On May 09 2022 17:30 lechatnoir wrote: As much as I'm sick of ZvZ finals I want another vs Serral. There hasn't been a finals between them except TSL8 right?
Serral does not have a chance against Rogue in the finals, it would be a brutal stomp. To truly challenge Rogue, it would have to be against Reynor. He would be a threat with his aggressive style and mind games which sometimes can even rival Rogue.
That seems really silly to say when Serral beat Rogue 3-0 in the semis of IEM Katowice, not particularly a minor tournament. I don't think Semis and Finals differ enough from one another to state it'd be a brutal stomp in any event.
On May 09 2022 17:30 lechatnoir wrote: As much as I'm sick of ZvZ finals I want another vs Serral. There hasn't been a finals between them except TSL8 right?
Serral does not have a chance against Rogue in the finals, it would be a brutal stomp. To truly challenge Rogue, it would have to be against Reynor. He would be a threat with his aggressive style and mind games which sometimes can even rival Rogue.
That seems really silly to say when Serral beat Rogue 3-0 in the semis of IEM Katowice, not particularly a minor tournament. I don't think Semis and Finals differ enough from one another to state it'd be a brutal stomp in any event.
Such are mirrors, ZvZ especially you seem to get a lot of sweeps where actually the individual games are pretty tight, or a few gambles paying off here, a misread there and it’s a sweep.
I’d slightly favour Rogue in this current meta to be fair, he’s a tricky customer with everything in his locker, and it’s quite a tricky and volatile matchup.
There was a previous meta where everything was pretty stable into roach/latterly viper wars and Serral was untouchable in the matchup.
On May 09 2022 17:30 lechatnoir wrote: As much as I'm sick of ZvZ finals I want another vs Serral. There hasn't been a finals between them except TSL8 right?
Serral does not have a chance against Rogue in the finals, it would be a brutal stomp. To truly challenge Rogue, it would have to be against Reynor. He would be a threat with his aggressive style and mind games which sometimes can even rival Rogue.
That seems really silly to say when Serral beat Rogue 3-0 in the semis of IEM Katowice, not particularly a minor tournament. I don't think Semis and Finals differ enough from one another to state it'd be a brutal stomp in any event.
Such are mirrors, ZvZ especially you seem to get a lot of sweeps where actually the individual games are pretty tight, or a few gambles paying off here, a misread there and it’s a sweep.
I’d slightly favour Rogue in this current meta to be fair, he’s a tricky customer with everything in his locker, and it’s quite a tricky and volatile matchup.
There was a previous meta where everything was pretty stable into roach/latterly viper wars and Serral was untouchable in the matchup.
Wasn't objecting to Rogue being a favorite - I think it'd be a tossup and more dependent on the form of the day - but rather their statement that Serral wouldn't have a chance against Rogue and that it'd be a brutal stomp - this has been proven to be incorrect plenty.
On May 09 2022 17:30 lechatnoir wrote: As much as I'm sick of ZvZ finals I want another vs Serral. There hasn't been a finals between them except TSL8 right?
Serral does not have a chance against Rogue in the finals, it would be a brutal stomp. To truly challenge Rogue, it would have to be against Reynor. He would be a threat with his aggressive style and mind games which sometimes can even rival Rogue.
That's why Serral does the 1000iq thing and take out Rogue 3-0 before he reaches the finals. To truly beat Rogue you have to prevent him from getting into a best of 7. Realistically though, I think guys like Serral, Reynor, Maru, Rogue can take out each other on any given day.
On May 09 2022 17:30 lechatnoir wrote: As much as I'm sick of ZvZ finals I want another vs Serral. There hasn't been a finals between them except TSL8 right?
Serral does not have a chance against Rogue in the finals, it would be a brutal stomp. To truly challenge Rogue, it would have to be against Reynor. He would be a threat with his aggressive style and mind games which sometimes can even rival Rogue.
On May 09 2022 17:30 lechatnoir wrote: As much as I'm sick of ZvZ finals I want another vs Serral. There hasn't been a finals between them except TSL8 right?
Serral does not have a chance against Rogue in the finals, it would be a brutal stomp. To truly challenge Rogue, it would have to be against Reynor. He would be a threat with his aggressive style and mind games which sometimes can even rival Rogue.
Do you even watch SC nowdays?
He was referring to Serral's brutal series swept in their recent final match meeting. Nothing personal though.
On May 09 2022 17:30 lechatnoir wrote: As much as I'm sick of ZvZ finals I want another vs Serral. There hasn't been a finals between them except TSL8 right?
Serral does not have a chance against Rogue in the finals, it would be a brutal stomp. To truly challenge Rogue, it would have to be against Reynor. He would be a threat with his aggressive style and mind games which sometimes can even rival Rogue.
That seems really silly to say when Serral beat Rogue 3-0 in the semis of IEM Katowice, not particularly a minor tournament. I don't think Semis and Finals differ enough from one another to state it'd be a brutal stomp in any event.
Saying bo5 semifinal is not that different to the bo7 final seems really silly when the whole article revolves around Rogues finals record specifically and how Rogue is such a different player especially in finals and bo7 series.
