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DHM Fall Finals: Playoffs Bracket - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
42 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12790 Posts
September 11 2021 15:24 GMT
#21
On September 11 2021 23:04 tilhorizon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2021 22:53 Poopi wrote:
Hopefully Clem qualifies, he had the toughest draw :/


they qualified already i guess you mean getting to the next round
clem the toughest draw ? parting is the weakest draw

Well Dark is not good either because of ping, but Serral is much easier than PartinG for Clem.
WriterMaru
MiksukkaTV
Profile Joined September 2021
Finland2 Posts
September 11 2021 15:24 GMT
#22
En ole ikinä katsonut pelejä, mutta on vähän outoa että pelissä on 1 suomalainen
uselless
Profile Joined April 2021
92 Posts
September 11 2021 18:21 GMT
#23
On September 11 2021 18:34 tigera6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2021 17:16 Vision_ wrote:
On September 11 2021 04:10 Husyelt wrote:
All of the R08 matches look fun from a competitive standpoint. Clem doesn't have a shot in hell of making it to the finals though. Loved to be proved wrong. Dark v Serral / Bunny.


Bunny is highly underdog against Serral :

http://aligulac.com/inference/match/?bo=5&ps=485,1813

Dreaming bracket for Serral i agree, his opponent in semi-final can t be Clem or Trap.. Those two only players can beat him

Clem is in the Korean bracket while Serral has the best bracket for him. I would expect a Serral victory unless Clem reach final

Wrong Bunny in the link that you showed,
http://aligulac.com/inference/match/?bo=5&ps=485,1517

But I give Bunny a 1 out of 3 shot given how aggressive he plays the TvZ matchup. Hell, lets see if HM can turn on his God Mode and bring down Serral tonight.



aligulac is perfect for matchups like this, where both players don't play in small online tournaments too much. Bunny has been improving rapidly lately, and his rating might not reflect that, but still I think the prediction is accurate, just because it doesn't seem like Serral loses to Terrans besides Clem
maru :D
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
September 12 2021 16:55 GMT
#24
The first game of the DH Masters finals Fall just show how idiot the game can be.... Serral only do queens and humiliate Trap...
TentativePanda
Profile Joined August 2014
United States800 Posts
September 12 2021 17:33 GMT
#25
I love when protoss players complain their bullshit wonky builds don't work
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
September 12 2021 17:36 GMT
#26
On September 13 2021 02:33 TentativePanda wrote:
I love when protoss players complain their bullshit wonky builds don't work


You mean like a Queens walk ?
jpg06051992
Profile Joined July 2015
United States580 Posts
September 12 2021 22:07 GMT
#27
6 - 0 is no fluke, Serral is the superior player. That build in the last game was kinda bad
"SO MANY BANELINGS!"
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-09-12 23:03:28
September 12 2021 22:53 GMT
#28
On September 13 2021 07:07 jpg06051992 wrote:
6 - 0 is no fluke, Serral is the superior player. That build in the last game was kinda bad


Massing Queens has nothing to do in finals.

I just see ugly playing from both sides

I m not expert of PvZ but it seems to be hard of harvesting gas and get in the early game enought cost-effective units to counter queens/roachs. In this kind of composition, which is beefy, Zerg player is only spending 25 gas per roaches and can obtain for free gas a complementary unit while roaches could be pretty useless, queens are the swiss-knife for free gas and can compensate for the shortcomings of such unit in all areas
661
Profile Joined May 2018
71 Posts
September 13 2021 08:18 GMT
#29
Dark after the second match against Trap :D
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6889 Posts
September 13 2021 08:43 GMT
#30
On September 13 2021 07:53 Vision_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2021 07:07 jpg06051992 wrote:
6 - 0 is no fluke, Serral is the superior player. That build in the last game was kinda bad


Massing Queens has nothing to do in finals.

