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This thread is for discussing recent bans. Don't discuss other topics here. Take it to website feedback if you disagree with a ban or want to raise an issue. Keep it civil.NOTE: For those of you who want to find the actual ABL thread where the bans are posted. Please look in here: https://tl.net/forum/closed-threads/ |
On May 06 2011 14:31 AresHero wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 14:24 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
If this were a 2 week or perm ban, then people would have something to complain about. Given the circumstances and proximity (time wise) to the event, obviously he'll post in a more emotional state than normal. He didn't make post after post lambasting Cruncher. He made 1 post that, while insulting him, also encouraged people to drop the entire incident. Those circumstances, along with contributions, nets only a 2 day despite numerous past bans.
Whether or not you wholly agree with the ban doesn't even matter. It was deemed over the line and he only got 2 days. Sucks he might not stream because of it, but that's life.
This also shows how easy it is for people to get wrapped up and passionate about a meaningless event. This was IdrA streaming, and he might not for 2. whole. days. Just think about that in the grand scheme of things when you start flying off the handle. People are mad because he said on his stream he will be free to stream (while commentating b/c of the bet with JP) the rest of the week though Saturday. If it was just his normal streaming I don't think ppl would be all that upset... It is the fact that everyone is now missing out on 2 days of his stream with commentary. I personally can say that I have learned a ton while listening to the logic behind his play the past 2 days. It is kinda annoying that everyone will miss out on it for the next 2 just because of some silly comments on TL.
But what is so ironic is that he is the one preventing the streaming. There is nothing stopping him from continuing with the stream, instead he incites the "swarm" to seek revenge on TL.
mm Idra fanboys can be pretty Zergy when you think about it.
Don't be pissed with TL, they are just doing their job.
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Didnt Hot_Bid say he requested to be removed from the stream list?
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When users get perm banned, does that mean IP ban? or just the account?
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United States13896 Posts
On May 06 2011 14:47 skp wrote:
When users get perm banned, does that mean IP ban? or just the account?
Just the account. IP bans are not dished out lightly. Major repeat offenders only.
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I am hung up over the SFW pics thread. The only notes are no NSFW pictures and a pic in every post. But people also moderate it based on taste, which is contrary to its own purpose (good pics get caught in a moderation net of offensiveness). Also, since there's no note to avoid such images, it's underhanded to chastise people for posting what they logically concluded was appropriate content for the thread.
edit: 6666th reply
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United States22883 Posts
On May 06 2011 14:47 skp wrote:
When users get perm banned, does that mean IP ban? or just the account?
Usually just the account. We reserve IP bans for cases where the person is really malicious or annoying.
On May 06 2011 11:32 rdj107 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 10:53 Telcontar wrote:On May 06 2011 10:09 rdj107 wrote:On May 06 2011 09:27 Jibba wrote:On May 06 2011 09:18 Alou wrote:On May 06 2011 09:10 JBrown08 wrote:On May 06 2011 08:31 Telcontar wrote:
The kid's been hit with so many temp bans, he must be impervious to it by now. Sigh.... I wonder if he'll ever change or at least mature a little and learn to moderate what passes between his brain and his mouth. Here's to hoping I guess. You know, I kinda find that a funny sentiment (although I agree with the societal implications of such an act). Everyone when asked would probably agree that honesty is the best policy; but in reality we live in a society that punishes such actions. If I were to tell you something factual while leaving out my true meaning it would be called dishonest or "lying through omission". Yet here we are in a situation where most would agree that one should simply not be honest, and in fact "moderate" his true feelings. The life of a forum moderator is simple in that he only has to adhere to his own moral judgement of what is acceptable, while in fact the policies set out on any such forum are hard to actually place. It is easy to say "common sense" must rule; but in practice it is hard to enforce. While I might find in my Canadian sensibilities something not offensive, another mod from another background may; and I am obliged to present a unified front and agree with his actions. (See the fact that some people might find Jinro swearing in public interviews offensive, while he admits that is just his swedish background and they don't fret such things). So I can understand why Idra is banned so often here; there is a large variety of moderators from very different moral backgrounds that will in fact find pure honesty disrespectful or offensive. Funnily enough many societies find disrespect in and of itself offensive, so his forthright opinion of other players is actually gonna piss some mods off. Now of course, there is always the other option; he is just and ass and no one likes an ass. But I find the honesty and moderation angle intriguing. I think you're construing (edit - probably not the right word now that i reread this post, but it's final weeks and im going to turn that into my excuse for poor word choice) the concept of somewhat just saying whatever comes to mind (telecontar's post about IdrA) with being honest. There is a subtle difference between having this stream of conscious thought being spoken and being honest with what you say. But I agree that that angle of thought is intriguing though. Was the comment by IdrA on stream or in a post? I've heard it was on a stream and I'm not entirely sure I like the idea of streams being moderated in that sense, but then again I'm also not a mod so who cares. On May 06 2011 07:48 IdrA wrote:
of course he cheated, its a ladder game who cares.
