|
Please remember that while this thread is for QQ and venting about the game, racism is not tolerated here on LD. |
United States47024 Posts
On July 17 2013 16:38 iokke wrote:
true, but at the risk of sounding anal, i was just wondering if my logic is right about delaying placing that first ward, cause i pretty much make it a point to put it down no sooner than 1:40 if I playing as a support, and if Im doing that wrong i'd rather know sooner then later
it's small things that add up to make a difference
I mean, if it doesn't make a difference in lower MMR games, and it's a bad habit in higher MMR games, I would honestly not worry about it and focus on other things.
On July 17 2013 17:00 Alur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 16:38 iokke wrote:
true, but at the risk of sounding anal, i was just wondering if my logic is right about delaying placing that first ward, cause i pretty much make it a point to put it down no sooner than 1:40 if I playing as a support, and if Im doing that wrong i'd rather know sooner then later
it's small things that add up to make a difference The later you place it, the higher the odds of it getting spotted and later counterwarded. Another thing is that you actually have stuff to do at 1:40, so the player you're babysitting might not be too happy about it. There is also a small risk of enemy movement within that timeframe, probably only relevant if you're playing vs enchantress or some roamstrat.
Well watching the 2:00 rune for your mid player is actually a good habit that pub supports don't do enough. This is true regardless of whether or not you have it warded.
On July 17 2013 20:05 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 18:33 EvilTeletubby wrote:
3) I should also mention you are auto attacking the creep camp... this just hurts your team, as you want them to beat on your creep wave, the longer the better. That's not wrong. Most double stacks easily kill a creep wave with multiple mobs left, which you can immediately stack again (so you can pull another wave). So autoattacking just makes that next stack a bit weaker (which you can counterbalance by denying your own creeps that time), but enables you to kill some more (=more $$$).
This. You should be managing your damage to stacks such that the stack dies at exactly the same time as one of the creep waves you pull into it. Whether this is the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd wave depends on which medium camps got stacked into it.
On July 17 2013 20:05 Zocat wrote:
I also dont think you can ward at 0:00.
150g courier
~190g lane regen
Go to lane, see if enemy wards your pullcamp. If yes, buy sentry. If no buy wards / upgrade courier.
A warded pullcamp is imho way worse compared to those initial 2min of no vision.
That's only if you're the only support AND you have no random gold. One support should buy courier, and the other should buy wards.
Again, the tradeoffs of this depend on the level you play at. But I don't think it makes enough difference at lower MMRs to be worth getting in a bad habit over.
EDIT: Also, a lot of supports end up over-valuing pulling in the early game and pull at the wrong times--like in a 2v2 where you can't actually control your pull and it will get get farmed by the enemy duo, it's actually not beneficial to pull. Or if you're in a 2v1 and you not being in lane gives the enemy off-laner enough safety to disrupt your carry's farm with creep advantage, or if you have a strong enough kill threat that you could zone the enemy off-laner and keep him 0 XP rather than just pulling some of the waves and letting him get XP on the others because you're not in lane farming the pull. Or sometimes you shouldn't even BE in lane because you have a strong roaming pair of supports. There are a lot of scenarios where you simply shouldn't/don't need to pull and can just ignore a pull camp ward.
|
And you build vanguard on doom every game OOH SERVERD BURNED LELELEL
Thanks for proving this isn't much better than reddit.
|
United States47024 Posts
On July 17 2013 18:33 EvilTeletubby wrote:
TBH I think you just really really underestimate the value of map awareness and quite frankly your play shows it pretty clearly. In fact, the Pudge goes 3-0 because the bot rune is not warded also (not necessarily your fault, the shadow shaman didn't get wards either), and he gets a Haste rune and double kills the bot lane. Neither team had rune vision actually which is just very poor play all around by both teams.
The most valuable ward against Pudge is actually the mid lane high ground ward right on top of his ramp (particularly after 6 minutes, not usually before then), because it protects the mid laner from hooks AND sees which directly Pudge leaves through in the river. You sometimes can even catch him TPing or smoking because he misses/forgets about the mid lane ward and assumes you have no vision under his tower.