I just see ugly playing from both sides

I m not expert of PvZ but it seems to be hard of harvesting gas and get in the early game enought cost-effective units to counter queens/roachs. In this kind of composition, which is beefy, Zerg player is only spending 25 gas per roaches and can obtain for free gas a complementary unit while roaches could be pretty useless, queens are the swiss-knife for free gas and can compensate for the shortcomings of such unit in all areas


Zealots and Immortals are pretty low gas invest and they destroy queen roach. It's not like there are no options.
But when you go Stargate first and your Oracle doesn't do shit, well ...
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
September 13 2021 11:57 GMT
#31
On September 13 2021 17:43 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2021 07:53 Vision_ wrote:
On September 13 2021 07:07 jpg06051992 wrote:
6 - 0 is no fluke, Serral is the superior player. That build in the last game was kinda bad


Massing Queens has nothing to do in finals.

I just see ugly playing from both sides

I m not expert of PvZ but it seems to be hard of harvesting gas and get in the early game enought cost-effective units to counter queens/roachs. In this kind of composition, which is beefy, Zerg player is only spending 25 gas per roaches and can obtain for free gas a complementary unit while roaches could be pretty useless, queens are the swiss-knife for free gas and can compensate for the shortcomings of such unit in all areas


Zealots and Immortals are pretty low gas invest and they destroy queen roach. It's not like there are no options.
But when you go Stargate first and your Oracle doesn't do shit, well ...


why would you buy zealots which are not so fast and hit on contact while a bunch of queens and roach (impossible de surround) can hit and run you and never be cost effective and represents the core of your army..

Am i supposed to take the immortal in count ? no they are too slow and oftenly catch by a one shot roach-group
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6889 Posts
September 13 2021 13:06 GMT
#32
On September 13 2021 20:57 Vision_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2021 17:43 Harris1st wrote:
On September 13 2021 07:53 Vision_ wrote:
On September 13 2021 07:07 jpg06051992 wrote:
6 - 0 is no fluke, Serral is the superior player. That build in the last game was kinda bad


Massing Queens has nothing to do in finals.

I just see ugly playing from both sides

I m not expert of PvZ but it seems to be hard of harvesting gas and get in the early game enought cost-effective units to counter queens/roachs. In this kind of composition, which is beefy, Zerg player is only spending 25 gas per roaches and can obtain for free gas a complementary unit while roaches could be pretty useless, queens are the swiss-knife for free gas and can compensate for the shortcomings of such unit in all areas


Zealots and Immortals are pretty low gas invest and they destroy queen roach. It's not like there are no options.
But when you go Stargate first and your Oracle doesn't do shit, well ...


why would you buy zealots which are not so fast and hit on contact while a bunch of queens and roach (impossible de surround) can hit and run you and never be cost effective and represents the core of your army..

Am i supposed to take the immortal in count ? no they are too slow and oftenly catch by a one shot roach-group


What are you even talking about?
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
InfCereal
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada1759 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-09-13 16:13:32
September 13 2021 16:13 GMT
#33
On September 13 2021 22:06 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2021 20:57 Vision_ wrote:
On September 13 2021 17:43 Harris1st wrote:
On September 13 2021 07:53 Vision_ wrote:
On September 13 2021 07:07 jpg06051992 wrote:
6 - 0 is no fluke, Serral is the superior player. That build in the last game was kinda bad


Massing Queens has nothing to do in finals.

I just see ugly playing from both sides

I m not expert of PvZ but it seems to be hard of harvesting gas and get in the early game enought cost-effective units to counter queens/roachs. In this kind of composition, which is beefy, Zerg player is only spending 25 gas per roaches and can obtain for free gas a complementary unit while roaches could be pretty useless, queens are the swiss-knife for free gas and can compensate for the shortcomings of such unit in all areas


Zealots and Immortals are pretty low gas invest and they destroy queen roach. It's not like there are no options.
But when you go Stargate first and your Oracle doesn't do shit, well ...


why would you buy zealots which are not so fast and hit on contact while a bunch of queens and roach (impossible de surround) can hit and run you and never be cost effective and represents the core of your army..

