EPTDota 2 QQ thread - Page 844
| Forum Index > The Tavern |
Please remember that while this thread is for QQ and venting about the game, racism is not tolerated here on LD. | ||
|
hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
| ||
|
Darkren
Canada1841 Posts
On November 29 2013 07:25 hooahah wrote: Abandoned my first game in a while. Just absolute dogshit teammates, we were 0-12 after a few minutes. My mid DK had gone for the max-stun, vanguard-before-boots/bottle build, and I was a very brittle windrunner vs a fed Zeus, Sven, Lina. Yeah, no. Saved everyone the trouble and left. Fuck this game sometimes also I've done the math, and my chances of getting a rune if there's no rune ward is actually 0% (which usually happens when I'm mid because wards don't exist). Two games in a row where I got 0 runes in the first 10, 12 minutes. Took a guess, didn't get it, enemy mid went and took it when it spawned on the other side. Fuck this game sometimes Uve deffinetly played vs me mid  | ||
|
Coil1
128 Posts
| ||
|
Darkren
Canada1841 Posts
On November 28 2013 20:20 -Celestial- wrote: I think this is an instinctive reaction to the general pub mindset of "go go early 5 man" and "OMG STILL FARMING? COME FIGHT. ALL MID PUSH" and "if you didn't die in the fight when everyone else did thats a bad thing!" Having the strength of will to ignore it and instead make sure you win is pretty tough; not to mention if you DON'T follow those demands the team sometimes ends up just flat out AFKing or feeding "until you learn your lesson and come fight". Several times I've been on something like a Void and I'm 15 minutes in with Boots, Midas and Battlefury and starting to rack up a ton of gold. Then I get whined at for not coming and 5-manning with them ("OMG WHERE MOM FIRST?"). Or I've been on Spectre and I'm expected to 5 man at about 7-8 minutes when I've got boots and half a diffusal. Then, of course, you have the other games where they don't say anything but if you're not with your team they just feed horribly. Its all very aggrevating. On the flip side some of my most enjoyable games have been games where my team was sensible enough to know I can jump in occassionally but that I also need space and time to farm. Total crapshoot what kind of team you get. :-\ Yet if we look at this another way Say if your offlane or mid get ganked, having a tp as a carry and coming (even if your godam lv 4) can earn you more gold and experience that goofing on in lane. If you see your team pushing mid and that your doing a jungle camp at the side and then a fight breaks and your still at that stupid jungle camp for that 100 gold is not a good move. Active smokes can sometimes be very good even as a carry to try to force a teamfight take a tower and then go farm. Dota is a 5 man game, what i hate the most is people who just farm and not look at maps and dont respond to calls or anything. It doesnt matter if you come out at 45 min with 6 slots item, if that means that your 4 other player are lower level and more underfarmed and the other 5 have 2-3 items and levels. Also isnt it just more enjoyable to fight as a team non stop then farm for 20 min in a jungle, I watch the proscene and have generally been preaty good at games, but when people just afk farm i wonder why they do it, i mean we should try to play the best games we can but having a focus on team engamement and teamfight dynamics is way more important and fun that playing the I will get X number of gold more than you and I will then mathematically crush you. (especially considering you get matched with different people everygame) I think the afk farmers are just mechanically bad at the game, and want to squeeze out an item advantage to compensate. | ||
|
Jetaap
France4814 Posts
| ||
|
zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
IF I BUY HATS WILL U MAKE BETTER SERVERS?? | ||
|
Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo
Germany2959 Posts
In that game I was quite stacked, with 2 hearts later on. It just didn't help, when ember got his lategame items there was nothing to do against it. You just can't catch up with the guy. I can't think of a much more infuriating hero matchup I've experienced lately. | ||
|
idonthinksobro
3138 Posts
On November 30 2013 05:03 Darkren wrote: Yet if we look at this another way Say if your offlane or mid get ganked, having a tp as a carry and coming (even if your godam lv 4) can earn you more gold and experience that goofing on in lane. If you see your team pushing mid and that your doing a jungle camp at the side and then a fight breaks and your still at that stupid jungle camp for that 100 gold is not a good move. Active smokes can sometimes be very good even as a carry to try to force a teamfight take a tower and then go farm. Dota is a 5 man game, what i hate the most is people who just farm and not look at maps and dont respond to calls or anything. It doesnt matter if you come out at 45 min with 6 slots item, if that means that your 4 other player are lower level and more underfarmed and