It's nice if the supports buy this one, but if he's behind, the mid laner often should buy this one out of courtesy.
|
On July 18 2013 01:11 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 18:33 EvilTeletubby wrote:
TBH I think you just really really underestimate the value of map awareness and quite frankly your play shows it pretty clearly. In fact, the Pudge goes 3-0 because the bot rune is not warded also (not necessarily your fault, the shadow shaman didn't get wards either), and he gets a Haste rune and double kills the bot lane. Neither team had rune vision actually which is just very poor play all around by both teams. The most valuable ward against Pudge is actually the mid lane high ground ward right on top of his ramp (particularly after 6 minutes, not usually before then), because it protects the mid laner from hooks AND sees which directly Pudge leaves through in the river. You sometimes can even catch him TPing or smoking because he misses/forgets about the mid lane ward and assumes you have no vision under his tower. It's nice if the supports buy this one, but if he's behind, the mid laner often should buy this one out of courtesy.
Which, incidentally, is also the reason pudge should have both wards on the enemy highground and counterwards as well, and he should provide this for himself if his team can't help him. I have yet to see a pudge do this in a pub game.
|
On July 18 2013 01:08 SXGCoil wrote:
And you build vanguard on doom every game OOH SERVERD BURNED LELELEL
Thanks for proving this isn't much better than reddit.
I might need this one explained to me. Is he talking about a different game now or just crapping on TL?
|
For a support laning with a carry against 2 heroes (ie 2v2 lane), in most situations in a pub game, it is advised that not to (double stack) pull like you could when you are 2v1 or 3v1. While for the playing defensively (ie derping at the lane doing nothing) part and dont have a clue on prioritizing on purchasing items (boots or ward first), are exactly the reasons that good support is very rare in pub.
In a 2v2 lane your carry is probably fcked no matter what (unless the oppos are stupid and derping at the lane watching the your carry freefarming) so your priority is to ensure his survival, you can still stack but you only pull when the lane has gone too far. Just wait for the opportunity when oppos made mistake or your mid come to gank to make kills. The farm and levels of 4 of the heroes on the lane are done for (nobody will get anything ahead, if nobody made any mistake), but the thing is that the 2 hardlane oppos didnt expect to have good farm/level, so their job is to screw the farming of your carry, which is also your support job to think about how to counter that/help your carry/team.
here, some mindmap made by some nice guy:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/waYggl.png)
*Keep it mind that everything is situational.
+ Show Spoiler +
p/s: any support in any game should be able to afford a boots+ward at 6mins, as soon as you dont die more than 2 times prior that.
|
Baltimore, USA22260 Posts
On July 17 2013 23:41 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 23:38 PassiveAce wrote:
i know im late but wow ETT dropped the hammer Yeah, I want to know what inspired that level of digging. Also considering changing my steam name to avoid being snooped out and mocked.
Nah, he's actually on my friend's list for some reason. I think we played a game via the TL guild. He seemed fine at the time, maybe he was having an off night *shrugs*.
On July 18 2013 01:30 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 01:08 SXGCoil wrote:
And you build vanguard on doom every game OOH SERVERD BURNED LELELEL
Thanks for proving this isn't much better than reddit. I might need this one explained to me. Is he talking about a different game now or just crapping on TL?
He's trying to pick at me. Instead of addressing ANY of my points or his poor attitude, he's harping on the fact I like to build Vanguard on my jungle Doom. Classy guy. 
|
vanguard doom is fine as soon as you get it at a good timing, because your income as a doom can be coming in too quickly so combining the items into 1slot helps the hero.
I still remember that EHOME's doom in TI1 got his vanguard at 4:30. Sexiest doom ever.
|
On July 18 2013 02:05 EvilTeletubby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 23:41 Plansix wrote:On July 17 2013 23:38 PassiveAce wrote:
i know im late but wow ETT dropped the hammer Yeah, I want to know what inspired that level of digging. Also considering changing my steam name to avoid being snooped out and mocked. Nah, he's actually on my friend's list for some reason. I think we played a game via the TL guild. He seemed fine at the time, maybe he was having an off night *shrugs*. Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 01:30 Plansix wrote:On July 18 2013 01:08 SXGCoil wrote:
And you build vanguard on doom every game OOH SERVERD BURNED LELELEL
Thanks for proving this isn't much better than reddit. I might need this one explained to me. Is he talking about a different game now or just crapping on TL? He's trying to pick at me. Instead of addressing ANY of my points or his poor attitude, he's harping on the fact I like to build Vanguard on my jungle Doom.
Well admitting you screwed up is the hardest part of the internet. Personally, I like to have all the vision possible, rather than move fast. The science of pulls is not something I have mastered, but even I know not to single pull.
