• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:58
CEST 08:58
KST 15:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles4[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China9Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL66Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?14FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event22
StarCraft 2
General
How Esports Is Reshaping the Future of Competitive Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays Korean Starcraft League Week 77
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
i aint gon lie to u bruh... BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 Preliminary Maps [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall SC uni coach streams logging into betting site
Tourneys
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Summer Games Done Quick 2025! US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2024!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 642 users

How do we measure GOATs without Korean SC2? - Page 12

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 10 11 12 All
Glorfindelio
Profile Joined October 2022
203 Posts
May 22 2023 22:01 GMT
#221
It's actually pretty cool that Serral and Maru are still crushing as SC2 nears its proverbial endgame. I'm sure others will argue for their respective merits against endlessly, but I'm 100% convinced that they both represent peak SC2 even all these years later, both in skill and consistency, judging by their recent runs.
JJH777
Profile Joined January 2011
United States4400 Posts
May 23 2023 00:25 GMT
#222
The head to head argument is silly in the context of a goat discussion because it's completely irrelevant. All head to head measures is their skill level vs each other on a few specific days. Especially for Maru and Serral given that they always dodge each other. Overall achievement is the only thing that matters. Maru and Dark are 50-50 against each other. Maru is a goat candidate and Dark isn't. That's because Maru has won way more important events. The same applies to the Maru and Serral comparison.

To go to a more extreme example. If there was a hypothetical player who won 20 high prestige premiers with all the best players from 2010 to 2017 but then became terrible and lost to Serral everytime they played him for 5 years straight and didn't take a single map that player would still easily be the goat over Serral until Serral wins 20 premiers with all the best players present. Current skill or skill against a single player is irrelevant.
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3347 Posts
May 23 2023 06:28 GMT
#223
On May 23 2023 07:01 Glorfindelio wrote:
It's actually pretty cool that Serral and Maru are still crushing as SC2 nears its proverbial endgame. I'm sure others will argue for their respective merits against endlessly, but I'm 100% convinced that they both represent peak SC2 even all these years later, both in skill and consistency, judging by their recent runs.

Like I said, the world is a better place when Maru running GSL and Serral running the WCS/ESL circuit. Then we will have them missing each other and both get eliminated at some point during the global tournament :D
Prev 1 10 11 12 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 2m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 1164
actioN 595
Leta 577
PianO 239
Tasteless 211
Dewaltoss 79
Soma 66
Movie 29
yabsab 22
Free 22
[ Show more ]
Sacsri 22
Bale 14
Dota 2
ODPixel256
XcaliburYe182
League of Legends
JimRising 644
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1289
Other Games
summit1g9242
Mew2King105
SortOf97
NeuroSwarm51
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick37171
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH355
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota265
League of Legends
• Rush1375
• Lourlo1145
• masondota2486
• HappyZerGling144
Other Games
• Shiphtur441
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3h 2m
WardiTV European League
9h 2m
MaNa vs sebesdes
Mixu vs Fjant
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs goblin
Gerald vs Babymarine
Krystianer vs YoungYakov
PiGosaur Monday
17h 2m
The PondCast
1d 3h
WardiTV European League
1d 5h
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 9h
Replay Cast
1d 17h
RSL Revival
2 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs Cure
[ Show More ]
FEL
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
FEL
4 days
FEL
4 days
CSO Cup
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 20
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.