the other 5 have 2-3 items and levels. Also isnt it just more enjoyable to fight as a team non stop then farm for 20 min in a jungle, I watch the proscene and have generally been preaty good at games, but when people just afk farm i wonder why they do it, i mean we should try to play the best games we can but having a focus on team engamement and teamfight dynamics is way more important and fun that playing the I will get X number of gold more than you and I will then mathematically crush you. (especially considering you get matched with different people everygame) I think the afk farmers are just mechanically bad at the game, and want to squeeze out an item advantage to compensate. this is just wrong. If you are the carry your teams task is to keep the enemy at bay so you can farm up and win the game later, if you are an antimage, faceless void or something you can't help them untill you have at least 2-3 core items. If your team wants to take a 4v5 fight and they get crushed it is obviously not the fault of the person farming. Dota is 40 minutes farming and 5 minutes fighting - if you don't like that it is probably the wrong game for you. If you want to have fights all the time a hack n slay might be more fitting. Sure if i play bounty hunter i will be roaming a lot and try to get kills whenever i can, but bounty hunter is not a hard-carry. Roaming, ganking and being present on the whole map is just not what a carry does. The statement that players that want to get an advantage before they fight are mechanically bad is probably one of the dumbest "arguments" i had to read in my whole life. There is no reason to take disadvantageous or even fights if you know that avoiding a fight farming up and fighting later (especially if you have a midas and your opponents don't) is better, regardless of your individual skill. | ||
|
SnowfaLL
Canada730 Posts
On November 30 2013 07:39 idonthinksobro wrote: this is just wrong. If you are the carry your teams task is to keep the enemy at bay so you can farm up and win the game later, if you are an antimage, faceless void or something you can't help them untill you have at least 2-3 core items. If your team wants to take a 4v5 fight and they get crushed it is obviously not the fault of the person farming. Dota is 40 minutes farming and 5 minutes fighting - if you don't like that it is probably the wrong game for you. If you want to have fights all the time a hack n slay might be more fitting. Sure if i play bounty hunter i will be roaming a lot and try to get kills whenever i can, but bounty hunter is not a hard-carry. Roaming, ganking and being present on the whole map is just not what a carry does. The statement that players that want to get an advantage before they fight are mechanically bad is probably one of the dumbest "arguments" i had to read in my whole life. There is no reason to take disadvantageous or even fights if you know that avoiding a fight farming up and fighting later (especially if you have a midas and your opponents don't) is better, regardless of your individual skill. Disagree completely. The best teams in the world are the best teams in the world BECAUSE they understand the split of farming/fighting. Loda and XBOCT partake in fights very early in the game when it calls for it more than most carries, and that is why they are the best teams in the world. Even chinese teams, known for their passive farming style, will take opportune 5 man fights before 10 minutes if they need to. You have to adjust with the game, and sadly 90% of pub carries do not understand how that works. Antimage is a great hero at helping gain an edge early, because you can blink around and pick off scrambling heroes with your ult and get back to farming asap. Like the prev post said, it is so stupid when a fight breaks out literally 1 screen away from a jungling AM and he sits there to get that 100 gold instead of coming to help get his team that one hit on a hero that may make the difference between a team wipe one way or the other way. If I have to carry, I play spectre because spectre's ult means I can be farming and instantly join a teamfight, turn the battle and then TP back to farming asap. AFK farming ruins this game unless you have a specific 4+1 strat running (like LGD/iG do often.. but it doesnt work in pub games) I truly believe being a hard carry is the least skilled position in the game until the very lategame decision making (60+ mins). But 99% of pub games do not last to the lategame so I much rather effect the earlygame to gain a massive advantage rather than hope to survive to the lategame. Even in the pro scene, most games end before 45 minutes. It's all the result of good mid play and proper support play, the laning stage is the most important stage of the game especially in pubs where teams are not coordinated enough to survive past it. If you ever watch a stream of a pro player not stacking, the reason they always pick MID instead of 1 carry is because of this fact.. As a mid player, you control the flow of your team. As a hard carry, you are at the mercy of your teammates; and sadly thats why hard carries are the ones who rage a lot even though they literally contribute nothing to the earlygame and just afk farm and expect their team to win 4v5.. (lets face it, the absolute worst players are the ones who pick AM/void/PL/PA every game when you look at their played heroes list) Anyways, I suggest you go watch a few first person vods of a player like TC or XBOCT, and see how much map awareness they have. They are constantly aware of their teammates fights and if they need to help, they do. The days of never even checking the minimap as a hard carry is gone in the pro scene of any team that wants to make it far in TI4. | ||
