|
Please remember that while this thread is for QQ and venting about the game, racism is not tolerated here on LD. |
On April 25 2013 02:10 BlitzerSC wrote:My QQ: I was AM, my lane partner was SD and we were vs Spectre and WR. SD starts pulling right from min 1 and I lose all my regen before the 3 min mark because of WR harassment. I ask SD if he can come on the lane to help me and he answer saying that SD can't do shit in the laning phase ( mkay). I couldn't farm so I decided to skip bfury and go vanguard/yasha just to have some "early killing power". Game was going nice even though we were behind from the beginning. We lose 2 sets of rax but we almost manage to win thanks to some nice split pushing. Team blame me for the loss. GG. Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 02:04 dartoo wrote:
I just played with a vanguard anti mage who opened every fight with his ulti lol....it continues..dont knw what happened, maybe a new bunch of people got beta keys. Cant be too hard to just read what a skill is supposed to do.
The weird part is, he actually knew how to pull and stuff...lol wut there is nothing wrong with vanguard on antimage if he can't farm a bfury fast enough or if the enemy team is pushing your base early.
Learn to buy tranquil boots and PMS/Stout shield. If the SD was pulling properly you should be constantly last hitting under your tower, there's no way the WR is gonna hit you hard enough such that PMS and tranquil boots can't keep you alive...especially if you go the burning build.
Also, if the SD is pulling properly you should heavily outlevel the WR/Spectre dual lane, at which point you can just start killing them when theres a 2/3 level difference between you guys...
|
On April 25 2013 03:15 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 03:09 SKYFISH_ wrote:
Vlads on Magina...
Should give your roughly the same survivability all around
What? no... Doesn't make vanguard good but vlads is *0* survivability until at least bfury + yasha are done. Even then the lifesteal isn't really insane since a lot of your damage is the mana burn. Vanguard at least offers 250 HP.
i'd take the aura anytime over the 250 HP IF we're getting pressured early game, which essentially means we're getting 5 manned.
your survivability often depens on how long the rest of your team can last in a temfight
|
On April 25 2013 03:51 SKYFISH_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 03:15 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 25 2013 03:09 SKYFISH_ wrote:
Vlads on Magina...
Should give your roughly the same survivability all around
What? no... Doesn't make vanguard good but vlads is *0* survivability until at least bfury + yasha are done. Even then the lifesteal isn't really insane since a lot of your damage is the mana burn. Vanguard at least offers 250 HP. i'd take the aura anytime over the 250 HP IF we're getting pressured early game, which essentially means we're getting 5 manned. your survivability often depends on how long the rest of your team can last in a temfight
The aura does little early game except for on like 3 heroes: Ursa/Lycan/Chen (who really just use it to farm/push/rosh anyways). Vlads is an OFFENSIVE 5-man item, not a defensive one. Pretty useful for early PUSH strats (lol early push with AM) and borderline useless for early defense.
Its pretty hypothetical anyways because if you are forced into those items as an AM due to them pushing you early you probably either autolose or if you win you didn't contribute much at all.
|
On April 25 2013 04:07 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 03:51 SKYFISH_ wrote:On April 25 2013 03:15 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 25 2013 03:09 SKYFISH_ wrote:
Vlads on Magina...
Should give your roughly the same survivability all around
What? no... Doesn't make vanguard good but vlads is *0* survivability until at least bfury + yasha are done. Even then the lifesteal isn't really insane since a lot of your damage is the mana burn. Vanguard at least offers 250 HP. i'd take the aura anytime over the 250 HP IF we're getting pressured early game, which essentially means we're getting 5 manned. your survivability often depends on how long the rest of your team can last in a temfight The aura does little early game except for on like 3 heroes: Ursa/Lycan/Chen (who really just use it to farm/push/rosh anyways). Vlads is an OFFENSIVE 5-man item, not a defensive one. Pretty useful for early PUSH strats (lol early push with AM) and borderline useless for early defense. Its pretty hypothetical anyways because if you are forced into those items as an AM due to them pushing you early you probably either autolose or if you win you didn't contribute much at all.
really, it does little early game?
its almost as if you're forgetting the damage,armor and regen bonuses which apply to everyone around you
you're not one of those people who think Vlads is bought only for the lifesteal, are you?
|
The point is that if you're going for early game pushing power, you shouldn't take Antimage, hence Vlads-First is not ideal 
|
On April 25 2013 04:41 SKYFISH_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 04:07 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 25 2013 03:51 SKYFISH_ wrote:On April 25 2013 03:15 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 25 2013 03:09 SKYFISH_ wrote:
Vlads on Magina...