Am i supposed to take the immortal in count ? no they are too slow and oftenly catch by a one shot roach-group


What are you even talking about?


I believe he's trying to say that immortals and zealots are bad against roaches.
Cereal
Arghmyliver
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States1077 Posts
September 13 2021 16:37 GMT
#34
14-1 Holy Moly.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Now witness their attempts to fly from tree to tree. Notice they do not so much fly as plummet.
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-09-13 17:35:40
September 13 2021 17:35 GMT
#35
On September 14 2021 01:13 InfCereal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2021 22:06 Harris1st wrote:
On September 13 2021 20:57 Vision_ wrote:
On September 13 2021 17:43 Harris1st wrote:
On September 13 2021 07:53 Vision_ wrote:
On September 13 2021 07:07 jpg06051992 wrote:
6 - 0 is no fluke, Serral is the superior player. That build in the last game was kinda bad


Massing Queens has nothing to do in finals.

I just see ugly playing from both sides

I m not expert of PvZ but it seems to be hard of harvesting gas and get in the early game enought cost-effective units to counter queens/roachs. In this kind of composition, which is beefy, Zerg player is only spending 25 gas per roaches and can obtain for free gas a complementary unit while roaches could be pretty useless, queens are the swiss-knife for free gas and can compensate for the shortcomings of such unit in all areas


Zealots and Immortals are pretty low gas invest and they destroy queen roach. It's not like there are no options.
But when you go Stargate first and your Oracle doesn't do shit, well ...


why would you buy zealots which are not so fast and hit on contact while a bunch of queens and roach (impossible de surround) can hit and run you and never be cost effective and represents the core of your army..

Am i supposed to take the immortal in count ? no they are too slow and oftenly catch by a one shot roach-group


What are you even talking about?


I believe he's trying to say that immortals and zealots are bad against roaches.


I wouldn t be surprised to see your composition just reck when the Z will push on the muta button...
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain17970 Posts
September 13 2021 20:34 GMT
#36
On September 14 2021 02:35 Vision_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2021 01:13 InfCereal wrote:
On September 13 2021 22:06 Harris1st wrote:
On September 13 2021 20:57 Vision_ wrote:
On September 13 2021 17:43 Harris1st wrote:
On September 13 2021 07:53 Vision_ wrote:
On September 13 2021 07:07 jpg06051992 wrote:
6 - 0 is no fluke, Serral is the superior player. That build in the last game was kinda bad


Massing Queens has nothing to do in finals.

I just see ugly playing from both sides

I m not expert of PvZ but it seems to be hard of harvesting gas and get in the early game enought cost-effective units to counter queens/roachs. In this kind of composition, which is beefy, Zerg player is only spending 25 gas per roaches and can obtain for free gas a complementary unit while roaches could be pretty useless, queens are the swiss-knife for free gas and can compensate for the shortcomings of such unit in all areas


Zealots and Immortals are pretty low gas invest and they destroy queen roach. It's not like there are no options.
But when you go Stargate first and your Oracle doesn't do shit, well ...


why would you buy zealots which are not so fast and hit on contact while a bunch of queens and roach (impossible de surround) can hit and run you and never be cost effective and represents the core of your army..

Am i supposed to take the immortal in count ? no they are too slow and oftenly catch by a one shot roach-group


What are you even talking about?


I believe he's trying to say that immortals and zealots are bad against roaches.


I wouldn t be surprised to see your composition just reck when the Z will push on the muta button...