|
Darkren
Canada1841 Posts
On November 30 2013 07:39 idonthinksobro wrote: this is just wrong. If you are the carry your teams task is to keep the enemy at bay so you can farm up and win the game later, if you are an antimage, faceless void or something you can't help them untill you have at least 2-3 core items. If your team wants to take a 4v5 fight and they get crushed it is obviously not the fault of the person farming. Dota is 40 minutes farming and 5 minutes fighting - if you don't like that it is probably the wrong game for you. If you want to have fights all the time a hack n slay might be more fitting. Sure if i play bounty hunter i will be roaming a lot and try to get kills whenever i can, but bounty hunter is not a hard-carry. Roaming, ganking and being present on the whole map is just not what a carry does. The statement that players that want to get an advantage before they fight are mechanically bad is probably one of the dumbest "arguments" i had to read in my whole life. There is no reason to take disadvantageous or even fights if you know that avoiding a fight farming up and fighting later (especially if you have a midas and your opponents don't) is better, regardless of your individual skill. What is your dota id so i can never play with you | ||
|
Staboteur
Canada1873 Posts
On November 30 2013 07:39 idonthinksobro wrote: this is just wrong. If you are the carry your teams task is to keep the enemy at bay so you can farm up and win the game later, if you are an antimage, faceless void or something you can't help them untill you have at least 2-3 core items. If your team wants to take a 4v5 fight and they get crushed it is obviously not the fault of the person farming. Dota is 40 minutes farming and 5 minutes fighting - if you don't like that it is probably the wrong game for you. If you want to have fights all the time a hack n slay might be more fitting.*** Sure if i play bounty hunter i will be roaming a lot and try to get kills whenever i can, but bounty hunter is not a hard-carry. Roaming, ganking and being present on the whole map is just not what a carry does. The statement that players that want to get an advantage before they fight are mechanically bad is probably one of the dumbest "arguments" i had to read in my whole life. There is no reason to take disadvantageous or even fights if you know that avoiding a fight farming up and fighting later (especially if you have a midas and your opponents don't) is better, regardless of your individual skill. The bolded segment is flat-out wrong. I'm trying to find an argument for it being sort of right, but unless you're appealing only to pro games that have both teams running super greedy strats, it just doesn't make sense. Dota, especially pub Dota, is full of skirmishes and battles throughout the play. I -guess- you could argue that you spend as much time posturing for a teamfight / gank as you do actually doing the ganking, but... Yeah. If we lived in a world where 4 protect 1 was actually a dominant strat, then 40 minutes farming 5 minutes fighting might be true. But we don't, so suggesting that it is the only way to Dota is pretty foolish, imo. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
The fighting carries with strong early teamfight participation and effectiveness have always been better pubstomp heroes (Na'ix was a fantastic pub hero even before the Rage buffs put him into competitive play). | ||
|
SnowfaLL
Canada730 Posts
It's also why people like EE completely throw off the chinese teams; they do not understand different philosophies of play until it smacks them in the face ala TI3 or MLG. This game is about adapting to change, but in the pub mm that is barely thought about. | ||
|
Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
Yeah, it's really annoying if they refuse to TP to defend or ignore a fight half a screen away, but it's equally frustrating when the team decides they need to push into superior teamfight and wipe repeatedly, and then rages at the ultra hard carry for not coming to feed as well. Even for earlier carries, the right choice is sometimes to farm it out and force the other team to attack your towers. We all know that. The point is that "OMG we need to end now!" syndrome is just as bad as an afk carry. | ||
|
SolarFlare93
Australia301 Posts