Should give your roughly the same survivability all around
What? no... Doesn't make vanguard good but vlads is *0* survivability until at least bfury + yasha are done. Even then the lifesteal isn't really insane since a lot of your damage is the mana burn. Vanguard at least offers 250 HP. i'd take the aura anytime over the 250 HP IF we're getting pressured early game, which essentially means we're getting 5 manned. your survivability often depends on how long the rest of your team can last in a temfight The aura does little early game except for on like 3 heroes: Ursa/Lycan/Chen (who really just use it to farm/push/rosh anyways). Vlads is an OFFENSIVE 5-man item, not a defensive one. Pretty useful for early PUSH strats (lol early push with AM) and borderline useless for early defense. Its pretty hypothetical anyways because if you are forced into those items as an AM due to them pushing you early you probably either autolose or if you win you didn't contribute much at all. really, it does little early game? its almost as if you're forgetting the damage,armor and regen bonuses which apply to everyone around you you're not one of those people who think Vlads is bought only for the lifesteal, are you?
Here I am, carefully re-writing my posts to avoid personal attacks on you, and this is what you come back with? Come on man.
The real utility of vlads is the damage aura (and the armor aura, but the armor aura is more a factor in creep wave pushing rather than teamfights which early game are primarily dictated by stuns/slows and magic damage). Vlads is PERFECT for pushing. Correspondingly, its ATROCIOUS for survivability on an AM. Your life pool is laughable and armor doesn't raise your EHP vs physical in a manner that could possibly be relevant. The HP regen is irrelevant in battle, as is the lifesteal when it is a first item. There simply is no chance a vlads helps you survive better than a vanguard, which is already a poor choice.
Basically, vlads only benefits heroes who
A) have a decent HP pool so that the armor does something relevant (not am)
B) Do a lot of right-click damage so that the extra damage is relevant, bonus points for being melee so the lifesteal is relevant (not am if you get it first)
C) have summons who benefit from it (not am)
D) wish to push and use it to buff their lane creeps for that purpose (not am in this situation)
late game, AM generally fulfills A) and B) and often D) and as such vlads can be situationally OK on him, although often at that stage you would rather a support gets it since it is entirely aura-based and there is no reason for AM to carry it if there is a reasonable expectation for him to be around the support during teamfights.
|
My most consistent complaint is that every time a team mate randoms or picks Spectre and insists "I am a pro Spectre player who always out carries the other team"...it becomes a universal lie. I think the hero is underwhelming and does almost nothing another carry can't do better and sooner.
|
On April 25 2013 05:03 Oakenshield wrote:
My most consistent complaint is that every time a team mate randoms or picks Spectre and insists "I am a pro Spectre player who always out carries the other team"...it becomes a universal lie. I think the hero is underwhelming and does almost nothing another carry can't do better and sooner.
Lategame Spectre with Radiance / Heart / Lvl 2 Diffusal / Manta / Butterfly is absolutely brutal, probably one of the best lategame carries in the game. The problem with Spectre is you're absolutely worthless in the laning phase and you have nothing that helps you farm. You need free farm in the laning phase and babysitting from your supports, otherwise it's going to take you way too long to become relevant.
From my experience don't bother with Spectre if you're playing AP with pubs because Spectre is horrible in a dual lane vs dual lane set up. You need to be tri laned with 2 strong lane supports unless you enjoy being a feeding paperweight all game.
|
On April 25 2013 01:06 Vaelone wrote:Seems like a poor example considering your team had pretty poor heroes for farming in general and that you had just about the worst KDA in your team and didn't even seem to be playing support. Just based on that dotabuff link I'd say Zeus/Rubick/SM outperformed you there, Rubick gets bonus points for carrying Wards and SM/Zeus just had way better KDA. Huskar could have farmed more, died less and bought lifesteal item I guess. In any case I wouldn't say you were placed in a team clearly below your skill level, just based on that dotabuff link.
