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On September 16 2008 12:12 CrimsonLotus wrote: The problem is that overlords drop the creep way too fast (at least from what has been seen in some videos), if the change it to make it slower it may not be as imbalanced, as it would take a long time to create such "highway" giving the oponent enough time to stop or counter it.
Agreed. The rate that they drop the creep should be easily nerfable. If they don't directly effect the amount of creep the overlords drop, they could give the creep a "building time" that would control the speed buff. For example, 3 lords rush and start pouring creep, but the creep wouldn't allow the 30% speed boost until the creep is done "building." Or maybe make it simply an upgrade for the overlord-supplied creep like sight or speed and not the building-supplied creep.
Thoughts?
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absolutely fantabulistic!
zerg vs zerg will be even more exciting since drones are not going to get away so easy anymore. it's easier on starcraft than slow protoss and terran units because you only have to affect 1/3 of the units. it's better than slow other units because having faster units is really cool. i just hope they don't nerf the zerg units' normal speed later on. this will help in guarding from annoying air threats and drop tactics. oftentimes the zerg spore colonies are total crap and it is annoying moving hydralisks around so much but at least if they're faster that will help in defense. i hope they keep faster unit upgrades like zergling speed and ultralisk and hydralisk speed though, just so that the units' new speed on the creep will really feel like a kick in the pants. it sounds like overlords escorting your troops are much more useful now. i think the zerg defense was always missing something dramatic in original starcraft.
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The problem balancing out overlord creep dropping is that it still needs to be fast enough to get a nydus worm up inside someone's base.
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I wouldn't worry about imba given the new units and abilities that are in SC2 so far. Basically, I support them experimenting imba vs imba to churn out new RTS ideas and concepts which we would consider imba if brought over into brood war but balanced in SC2(after a balance update/nerf of course).
I'm just wondering now if the speed on creep is also affected on the enemy Zerg.
EDIT: Eh, shit, this is discussion topic about creep now. So, move along, nothing to see in this comment here. Also would like all info pertaining to creep in OP, not just the update.. for a better analysis. :3
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On September 16 2008 13:38 Ideas wrote: The problem balancing out overlord creep dropping is that it still needs to be fast enough to get a nydus worm up inside someone's base.
does it?
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makes ZvZ more interested?
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Some of you might want to know(if they didnt change it since wwi) that there isnt actually a speed upgrade (or any upgrade at all) for overlords. When you hit lair you can drop creep (for free) and morph your overlord to an overseer. Though an overseer moves alot faster than an overlord, it cant drop creep anymore.
As for the creep tumors, they are build from your hatcheries/lairs/hives and can only be build within a limited range from the hatchery or previously build creep tumors.
So you can build tumors all the way to your opponent's base, but it'll take some time/money.
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I think it makes more logical sense for terran/protoss ground units to get stuck and slowed in the creep instead of zergs running faster on a slimy goo. I'd try a slowdown of 15%. Either way, giving zerg a bonus on their home ground might encourage turtling and should be watched carefully.
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I like the idea and with the people that think slowing down the enemy units is better, but in actuality it is the same thing so it doesn't matter. I like the burrowed tumors idea just because it makes things more interesting for the other races to use detectors more effectively because they don't want to get caught with 20 zerglings or whatever in their face.
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Creep slowing enemy units down could be imba. Not only would the creep be able to prevent people from expanding but now also slow their running expansions down. ;;
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Hmmm... I'd rather have the creep just slow down certain enemy units that are on top of it. A 30% increase in speed is absurd!
Slowing down enemy units makes a bit of sense. Walking through deep layers of purple muck would slow anyone down. Then maybe certain units that hover, (archons, cobras, etc) will be unaffected. Maybe colossus too as they're pretty tall and have small feet.
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On September 16 2008 23:04 maybenexttime wrote: Creep slowing enemy units down could be imba. Not only would the creep be able to prevent people from expanding but now also slow their running expansions down. ;;
If it were to slow down units, it could just be a small 10% reduction or something.
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On September 16 2008 23:45 Haemonculus wrote: Hmmm... I'd rather have the creep just slow down certain enemy units that are on top of it. A 30% increase in speed is absurd!
Slowing down enemy units makes a bit of sense. Walking through deep layers of purple muck would slow anyone down. Then maybe certain units that hover, (archons, cobras, etc) will be unaffected. Maybe colossus too as they're pretty tall and have small feet. Don't let realism muddle what is otherwise an easy to understand gameplay mechanic.
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On September 17 2008 00:23 Doctorasul wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2008 23:45 Haemonculus wrote: Hmmm... I'd rather have the creep just slow down certain enemy units that are on top of it. A 30% increase in speed is absurd!
Slowing down enemy units makes a bit of sense. Walking through deep layers of purple muck would slow anyone down. Then maybe certain units that hover, (archons, cobras, etc) will be unaffected. Maybe colossus too as they're pretty tall and have small feet. Don't let realism muddle what is otherwise an easy to understand gameplay mechanic. I do like the idea of different units behaving differently on creep. It's not like Broodwar doesn't have any mechanics which aren't immediately understandable. A unit's behavior on creep should be about as easy to predict as which units do or do not trigger spider mines.
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On September 17 2008 03:34 moebius_string wrote: I thought the reason Blizzard changed the miss percentage when attacking high ground from SC1 was changed because they wanted things to be immediately clear to the player. Enemy unit speed reduction on creep would seem to go counter to this. This on top of Maurader "slow"(that the right unit?) seems to be adding in game play mechanics that affect unit responsiveness which I think is a bad thing for balance. Ensnare?
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THIS IS GREAT! 12 hatch is now more protected against bunker rush. the bunker will take damage by the creep and lings will wipe up the mess!
The speed on creep is also really awesome. Think about creeping to link expos to expos. Reinforcement and flanking will be faster. It solves the no more nydus canal problem.
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Marines and goons better have some kick butt range to kill those extremely fast lings and hydras.
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On September 17 2008 05:12 Rucky wrote: THIS IS GREAT! 12 hatch is now more protected against bunker rush. the bunker will take damage by the creep and lings will wipe up the mess!
The speed on creep is also really awesome. Think about creeping to link expos to expos. Reinforcement and flanking will be faster. It solves the no more nydus canal problem. Yea, I really like it. It will make Zerg players think differently now.
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