If he's queen walking across the map with roaches, he isn't building mutas any time soon now, is he? I mean, get some Phoenix if you're afraid of a muta follow up, but generally it's failed queen walk into gg long before mutas are an option.
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-09-14 07:29:17
September 14 2021 06:52 GMT
#37
On September 14 2021 05:34 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2021 02:35 Vision_ wrote:
On September 14 2021 01:13 InfCereal wrote:
On September 13 2021 22:06 Harris1st wrote:
On September 13 2021 20:57 Vision_ wrote:
On September 13 2021 17:43 Harris1st wrote:
On September 13 2021 07:53 Vision_ wrote:
On September 13 2021 07:07 jpg06051992 wrote:
6 - 0 is no fluke, Serral is the superior player. That build in the last game was kinda bad


Massing Queens has nothing to do in finals.

I just see ugly playing from both sides

I m not expert of PvZ but it seems to be hard of harvesting gas and get in the early game enought cost-effective units to counter queens/roachs. In this kind of composition, which is beefy, Zerg player is only spending 25 gas per roaches and can obtain for free gas a complementary unit while roaches could be pretty useless, queens are the swiss-knife for free gas and can compensate for the shortcomings of such unit in all areas


Zealots and Immortals are pretty low gas invest and they destroy queen roach. It's not like there are no options.
But when you go Stargate first and your Oracle doesn't do shit, well ...


why would you buy zealots which are not so fast and hit on contact while a bunch of queens and roach (impossible de surround) can hit and run you and never be cost effective and represents the core of your army..

Am i supposed to take the immortal in count ? no they are too slow and oftenly catch by a one shot roach-group


What are you even talking about?


I believe he's trying to say that immortals and zealots are bad against roaches.


I wouldn t be surprised to see your composition just reck when the Z will push on the muta button...

If he's queen walking across the map with roaches, he isn't building mutas any time soon now, is he? I mean, get some Phoenix if you're afraid of a muta follow up, but generally it's failed queen walk into gg long before mutas are an option.


Invest in mass queens without spending gas, is best option for Zerg since Queens are scaling so well until end game while zerglings (not so bad ...) and roachs (to a lesser extent) could be a waste of larva in the future.

From what I can observe, queens become a counterweight to opponnent development despite their big weakness is their speed of movement without creep, we have seen that a player like Serral is capable to spread the creep in less than 7 minutes over most of the map, at this point, we are barely in the middle of the game (Zerg philosophy is about units with big weakness and very specialized and i assume Queens hasn t so much DPS but Protoss seems to lack 'burst' as a bio-ball could)

Protoss don't have enough tools to roll back creep (and I'm only talking about high-level esports ...) since their technological development is the slowest, they have more difficulty responding globally to the variation of Zerg composition. Its versatility weakens the strategic options of the Protoss and makes other Zerg units unattractive in gas investment ... From this hypothesis, the queen overlaps a little on all other units because she fills all the roles moderately (which is contrary to the Zerg philosophy) and therefore counteracts all the other units. This is a problem because the protoss is not able to drive anything, except by all-ins. As for the Zerg player is guaranteed to go all the way to the end of the game, carry by a versatile unit for 0 gas.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6889 Posts
September 14 2021 09:27 GMT
#38
On September 14 2021 01:13 InfCereal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2021 22:06 Harris1st wrote:
On September 13 2021 20:57 Vision_ wrote:
On September 13 2021 17:43 Harris1st wrote:
On September 13 2021 07:53 Vision_ wrote:
On September 13 2021 07:07 jpg06051992 wrote:
6 - 0 is no fluke, Serral is the superior player. That build in the last game was kinda bad


Massing Queens has nothing to do in finals.

I just see ugly playing from both sides

I m not expert of PvZ but it seems to be hard of harvesting gas and get in the early game enought cost-effective units to counter queens/roachs. In this kind of composition, which is beefy, Zerg player is only spending 25 gas per roaches and can obtain for free gas a complementary unit while roaches could be pretty useless, queens are the swiss-knife for free gas and can compensate for the shortcomings of such unit in all areas


Zealots and Immortals are pretty low gas invest and they destroy queen roach. It's not like there are no options.
But when you go Stargate first and your Oracle doesn't do shit, well ...


why would you buy zealots which are not so fast and hit on contact while a bunch of queens and roach (impossible de surround) can hit and run you and never be cost effective and represents the core of your army..