Appreciate you and others(while giving no stuff actually) but you missed a point. When you lost terribly you KDA becomes bad right? Because after some point you can even manage to die at the fountain etc. Besides looking at our team I am not the role 5 maybe I am 2-3 or smtng so it is clear to me to take some cs. After some point I just don't care the game and buyback etc.. since it was long lost.
|
Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
The thing about vlads is that it has some nice things like regen, armour etc that are okay but not amazing in a direct fight-- they're more useful for sustainability. The damage boost is nice and so is the lifesteal, but both of these are things that scale rather than having a huge impact early. Vlads is certainly a fine item, but its main strength (if you're not ursa, chen, lycan) is how well it scales with other items.
In the early game, if you find you are an AM and you have power treads and 2k gold and need to spend that gold to be effective RIGHT NOW, drums of endurance are a better choice.
1) drums give a solid amount attack speed and bonus damage. In the early stages when you're not dealing much damage to begin with, the vlad's bonus damage is often less than the +12 damage that drums give you (and drums also give +10 attack speed).
2) drums give you like 170 hp which is basically half a vanguard also. It's not as good as vanguard in terms of raw hp but unlike vanguard it gives you other stuff
3) drums also give you movement speed and the ability to spend charges for bonus movement speed and damage output. This is like super good, even on an already-mobile hero like AM.
the additional 170 hp is more than however much life you'd personally steal or regen in a fight. The additional movespeed is huge. The additional damage is better than vlad's damage at low level. And it's not as much hp as vanguard, but it has a lot more utility
Basically drums is half a yasha plus half a vanguard. Definitely the "I only have treads and 2k gold" item of choice for someone who needs to be effective NOW.
|
On April 25 2013 05:30 Laserist wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 01:06 Vaelone wrote:On April 25 2013 00:56 Laserist wrote:This game : http://dotabuff.com/matches/179915932I was leshrac and got most cs of my team. Look at LH and DN scores and tell me I am suffering Dunning-Kruger Seems like a poor example considering your team had pretty poor heroes for farming in general and that you had just about the worst KDA in your team and didn't even seem to be playing support. Just based on that dotabuff link I'd say Zeus/Rubick/SM outperformed you there, Rubick gets bonus points for carrying Wards and SM/Zeus just had way better KDA. Huskar could have farmed more, died less and bought lifesteal item I guess. In any case I wouldn't say you were placed in a team clearly below your skill level, just based on that dotabuff link. Appreciate you and others(while giving no stuff actually) but you missed a point. When you lost terribly you KDA becomes bad right? Because after some point you can even manage to die at the fountain etc. Besides looking at our team I am not the role 5 maybe I am 2-3 or smtng so it is clear to me to take some cs. After some point I just don't care the game and buyback etc.. since it was long lost.
You were going on 50 minutes and still trying to finish a bloodstone, you have the only hero with mass farming spells on your team, you are less farm dependent than 3 heroes on your team (Huskar, Zeus, and Skywrath all should have farm priority over you) and considering you have a rubick there as well you have literally 0 need for farm as the two of you can gank and kill all day in the early game; especially against a Silencer and OD. OD btw who was apparently allowed to get up force/sheep/bkb and had more last hits than you as a farming lesh.
Yes, this is exactly Dunning-Kruger because instead of looking at the lineup and going "how could I have changed my game to win" you're going "look at my idiot teammates that made me lose"
|
Drums is 1725g for 170 life. Vanguard is 2225g for 250 life. The Life per gold rate of the 2 items is essentially identical. Drums just also offers movespeed, attackspeed, dex, int, attack damage and a sweet active. Vanguard offers HP regen and kinda OK at best damage block.
|
Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On April 25 2013 05:51 Sn0_Man wrote:
Drums is 1725g for 170 life. Vanguard is 2225g for 250 life. The Life per gold rate of the 2 items is essentially identical. Drums just also offers movespeed, attackspeed, dex, int, attack damage and a sweet active. Vanguard offers HP regen and kinda OK at best damage block.
Yeah basically Vanguard is not a great item (most of the time) and vlads is more of a 3rd item than a 1st item since its effects are all scaling rather than straight-up.
Drums are underrated
|
I hate getting matched alongside stacks. Stacks are invariably total idiots...
I first pick Luna on dire, the guy picking with me gets Weaver. I call safelane.
Then Lich and AA. Ok, cool. We got a couple supports too.
Last guy picks...Zeus and demands to go top with Lich. I point out I've already claimed the safelane, he throws a bit of a tantrum and goes bottom with both Lich AND AA. Weaver takes mid. Ok, fine, whatever. Aggressive trilane with ganks coming in from mid I guess. Should be able to take their tower down early, right? I'm solo top vs both Viper and Warlock (who rotates after messing me up a lot) and I do ok I guess. Very little farm but getting good levels and once my tranqs are up I can be a bit more aggressive. Cool.
