything and then punished them then there could have been an argument made but everyone knew the rules | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On February 12 2010 09:52 PiePie wrote: TL wants to show that there is absolutely zero possible way they are trying to be "dirty" with the money. By giving the money to charity, they can show that their decision to take away his prize money was based solely on his behavior and not TL wanting to take it for themselves. This. Excellent decision. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
TL could have just announced that what Tarson did was unacceptable given the circumstances. It's easy enough to say Tarson handled it properly after the fact and it's a first offense, so no direct actions will be taken but the next time anybody spoils a game, measures will be taken. This would show other players that even if you post in an obscure forum and you make a point not to be literal about your results, you can still get in trouble. You may say I'm mellow but from my perspective this is a small offense, and Tarson doesn't deserve to be punished like that. It seems to me like it's vindictive for no actual reason. I understand the need to set examples from time to time - and while this will work, there are better, softer ways to handle this particular case. In the end, the TSL will grant $125 less to people who deserve that money. | ||
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towel
Sweden156 Posts
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randombum
United States2378 Posts
On February 12 2010 12:56 Djzapz wrote: TL could have just announced that what Tarson did was unacceptable given the circumstances. It's easy enough to say Tarson handled it properly after the fact and it's a first offense, so no direct actions will be taken but the next time anybody spoils a game, measures will be taken. This would show other players that even if you post in an obscure forum and you make a point not to be literal about your results, you can still get in trouble. You may say I'm mellow but from my perspective this is a small offense, and Tarson doesn't deserve to be punished like that. It seems to me like it's vindictive for no actual reason. I understand the need to set examples from time to time - and while this will work, there are better, softer ways to handle this particular case. In the end, the TSL will grant $125 less to people who deserve that money. I think you are placing spoiling the result on too low of a issue. Its a BIG deal. Majority of people watch to know who won and will continue on in the tournament, if they are told who won before the game is even aired they are far less likely to watch. Punishment was made clear to the players, but Tarson did it anyways. If they did not punish him, it would have less impact on the rest of the players, and could potentially lead to a even worse spoiler. If you saw somebody break a rule and get away with it, would that really send a warning to you? On the other hand, if you see somebody break the rule and get punished 50% would you really want to risk committing the same offense? TL would be justified in revoking the full 250, but like you said this is the first time and Tarson wasn't an asshole about it, so they didn't take all of it which they could have easily. I personally think its a completely fair decision that both sends a stern warning, and doesn't overly punish Tarson for the first public spoiler. | ||
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Gnabgib
United States381 Posts
On February 12 2010 12:56 Djzapz wrote: TL could have just announced that what Tarson did was unacceptable given the circumstances. It's easy enough to say Tarson handled it properly after the fact and it's a first offense, so no direct actions will be taken but the next time anybody spoils a game, measures will be taken. This would show other players that even if you post in an obscure forum and you make a point not to be literal about your results, you can still get in trouble. You may say I'm mellow but from my perspective this is a small offense, and Tarson doesn't deserve to be punished like that. It seems to me like it's vindictive for no actual reason. . Put yourself in pokerstrategy.com's shoes. You paid 10k in prizes (and god knows how much more in administrative fees) to sponsor the tournament FOR ADVERTISING. So you can have starcraft players hear "starcraft skills transfer to poker and you can learn at pokerstrategy.com". If player in the tournament violated his contract and potentially you've lost out on people watching the casts because they know the results. Had the spoiling been more widespread, and not punished, I wouldn't blame pokerstrategy.com if they tried to pull their sponsorship based on breech of contract. You can't have a tournament without players, and you can't get players without a prize pool, and you don't have a prize pool without sponsors. The sponsor's interests MUST be protected so that we can have tournaments like this in the future. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
I think a public warning using Tarson as an example with the clear notice that anything similar in the future would have actual consequences would be sufficient. This is how I function and it has worked for me so far on the small scale. Having experience in organizing groups of people for various types of "things", I have reasons to believe that starting off with a warning sends a clear message if done properly and you avoid the bitter taste of stealing the guy's cookie. If after all of this, you still need to punish the player because you don't quite perceive human psychology the way I do (and I study psychology), I'll repeat myself but I need to put an emphasis on this; SC players don't gain -nearly- enough money. Don't take the cash he earned over the course of 254 ladder games, 8 games in the qualifiers and 3 games against Nony. Now let's be stupidly conservative and say games averaged 10 minutes each (which is absurd). That's roughly 44 hours (+finding games,+wiping off tears of blood). Let's not even convert this to minimum wage. I realize that this argument doesn't hold much water but I really think that Tarson *WON* $250 no matter what. Punishment shouldn't take from him what he earned throughout TSL. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
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