stop giving him attention. hes a waste of life the more you talk about him the longer it takes for him to go away.
User was temp banned for this post. It's just the "waste of life" aspect. We wouldn't tolerate that from anyone. As for Cruncher, there's no way to actually prove he's cheating. If we could actually catch someone stream cheating, there would be some repercussions. Except your tl commandment page specifically mentions getting "verbally medieval" on someone as allowed when the situation warrants it. I would think the heavy implication of stream cheating/sniping to be exactly that kind of situation, especially given how enthused cruncher seems to be about bm'ing idra. Is there any particular reason why flaming someone for stream cheating him isn't justified in this instance? Because there is no actual evidence that Cruncher cheated. Getting an all-in hard countered isn't a proof of anything. It could just have been a coincidence or the result of something the viewers & IdrA didn't catch at the time. Even if there was concrete evidence that he was, calling someone 'a waste of life' shouldn't be acceptable. Apparently there's a deep significance to that phrase I'm missing. If he had said cruncher was a prick or whatever other use of profanity would that have been acceptable? According to tl's rules it would be as long as it was done in a humorous or creative fashion, which is why I'm confused. And no, of course there is no proof. Stream cheating is impossible to prove, which is why it was a big enough issue to prevent any large tournament from live streaming. However when you have someone like cruncher blind countering a build with odd timings, while also being in the stream at the time, while also having a history of pretty constant bm (including plug pulling games he loses) to idra, it's suspect enough that it's understandable that idra would just assume he was stream cheating. Given all that it's still not acceptable to voice disdain about someone in your own stream thread? If it isn't then the commandments thread is pretty much irrelevant to what the rules of tl are at best, and misleading at worst. If he had insulted his play or even had been involved in a discussion with him and insulted his knowledge, that would be one thing. I'm hard pressed to think of a situation where calling another community member a "waste of life" is appropriate on these forums. It's really not that difficult to see the chasm between "you don't know shit" and "you don't deserve to live."
If IdrA genuinely thinks Cruncher is up to no good, he could upload the replay somewhere and instantly have 10k people dissecting it for anything suspicious, crosschecking with times on the VOD and the things IdrA said/looked at.
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On May 06 2011 14:20 SonuvBob wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 13:49 L3g3nd_ wrote:
93 PMs wow. I dont see why people are so hurt about this, or do they think that his stream isnt on the TL tracker because of this? i guess no matter how much you post information, people are going to ask questions without reading a few posts above them, or trying to find an answer http://twitter.com/#!/idrajit/status/66276394849673216Show nested quote +wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you What are the odds that joe fanboy takes the time to realize a TL ban doesn't prevent Idra from streaming?
To be honest I would extend his ban for the entire week for that shit. He's essentially telling TL staff off and inciting all the trolls. Acting like a baby that had his toy taken away. Like you pointed out, you are not stopping him from streaming. If he cancels his week of commentary because of that, so be it. He will have proven just what kind of person he is.
I'm really tired of IdrA. I know he's a lot more important to this community than I will ever be but he always acts like a child in discussions I've seen him in, even when I agree with his point of view. I can't take this person seriously. I root against him solely for his behaviour even when I root for 99% of other Zergs over other races.