And who doesn't like a little Vanguard with their Doom. Its not the super pro hand of free gold, but that is a greedy play style and puts a lot of pressure on your team.
|
Why the fuck everytime I play a carry my team has ZERO disables ? Jesus fucking christ, I'm super fat, I go in and the enemy just run away because my team doesn't have disables.
|
On July 18 2013 02:16 BlitzerSC wrote:
Why the fuck everytime I play a carry my team has ZERO disables ? Jesus fucking christ, I'm super fat, I go in and the enemy just run away because my team doesn't have disables.
Time to play Sven. Bring your own disable to the party.
|
Baltimore, USA22260 Posts
On July 18 2013 02:08 BurningSera wrote:
vanguard doom is fine as soon as you get it at a good timing, because your income as a doom can be coming in too quickly so combining the items into 1slot helps the hero.
I still remember that EHOME's doom in TI1 got his vanguard at 4:30. Sexiest doom ever.
Yeah. I'll always get stout shield right away and get the ring of health pretty quickly since it skyrockets your ability to tank and farm creeps. With the vit booster, getting the extra 20 damaged block, regen, and health, allows you to roam from camp to camp with no consumables and makes you tankier if you need to wander out of the jungle for a little bit. Probably far from the perfect item but I like it on him.
And 4:30 is sick wth, how do you even do that??
|
United States47024 Posts
Well jungle doom wasn't a thing yet, and with lane farm, naked Vanguard at 4:30 isn't that out there. Consider that since you start with the Stout, finishing Vanguard is like 550 gold more than Treads. 4:30 Treads in safe lane is pretty reasonable, and Vanguard is just a kill + Devour gold more than that.
|
On July 18 2013 01:08 SXGCoil wrote:
And you build vanguard on doom every game OOH SERVERD BURNED LELELEL
Thanks for proving this isn't much better than reddit.
He called you out in the kindest, most respectful way that you can. he wasnt even insulting you or making fun of you, just pointing out that in this instance, there is stuff you could have done better,
|
On July 18 2013 02:48 PassiveAce wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 01:08 SXGCoil wrote:
And you build vanguard on doom every game OOH SERVERD BURNED LELELEL
Thanks for proving this isn't much better than reddit. He called you out in the kindest, most respectful way that you can. he wasnt even insulting you or making fun of you, just pointing out that in this instance, there is stuff you could have done better,
The post I didn't have the problem with. It was all the idiots afterwards yelling OOOH BURNED SERVED HUEHUEHUEE
They make fun of reddit for circlejerking but tl does it too.
|
On July 18 2013 02:45 TheYango wrote:
Well jungle doom wasn't a thing yet, and with lane farm, naked Vanguard at 4:30 isn't that out there. Consider that since you start with the Stout, finishing Vanguard is like 550 gold more than Treads. 4:30 Treads in safe lane is pretty reasonable, and Vanguard is just a kill + Devour gold more than that.
If you need the regen for Doom in the jungle (I guess...I feel like his W should keep you well stocked, and a bottle for Jungle doom might make sense - even traquils would be okay for awhlie because you devour the biggest creep anyways, so the regen stays on, and vlads is very good on doom)...
|
On July 18 2013 02:50 SXGCoil wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 02:48 PassiveAce wrote:On July 18 2013 01:08 SXGCoil wrote:
And you build vanguard on doom every game OOH SERVERD BURNED LELELEL
Thanks for proving this isn't much better than reddit. He called you out in the kindest, most respectful way that you can. he wasnt even insulting you or making fun of you, just pointing out that in this instance, there is stuff you could have done better, The post I didn't have the problem with. It was all the idiots afterwards yelling OOOH BURNED SERVED HUEHUEHUEE They make fun of reddit for circlejerking but tl does it too.
If you can't take a little light mocking from your peers, you might want to consider getting a bit thicker skin. Your still a member of the community and no one is saying your evil. You fucked up, tried to blame your team, got called on it. It happens to all of us and we just move along.
|
Last night I sat though about 5x where it would be "match found", then someone wouldn't accept. I wanted gave up and went to bed
|
yeah I thought about the first ward thing it a bit more, and even if I "save" extra 2 mins on the ward it's equivalent of about 50 gold? So it's pretty minor and if I already got them it really isnt worth not placing early ward as long as I will be re-warding. Plus like alur said sometimes i get tied up and don't ward for 2 min in time
|
*waiting for game*
MATCH FOUND
*alt tab*
*hit accept*
*alt tab back while loading*
*reads something*
*alt tab back to see if game is loaded*
HEY FUCKER, YOU DIDNT HIT ACCEPT AND NOW YOU HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL YOU CAN QUEUE AGAIN, LOLOLO U MAD?
god damnit. Why doesnt the accept button work correctly -_-
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