They met 1 time in a bo7 final so far and Rogue humiliated serral. It was a brutal stomp. Could it be different next time? Sure, but looking at the statistics and Serrals playstyle I dont think so.
As I said Reynor would be a much harder opponent for Rogue in the finals because of the playstyle match and I stand by what I said.
"For Rogue is the greatest champion StarCraft II has ever known"
the truth cant be further away
because for the greatest champion sc2 has ever known he is overal losing to many maps is to inconsistent losing to many tournament series vs lvl 2/3 players others would not his late game and specialy his skill ceiling is not top 3 winning vs creater ore general a gsl these days dosent give u any claims for beeing the goat
On May 12 2022 21:47 tilhorizon wrote: "For Rogue is the greatest champion StarCraft II has ever known"
the truth cant be further away
because for the greatest champion sc2 has ever known he is overal losing to many maps is to inconsistent losing to many tournament series vs lvl 2/3 players others would not his late game and specialy his skill ceiling is not top 3 winning vs creater ore general a gsl these days dosent give u any claims for beeing the goat
Uhhhhh.... No other Zerg in the world has ever come close to Rogue. None. In fact the top Zergs in recent history (defined as since 2018) are Rogue, Dark and Reynor. No other Zerg ever reached their level ever. Every other Zerg has never ever been able to perform at their level. I feel sorry for people who think there has been any other Zerg since 2018 who can even compete on the level of these 3 without the game being a severe fluke.
If you haven't won a GSL Code S, you literally can't be considered GOAT material. That's laughable at best to think anyone who is too scared to play against the big boys in Code S is anything less than an anomaly, a fluke and a mediocre player at best.
On May 12 2022 21:47 tilhorizon wrote: "For Rogue is the greatest champion StarCraft II has ever known"
the truth cant be further away
because for the greatest champion sc2 has ever known he is overal losing to many maps is to inconsistent losing to many tournament series vs lvl 2/3 players others would not his late game and specialy his skill ceiling is not top 3 winning vs creater ore general a gsl these days dosent give u any claims for beeing the goat
Uhhhhh.... No other Zerg in the world has ever come close to Rogue. None. In fact the top Zergs in recent history (defined as since 2018) are Rogue, Dark and Reynor. No other Zerg ever reached their level ever. Every other Zerg has never ever been able to perform at their level. I feel sorry for people who think there has been any other Zerg since 2018 who can even compete on the level of these 3 without the game being a severe fluke.
If you haven't won a GSL Code S, you literally can't be considered GOAT material. That's laughable at best to think anyone who is too scared to play against the big boys in Code S is anything less than an anomaly, a fluke and a mediocre player at best.
On May 12 2022 21:47 tilhorizon wrote: "For Rogue is the greatest champion StarCraft II has ever known"
the truth cant be further away
because for the greatest champion sc2 has ever known he is overal losing to many maps is to inconsistent losing to many tournament series vs lvl 2/3 players others would not his late game and specialy his skill ceiling is not top 3 winning vs creater ore general a gsl these days dosent give u any claims for beeing the goat
Uhhhhh.... No other Zerg in the world has ever come close to Rogue. None. In fact the top Zergs in recent history (defined as since 2018) are Rogue, Dark and Reynor. No other Zerg ever reached their level ever. Every other Zerg has never ever been able to perform at their level. I feel sorry for people who think there has been any other Zerg since 2018 who can even compete on the level of these 3 without the game being a severe fluke.
If you haven't won a GSL Code S, you literally can't be considered GOAT material. That's laughable at best to think anyone who is too scared to play against the big boys in Code S is anything less than an anomaly, a fluke and a mediocre player at best.
On May 12 2022 21:47 tilhorizon wrote: "For Rogue is the greatest champion StarCraft II has ever known"
the truth cant be further away
because for the greatest champion sc2 has ever known he is overal losing to many maps is to inconsistent losing to many tournament series vs lvl 2/3 players others would not his late game and specialy his skill ceiling is not top 3 winning vs creater ore general a gsl these days dosent give u any claims for beeing the goat
I think you missed the point of that statement. Its not that hes consistently the best player every time he shows up because we all know he generally has a lull after winning a tourney. But the point is that he just knows how to win by any means whether that is a beautiful game or the ugliest roach all in. His series planning and mind games are on a level of their own in extended series.
Thats what makes him the greatest champion while maybe not being the greatest player.
Also while not what it once was gsl still has more top players than the dh eu/na but the level is getting much much closer
On May 12 2022 21:47 tilhorizon wrote: "For Rogue is the greatest champion StarCraft II has ever known"
the truth cant be further away
because for the greatest champion sc2 has ever known he is overal losing to many maps is to inconsistent losing to many tournament series vs lvl 2/3 players others would not his late game and specialy his skill ceiling is not top 3 winning vs creater ore general a gsl these days dosent give u any claims for beeing the goat
Uhhhhh.... No other Zerg in the world has ever come close to Rogue. None. In fact the top Zergs in recent history (defined as since 2018) are Rogue, Dark and Reynor. No other Zerg ever reached their level ever. Every other Zerg has never ever been able to perform at their level. I feel sorry for people who think there has been any other Zerg since 2018 who can even compete on the level of these 3 without the game being a severe fluke.