Am i supposed to take the immortal in count ? no they are too slow and oftenly catch by a one shot roach-group


What are you even talking about?


I believe he's trying to say that immortals and zealots are bad against roaches.


Yeah but all his arguments are so one-sided, it's getting kinda ridiculous.
It's like saying it's imbalanced that roaches can't kill Carriers
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-09-14 11:12:07
September 14 2021 10:11 GMT
#39
On September 14 2021 18:27 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2021 01:13 InfCereal wrote:
On September 13 2021 22:06 Harris1st wrote:
On September 13 2021 20:57 Vision_ wrote:
On September 13 2021 17:43 Harris1st wrote:
On September 13 2021 07:53 Vision_ wrote:
On September 13 2021 07:07 jpg06051992 wrote:
6 - 0 is no fluke, Serral is the superior player. That build in the last game was kinda bad


Massing Queens has nothing to do in finals.

I just see ugly playing from both sides

I m not expert of PvZ but it seems to be hard of harvesting gas and get in the early game enought cost-effective units to counter queens/roachs. In this kind of composition, which is beefy, Zerg player is only spending 25 gas per roaches and can obtain for free gas a complementary unit while roaches could be pretty useless, queens are the swiss-knife for free gas and can compensate for the shortcomings of such unit in all areas


Zealots and Immortals are pretty low gas invest and they destroy queen roach. It's not like there are no options.
But when you go Stargate first and your Oracle doesn't do shit, well ...


why would you buy zealots which are not so fast and hit on contact while a bunch of queens and roach (impossible de surround) can hit and run you and never be cost effective and represents the core of your army..

Am i supposed to take the immortal in count ? no they are too slow and oftenly catch by a one shot roach-group


What are you even talking about?


I believe he's trying to say that immortals and zealots are bad against roaches.


Yeah but all his arguments are so one-sided, it's getting kinda ridiculous.
It's like saying it's imbalanced that roaches can't kill Carriers


I don't understand what is so difficult to understand, the quality of an army must be slightly more dependent on gas than on mineral, if the Protoss army demands too much gas while zerg only have to put the gas in upgrades or buildings, it seems obvious that zerg player take even less risk to play even though it is already the race where there is the least risk to play thanks to tumors and their lighting on map

Even assuming that the Zerg is still the most harvesting race, there are times when you see matches where the Zerg is still alive while it has wasted a ton of resources swapping un-costeffective units just in order to slow down the development of his opponent.

What is really ridiculous is the few clever arguments against the cost of the queen ...

Not so long ago, i read the idea of consider creep tumor as a building, which means, Zerg has to create the tumors like the other building, morphing a drone. That s said, it could demand some adjustement but at least Zerg would care a little bit more about the defense along the edge/frontier of their mucus. It s a really good idea, the writer of this idea thought to limit the number of iteration process, but if you allow in this proposition, to re-create a tumor (when the last tumor is killed) from any other tumors (and not only the last one), you could describe a very better system of creep than actually.

Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6889 Posts
September 14 2021 11:36 GMT
#40
On September 14 2021 19:11 Vision_ wrote:
Not so long ago, i read the idea of consider creep tumor as a building, which means, Zerg has to create the tumors like the other building, morphing a drone. That s said, it could demand some adjustement but at least Zerg would care a little bit more about the defense along the edge/frontier of their mucus. It s a really good idea, the writer of this idea thought to limit the number of iteration process, but if you allow in this proposition, to re-create a tumor (when the last tumor is killed) from any other tumors (and not only the last one), you could describe a very better system of creep than actually.


That is a very deep cut into the system as it is right now. I'd rather have a Queen limit introduced, like 2 Queens per Hatchery if it comes down to it.
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
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