Bottom feeds. And feeds. And feeds. Zeus is down 0-7 by about the twelve minute mark. Far from taking their T1 early, bottom is the first lane to LOSE a tower as well as donate an ungodly amount of gold and XP through dying. I'm hanging on for my life against Viper (who is ahead of me in farm thanks to the early game and catches up in level due to QOP rotations to try and gank me).
Game goes on as you would expect. They derp about charging forward like idiots as a 3 or whatever. I try to save them and die as well. Lots of feeding, I'm barely managing to keep up by heavily jungling and farming basically every lane in succession. Still not enough. :-\
|
On April 25 2013 05:56 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 05:51 Sn0_Man wrote:
Drums is 1725g for 170 life. Vanguard is 2225g for 250 life. The Life per gold rate of the 2 items is essentially identical. Drums just also offers movespeed, attackspeed, dex, int, attack damage and a sweet active. Vanguard offers HP regen and kinda OK at best damage block. Yeah basically Vanguard is not a great item (most of the time) and vlads is more of a 3rd item than a 1st item since its effects are all scaling rather than straight-up. Drums are underrated
wat? underrated? Drums are good on pretty much all heroes and, IMO, deserve to be nerfed (further)
|
Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On April 25 2013 06:38 hooahah wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 05:56 Blazinghand wrote:On April 25 2013 05:51 Sn0_Man wrote:
Drums is 1725g for 170 life. Vanguard is 2225g for 250 life. The Life per gold rate of the 2 items is essentially identical. Drums just also offers movespeed, attackspeed, dex, int, attack damage and a sweet active. Vanguard offers HP regen and kinda OK at best damage block. Yeah basically Vanguard is not a great item (most of the time) and vlads is more of a 3rd item than a 1st item since its effects are all scaling rather than straight-up. Drums are underrated wat? underrated? Drums are good on pretty much all heroes and, IMO, deserve to be nerfed (further)
Read the last couple pages for context-- people are legit underrating drums. An item can be underrated by people here and still be too strong.
|
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UpHxMZP.png)
Amazing Valve's matchmaking that will make sure you lose every game and get fucking shit teammates. The so-called very high bracket with non-other than 20 wins players, russians stacks, supports that dont buy couriers or wards of the entire game, etc.
GJ Valve, impressive. I thought your server admins were unbeatable in terms of shittyness. I was wrong.
|
Man, I hate playing hard carries. I played Luna with a friend playing omniknight, the rest of our team was viper, warlock, and skywrath. None of them would ever bother to initiate so I always had to just sort of charge with the eclipse on in attempt to get them off guard and force a favorable fight. At one point we were in their base and probably could have pushed down the t4s but the rest of the team just decided to hang back and do just about nothing. Oee guy ported back to stop their weaver from taking our t3 but they were inevitably going to outcarry us and they had way better synergy.
In general I feel like people WAY underestimate the push for GG at lower levels when their hard carry is "split pushing". Its really difficult to pull off the split push strategy without coordination and so far every time I've been able to convince my team to just sac one of our lanes and push in for the throne we have won because they really don't expect you to do it. Especially in scenarios where they have something like a Medusa thats going to eventually come online or they have a 5 man team of hard carries its often a good idea to just push in for the kill but its rare that I can actually get people to go along with it 
|
On April 25 2013 00:56 Laserist wrote:This game : http://dotabuff.com/matches/179915932I was leshrac and got most cs of my team. Look at LH and DN scores and tell me I am suffering Dunning-Kruger
The irony... ><
I really enjoyed the throw given at 20 min.. top 4 networth is radiant... guess who s not in the top 4..
|
On April 25 2013 00:56 Laserist wrote:This game : http://dotabuff.com/matches/179915932I was leshrac and got most cs of my team. Look at LH and DN scores and tell me I am suffering Dunning-Kruger
I realise everyone else has already explained at length why this is wrong, but I'm still struggling to understand how someone would link a game in which they had the worst kda on their team and then specifically reference D-K.
I mean, if I were going to do it I'd at least attempt to find a game where I actually did better than my teammates in some way, rather than one in which I died a gazillion times as a greedy farming 3 and still ended up with less gpm than the carry who was actually fighting.
Everyone has those kinds of games, sure, but the fact that it's the one you thought you did well in is kind of telling.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
