• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 15:17
CET 21:17
KST 05:17
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket4Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge1[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation14Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA9
StarCraft 2
General
Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket GM / Master map hacker and general hacking and cheating thread SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close"
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Revival: Season 3 Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle What happened to TvZ on Retro? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL21] GosuLeague T1 Ro16 - Tue & Thu 22:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI About SC2SEA.COM
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Evangelium — Chapt…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1041 users

GSL Code S Finals Preview: Rogue vs Maru (2021 S1)

Forum Index > SC2 General
40 CommentsPost a Reply
Normal

GSL Code S Finals Preview: Rogue vs Maru (2021 S1)

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
May 5th, 2021 12:07 GMT

2021 GSL Code S Season 1 - Grand Final

by Wax

After weeks of fierce competition, it's finally time for Code S Season 1 to come to an end. Rogue versus Maru will face off in a battle between two of the all-time greats, with both of them fighting for a chance to further their already legendary legacies.

More info: GSL Code S Season 1 on Liquipedia
[image loading]


The Stakes: No Matter Who Wins, History Will Be Made

Maru vs Rogue may be the most impactful grand finals in Global StarCraft II League history. It's not so much a subjective opinion as it is an inevitability. The GSL has existed for over ten years, establishing a deep legacy replete with legendary moments and players. The longer the GSL lives on, the more we gain the benefit of context. Winning three Code S championships was already impressive in 2011, but in 2021, we've come to fully appreciate the special class of players that can reach that milestone. We've learned which records exist to be surpassed (alas, the Nestea Award has lost much of its luster), and which ones have a truly mythical quality. Now, after over ten years of Global StarCraft II League competition, Maru vs Rogue is the culmination of all that history.

For the second time, Maru will attempt to win the GSL's most elusive, most coveted prize: The G5L. It was conceived in 2012 as the ultimate coronation piece for (Wiki)Mvp, the most dominant player of early StarCraft II. Headed into the finals of Code S Season 4 in 2012, Mvp had an unmatched four GSL championships to his name. We don't know why GSL decided that his potential fifth championship was more worthy of special commemoration than his fourth (maybe if it had been the "Global 4geOfEmpires League"), but in any case, the G5L trophy was commissioned prior to the finals.

As it turned out, this was a jinx the likes of which casters can only dream of conjuring. Not only did Mvp lose the finals to Life, the most infamous villain in StarCraft II history, but no one came close to even sniffing the G5L trophy for over six years. Until 2018, INnoVation was the only player who managed to win even three Code S titles, while Life and Zest earned two a piece. The G5L trophy came to be thought of as a pipe dream, as StarCraft II's impossible prize. And, as such, it took an impossibly skilled player to finally contend for it.

In 2018-2019, Maru ripped off an extraordinary streak of four consecutive Code S championships. It was a run of utter dominance that completely defied comparison—only one player had even won two consecutive Code S titles before: Nestea back in 2011. Over the course of a year, Maru not only won entry to the GSL pantheon, but rose to become its undisputed leader.

And, yet, the G5L has still managed to elude the GSL's greatest player. Maru's back-to-back-to-back-to-back streak was ended by a shocking implosion, with Maru suffering RO32 elimination in his campaign for a fifth straight title. The slump continued for over a year, until Maru finally rounded back into form and earned a spot in the grand finals of 2020's Code S Season 3. A new G5L trophy trophy was made for Maru, but alas, it was haunted by the same old curse. Maru was ultimately bested by TY, who was in the midst of his own late-career surge.

In 2021's GSL Season 1, Maru has earned one more shot at winning the G5L trophy. As mentioned above, Maru is already the greatest GSL player ever. There's no one left to chase—now it's all about setting records on top of records and running up the score on everyone else (greatness has no limits, nor is it subject to diminishing returns). And, in this case, perhaps ruin the record of another...

Rogue brings his own momentous accomplishment to the Code S finals. He heads into his duel with Maru with a perfect, unblemished, and incomparable 7-0 record in major tournament finals. This streak was earned not only in the GSL, but all around the world. Of these victories, only two came in lesser 'tier 2' majors in IEM Shanghai and the GSL Super Tournament. Three were earned in World Championship-tier events: BlizzCon 2017, and IEM Katowice 2018 & 2020. The remaining two triumphs came in GSL Code S.

It's the kind of accomplishment that makes one rethink all the notions of variance, luck, and whatever else goes into a 'smart' fan's understanding of StarCraft II. Instead, 7-0 leads you to believe that the physical side of the game isn't the most important one. It leads you to believe that "coin-flip" is just a term used by those who don't understand the immaterial, intangible, mental side of the game. It leads you to believe that "flipping the switch" and "willing yourself to win" aren't just trite cliches, but core abilities for the best players in the world. Or, as Jaedong so aptly put it, "winners gonna win." How else could one explain Rogue's perfect record?

It may have something to do with Rogue's mastery of best-of-sevens. His 7-0 score in finals is a subset of a longer winning streak: Rogue is 10-0 in major tournament best-of-seven's. Perhaps Rogue isn't just clutch, but he also has a particular strategic brilliance that only comes out in the most grueling form of competitive SC2. Most progamers don't just plan strategies for individual maps in a series, but try to connect those strategies as part of a larger master plan. Could Rogue be several levels above his peers in this specific type of strategizing, with the added complexity of two more maps in a best-of-seven giving him an insurmountable advantage?