If you haven't won a GSL Code S, you literally can't be considered GOAT material. That's laughable at best to think anyone who is too scared to play against the big boys in Code S is anything less than an anomaly, a fluke and a mediocre player at best.
Serral would like a word.
Code S certainly used to be a crucial box to be ticked, she’s sadly not nearly as stacked as she used to be, to the extent I think nowadays there’s as much of a question mark on the Code S champion winning a tournament without Serral and Reynor in it, as there is on those guys not having a Code S.
Rogue’s certainly up there in the GOAT stakes for his clutch tournament play as much as his medal haul for me regardless.
On May 12 2022 21:47 tilhorizon wrote: "For Rogue is the greatest champion StarCraft II has ever known"
the truth cant be further away
because for the greatest champion sc2 has ever known he is overal losing to many maps is to inconsistent losing to many tournament series vs lvl 2/3 players others would not his late game and specialy his skill ceiling is not top 3 winning vs creater ore general a gsl these days dosent give u any claims for beeing the goat
Uhhhhh.... No other Zerg in the world has ever come close to Rogue. None. In fact the top Zergs in recent history (defined as since 2018) are Rogue, Dark and Reynor. No other Zerg ever reached their level ever. Every other Zerg has never ever been able to perform at their level. I feel sorry for people who think there has been any other Zerg since 2018 who can even compete on the level of these 3 without the game being a severe fluke.
If you haven't won a GSL Code S, you literally can't be considered GOAT material. That's laughable at best to think anyone who is too scared to play against the big boys in Code S is anything less than an anomaly, a fluke and a mediocre player at best.
Serral would like a word.
Code S certainly used to be a crucial box to be ticked, she’s sadly not nearly as stacked as she used to be, to the extent I think nowadays there’s as much of a question mark on the Code S champion winning a tournament without Serral and Reynor in it, as there is on those guys not having a Code S.
Rogue’s certainly up there in the GOAT stakes for his clutch tournament play as much as his medal haul for me regardless.
This is certainly true in a discussion about the current best player but in a discussion about the greatest player OF ALL TIME I think not having a Code S is a big gap in the resumee as for the majority of sc2's lifespan it was THE major tournament (2010 until 2019-20 maybe?)
But I agree that Rogue's GSLs shouldn't be worth as much as GSL victories in the past which is why I personally don't think he's the Goat
On May 12 2022 21:47 tilhorizon wrote: "For Rogue is the greatest champion StarCraft II has ever known"
the truth cant be further away
because for the greatest champion sc2 has ever known he is overal losing to many maps is to inconsistent losing to many tournament series vs lvl 2/3 players others would not his late game and specialy his skill ceiling is not top 3 winning vs creater ore general a gsl these days dosent give u any claims for beeing the goat
Uhhhhh.... No other Zerg in the world has ever come close to Rogue. None. In fact the top Zergs in recent history (defined as since 2018) are Rogue, Dark and Reynor. No other Zerg ever reached their level ever. Every other Zerg has never ever been able to perform at their level. I feel sorry for people who think there has been any other Zerg since 2018 who can even compete on the level of these 3 without the game being a severe fluke.
If you haven't won a GSL Code S, you literally can't be considered GOAT material. That's laughable at best to think anyone who is too scared to play against the big boys in Code S is anything less than an anomaly, a fluke and a mediocre player at best.
Serral would like a word.
Code S certainly used to be a crucial box to be ticked, she’s sadly not nearly as stacked as she used to be, to the extent I think nowadays there’s as much of a question mark on the Code S champion winning a tournament without Serral and Reynor in it, as there is on those guys not having a Code S.
Rogue’s certainly up there in the GOAT stakes for his clutch tournament play as much as his medal haul for me regardless.
This is certainly true in a discussion about the current best player but in a discussion about the greatest player OF ALL TIME I think not having a Code S is a big gap in the resumee as for the majority of sc2's lifespan it was THE major tournament (2010 until 2019-20 maybe?)
But I agree that Rogue's GSLs shouldn't be worth as much as GSL victories in the past which is why I personally don't think he's the Goat
It’s certainly a gap in the resume, although at this point I think Serral/Reynor/Clem and other foreigners playing in Code S is more something that would be cool to see as a fewer and enhance the tournament’s depth than something they need to do to prove their chops.
We’ve had 3 different games in the SC2 lifespan, let alone patches and metas.
Then the Kespa era, and the eras before and after that, big changes to tournament structures and yearly circuit and all sorts.
I will continue to pussy out of naming my singular GOAT as it’s just so blooming difficult to directly compare players with all these factors in play.
I’d just have a list of greats really, which Rogue has definitely made it on to
If rogue got nothing but 4 (potentially 5) GSLs, we may doubt if he could be the GOAT. If rogue got nothing but 2IEM WC + 1BLC WC, we may still doubt if he could be the GOAT. But...Who the fk on earth could possibility win 2IEM WC + 4GSLs(potentially 5) + 1BLC WC in one's sc2 career???? I mean, excuse me??????????Its like, are you MJ in sc2????????????????
EPT