He also seems to collect the worse fans. I assume it's because younger and/or less mature people find his constant need for attention funny but to be honest I would not miss him if he was permanently banned from TL, even if I understand the reason this won't happen (unless something drastic happens). I truly think the moderators should consider it for all the drama his presence continues to needlessly cause in an otherwise pretty chill community (even the EG vs TL disagreement over the Masters Cup was more civil than 90% of IdrA's recent posts...and yes I'm aware he participated there as well).
I'll be frank, I'm not a Cruncher fan at all. I don't enjoy his play and he has a pretty bad attitude in my eyes as well. But that doesn't excuse IdrA's (and his legion of trolls) behaviour (referring to his post AND his tweet and the ensuing drama).
I hope I don't seem too aggressive in this post, but I hate to see a friendly community get so much hate from rabid haters over 1 person that, honestly, doesn't merit the effort despite his contributions to the community in the past.
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I love IdrA, but I also love Team Liquid, I understand that without moderation this place will devolve into 4chan faster than you can say "memeoverload." I'm willing to take a 2 day break from watching his stream to have a community as mature and productive as Team Liquid. So, in the midst of this shitstorm, I'd like to say thanks to Chill for being the martyr for the rest of the staff.
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On May 06 2011 14:52 oBlade wrote:
I am hung up over the SFW pics thread. The only notes are no NSFW pictures and a pic in every post. But people also moderate it based on taste, which is contrary to its own purpose (good pics get caught in a moderation net of offensiveness). Also, since there's no note to avoid such images, it's underhanded to chastise people for posting what they logically concluded was appropriate content for the thread.
edit: 6666th reply
Can you give an example? Unless you're arguing that racist/overly sexist pictures should be in the thread, I haven't seen what you mean.
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On May 06 2011 15:04 Sixotanaka wrote:
I love IdrA, but I also love Team Liquid, I understand that without moderation this place will devolve into 4chan faster than you can say "memeoverload." I'm willing to take a 2 day break from watching his stream to have a community as mature and productive as Team Liquid. So, in the midst of this shitstorm, I'd like to say thanks to Chill for being the martyr for the rest of the staff.
I fear the "mature and productive" TL is hiding at the moment. There are just way too many angry people out there. To be frank what TL may need is for people to become obsessed with some other game. I really feel that the people that will stay here are the ones who appreciate the community and I just don't get that from the angry ones.
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On May 06 2011 14:54 Jibba wrote:
Usually just the account. We reserve IP bans for cases where the person is really malicious or annoying.
I always knew you guys had a soft spot for me.
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I'm not going to get in to an argument or take sides.
When reading IdrA's comment I understood it as: "Do not waste your life feeding the troll" rather than actually calling CrunCher a waste of life. But this might just be me.
I do agree it was pretty bad formated, though if you check most of IdrA's posts you can see he does not often care about writing with proper grammar as well as other linguistic errors. Since the part about 'He's a waste of life' is in the same sentence as 'The more you talk about him, the longer it takes for him to go away'; I think it can be interpreted better if you interject 'life' with 'time', which is essentially the same thing.
On May 06 2011 07:48 IdrA wrote:
of course he cheated, its a ladder game who cares.
stop giving him attention. hes a waste of life the more you talk about him the longer it takes for him to go away.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Add a comma after "waste of life" and it is essentially as you read it.
Waste of life + More talk = longer to go away.
Don't see how other form of construing it doesn't have the same intent.
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On May 06 2011 16:40 Rosvall wrote:I'm not going to get in to an argument or take sides. When reading IdrA's comment I understood it as: "Do not waste your life feeding the troll" rather than actually calling CrunCher a waste of life. But this might just be me. I do agree it was pretty bad formated, though if you check most of IdrA's posts you can see he does not often care about writing with proper grammar as well as other linguistic errors. Since the part about 'He's a waste of life' is in the same sentence as 'The more you talk about him, the longer it takes for him to go away'; I think it can be interpreted better if you interject 'life' with 'time', which is essentially the same thing. Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 07:48 IdrA wrote:
of course he cheated, its a ladder game who cares.
stop giving him attention. hes a waste of life the more you talk about him the longer it takes for him to go away.