On November 30 2013 09:30 SnowfaLL wrote: the absolute worst thing about dota pub like that guy is people believe this game can only be played one way. Right now, you see EVERY 1 pos getting a midas, even if you are down 3 towers in the first 10 minutes, they still get a midas.. its ridiculous how people watch loda or dendi do something then think thats the ONLY way this game can be played.. Everytime I pick Mirana, I say "I'm support mirana" but people still expect me to be the 1 pos, just because thats the "metagame" right now.. It's frustrating how pigeon-holded the community is. It's also why people like EE completely throw off the chinese teams; they do not understand different philosophies of play until it smacks them in the face ala TI3 or MLG. This game is about adapting to change, but in the pub mm that is barely thought about. Midas here. Midas everywhere. Midas when ahead. Midas when behind. Midas even though you shouldn't Midas. It's the Golden Age! I completely agree with you that people have this tunnel-vision idea that the game should be played one way. | ||
|
FakeDeath
Malaysia6060 Posts
I mean me and my friends can't even search for dota 2 network. We don't have these problems but now even after Diretide is done. These problems persist. Valve please fix. | ||
|
writer22816
United States5775 Posts
| ||
|
hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
"Storm" spirit: Has two abilities that involve exploding. Since when does electricity explode? Electricity doesn't explode. Fire explodes. What is ball lightning? I have never seen electricity wrap around itself to create a three dimensional sphere and then move in a straight line. What element is commonly associated with balls? Fire. Fireball; that's a sick ability name. "Ember" spirit: Slight of fist involves rapidly moving from one target to the next in an area. Zeus and Rubick have already established that rapidly moving from one target to the next is a trope of electricity. Flame remnant involves quickly darting around. But if you have more than one out, then you are movie around erratically (as oppose to the straight line of ball lightning). Fire does not move in seemingly erratic ways, lighting bolts do. flame guard is ok I guess, but elecro magnetic barrier would be as good if not slightly better. They also both have "i'm going to tie you to the ground with my massless element i guess?" abilities which are really similar and equally unfitting for both heroes. Also consider this: Wex is the storm element. Wex grants invoker agility. Storm spirit should be agility. Exort is the fire (ember) element. Exort grants invoker intelligence. Ember spirit should be the int hero. valve plz fix thnks | ||
|
Darkren
Canada1841 Posts
On November 30 2013 10:03 Belisarius wrote: Well, I mean, it goes both ways. You can argue that people shouldn't pick heroes like AM, and you'd probably be right, but if someone picks him anyway you need to play around that. Yeah, it's really annoying if they refuse to TP to defend or ignore a fight half a screen away, but it's equally frustrating when the team decides they need to push into superior teamfight and wipe repeatedly, and then rages at the ultra hard carry for not coming to feed as well. Even for earlier carries, the right choice is sometimes to farm it out and force the other team to attack your towers. We all know that. The point is that "OMG we need to end now!" syndrome is just as bad as an afk carry. Ill take the the OMG we need end now over afk carry all day everyday | ||
|
hooahah
3752 Posts
On November 30 2013 16:05 hacklebeast wrote: storm spirit and ember spirit should be reversed. "Storm" spirit: Has two abilities that involve exploding. Since when does electricity explode? Electricity doesn't explode. Fire explodes. What is ball lightning? I have never seen electricity wrap around itself to create a three dimensional sphere and then move in a straight line. What element is commonly associated with balls? Fire. Fireball; that's a sick ability name. "Ember" spirit: Slight of fist involves rapidly moving from one target to the next in an area. Zeus and Rubick have already established that rapidly moving from one target to the next is a trope of electricity. Flame remnant involves quickly darting around. But if you have more than one out, then you are movie around erratically (as oppose to the straight line of ball lightning). Fire does not move in seemingly erratic ways, lighting bolts do. flame guard is ok I guess, but elecro magnetic barrier would be as good if not slightly better. They also both have "i'm going to tie you to the ground with my massless element i guess?" abilities which are really similar and equally unfitting for both heroes. Also consider this: Wex is the storm element. Wex grants invoker agility. Storm spirit should be agility. Exort is the fire (ember) element. Exort grants invoker intelligence. Ember spirit should be the int hero. valve plz fix thnks this makes a surprising amount of sense but it's too late now to change the heroes | ||
| ||