User was temp banned for this post.
Doesn't really matter. The comment is just giving hordes of stream watchers even more reason to cause shit. They were already causing shit. I see it more as adding fuel to the fire than actual content of the comment.
People are just so crazy currently. They seem to care more about image and their favourite player than the game. It's quite disgusting and this just shows it more. It's almost as if the majority of people that watch SC2 don't care about what happens in the game they just want drama or their player to win and if he/she doesn't they will cause drama.
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On May 06 2011 16:40 Rosvall wrote:I'm not going to get in to an argument or take sides. When reading IdrA's comment I understood it as: "Do not waste your life feeding the troll" rather than actually calling CrunCher a waste of life. But this might just be me. I do agree it was pretty bad formated, though if you check most of IdrA's posts you can see he does not often care about writing with proper grammar as well as other linguistic errors. Since the part about 'He's a waste of life' is in the same sentence as 'The more you talk about him, the longer it takes for him to go away'; I think it can be interpreted better if you interject 'life' with 'time', which is essentially the same thing. Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 07:48 IdrA wrote:
of course he cheated, its a ladder game who cares.
stop giving him attention. hes a waste of life the more you talk about him the longer it takes for him to go away.
User was temp banned for this post.
Reading it your way means that, with proper grammar, the sentence would read something like "hes a waste of life the more you talk about him. the longer it takes for him to go away", which leaves the second half dangling. I think it's pretty clear what IdrA meant, and that he was really pissed and posted in a fit of anger =/ The punishment seems fair to me.
re: the leniency of the punishment: one of the amazing things about tl is that a ton of big names have accounts here, and a number post fairly often. It gives tl a prestige and reputation for quality that no other foreign sc site can boast. To me, this means that a pro contributes significantly to tl merely by posting, making threads, and showing personality, just like any other user. The quality of the posts are important, too, of course, which is why IdrA has nearly 20 bans on his account. But in response to the people wondering why he hasn't yet been banned outright, it's because having these heavyweights around tl is a huge boon to the website, in addition to whatever productive content they may add in written form.
:edit: I'm not saying he (or any other name) should never be banned. And the number of bans on IdrA's accounts is really a lot o_o I'm just saying I can understand the mods' decision to stay with the temp bans for now.
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Well, IdrA not streaming for 2 days => i can catch up with his already broadcasted sessions. So actually thanks for the ban 
Also, good shot, saying something like this is not good for anyone, not even IdrA. If he phrased his sentence like above than it would actually mean "dont feed (give him attention) the troll (cruncher)", and thats an ok message, but not in that format.
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guys, give it up about idra's ban. hope you all know learn more about TL from this case - this is not 'another Sc2 forum on internet', this is TL's SC2 forum. TL mods are the absolute power here. if you are still confused, go here read random 10pages of the bans reasons, TL mods are very creative and extremely polite.
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I feel it's a good moment to quote this:
On November 04 2010 08:10 SonuvBob wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 22:14 deL wrote:
Have you ever refrained from banning someone who 100% deserved a serious ban (not just 2days / 1 week) just because they were a contributor / veteran / top player? Who? I think you're hinting at someone in particular, but Idrather not answer this.
<3 SonuvBob
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On May 06 2011 18:26 popzags wrote:I feel it's a good moment to quote this: Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 08:10 SonuvBob wrote:On November 03 2010 22:14 deL wrote:
Have you ever refrained from banning someone who 100% deserved a serious ban (not just 2days / 1 week) just because they were a contributor / veteran / top player? Who? I think you're hinting at someone in particular, but Idrather not answer this. <3 SonuvBob
hahaha tl mods are the best :D
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On May 06 2011 14:52 p4NDemik wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 14:47 skp wrote:
When users get perm banned, does that mean IP ban? or just the account? Just the account. IP bans are not dished out lightly. Major repeat offenders only.
which does not really do much, theres been plenty of retards who just use VPN's and continue trolling. i suspect theres at least 5 accounts that charliemurphy posts on. hahaha.
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EPT