Consider Rogue's history in Code S. He once bore one of the GSL's more ignominious streaks with eight straight losses in Code S quarterfinals, which are best-of-five series. But in 2019's Season 3, when Rogue was finally able to get over the quarterfinal hump and reach the best-of-seven semifinals, he ended up going all the way to the championship. Then, in 2020's Season 2, he did it again.

It seems reductive to basically imply that Rogue is a sorcerer, so let's attempt a more rational look at Rogue's grand finals success. One could argue that he was favored in all seven finals (marginally in some cases, heavily in others), with Rogue himself admitting that he was benefitting from imbalance during one specific phase of SC2. It's also quite noticeable that he almost never faced Terran in these best-of-sevens—there's at least one championship run where you could accuse him of being lucky to duck his relatively weak TvZ at the time. If we heavily simplify things and assume that Rogue was a 2:1 favorite in all of his finals, the chance of him winning them all would be around 6%. Not likely, but still enough to make the case that this 7-0 record is just a statistical fluke. However, if Rogue's finals streak survives this extreme myth-busting session with Maru, then even Rogue's harshest critics will have to admit that he really does know how to perform black magic.



Head to Head: Historically Close, Now Favoring Maru

Maru and Rogue are closely matched in their all-time head-to-head record, with Maru holding a narrow lead of 10-8 in matches with a 26-24 map score. But what if one were to indulge in a bit of creative record-keeping and only consider matches after Rogue became, you know, Rogue? Narrow the range down to matches starting in 2017, the year when Rogue ascended out of mediocrity to win BlizzCon, and our two finalists are actually dead even at 6-6 in matches and 17-17 in maps.

In contrast to this historical parity, recent form suggests Maru is the heavy favorite with Aligulac.com's predictive formula giving Maru a 74.19% chance to win. Aligulac.com rating isn't a perfect metric, but there's presently a huge gap between Maru (3213) and Rogue's (2862) ratings on their respective sides of the Terran vs. Zerg match-up. A four-hundred point gap—especially between players in the same competitive region—is almost certainly meaningful.

TL.net user opinions line up closely with Aligulac.com's projection, with Maru having a 216 to 94 lead in Liquibets at the time of writing. Those who wager their real-life money instead TL.net points give Maru a slightly lesser chance of winning, with the odds implying he has around a 66% chance to take the championship (an unspecified gambling website was used as a reference).

The eye-test generally supports Maru as well. He obliterated Rogue in their last major match, winning in a 3-0 sweep in the quarterfinals of IEM Katowice 2021. Rogue was completely helpless in the series, not even looking like a worthy warm-up opponent as Maru advanced into a semifinal match with Reynor. Though Maru ended up losing to the Italian Prodigy 2-3, it was one of those rare, closely-fought series where even the loser managed to enhance their reputation.

Still, the outlook isn't entirely rosy for Maru. Something went horribly wrong for him in this season's qualifiers, where the underdog Armani handed him a stunning 0-2 defeat. Also, Maru's seemingly invincible turtle stance was busted by Solar in the RO16, with the KaiZi Gaming player able to snowball a brief lapse in Maru's defense into a victory. Maru adjusted and came back to win the series 2-1, but Maru's aura of late-game invulnerability was somewhat diminished.

Meanwhile, Rogue enters the finals after struggling through a tough best-of-seven against Dream. It seemed like Rogue was knocked off balance by Dream's cheesy approach to the series, and he very nearly lost game seven to Dream's Bunker-rush before capitalizing on his opponent's error. The glass-half full view is that it was a demonstration of Rogue's clutchness—in a high pressure situation, sometimes it's good enough to simply not make mistakes and wait for your opponent to lose their composure. But on the flip side, one has to wonder what would have happened if Rogue had faced an opponent who was more even-keeled, and wasn't playing in their first major best-of-seven in years. Rogue had professed his confidence in TvZ prior to his series with Dream, saying his practice had gone well. But after going through seven maps of stressful mind-games with Dream, he seemed to do a 180 on the match-up in the post-match interview.

Amusingly enough, Maru might be Rogue's biggest believer headed into the finals. He's consistently called Rogue the best Zerg in the world for over a year now, and they still seem to practice together regularly after Jin Air's disbandment. Of course, when you consider Maru's humility and history of lavishing praise on his Jin Air teammates, you have to take his public comments on Rogue with some giant grains of salt.

Prediction: We Wish It Was Too Close To Call

While this is a colossal clash in terms of historical stakes, there are many indicators suggesting we'll end up with the 'traditional' one-sided GSL final. To make a case for Rogue, you have to believe in the mystique of his 7-0 record in finals over the 70:30 chance being given to Maru by both fans and predictive metrics. You have to have absolute faith in the fact that Rogue has never choked away a final due to his own errors, while irrationally focusing on Maru's absolute worst mistakes (like getting supply-blocked on his second depot during a BlizzCon match) and ignoring all the matches where he pulled out a clutch victory. You have to look at the cheesy nature of the two semifinal series, and believe that Rogue will manage to out-predict Maru and secure several build order victories (never mind that Rogue basically went 50/50 with a lesser Terran in Dream).

There's something irresistibly compelling about the narrative-based, gut-feeling argument for Rogue. It channels the same kind of emotions that made fans believe that summer would magically bring championships for TaeJa, that Has always had the chance of stealing an upset, or that Serral somehow wouldn't be able to overcome the aura of competing in GSL Code S. At the same time, there's something equally emotionally compelling about Maru finally taking his just due, not just inheriting Mvp's legacy but surpassing it, and further cementing his legacy as the best GSL player ever. Even in the realm of mythos, Rogue can't seem to find an advantage.

When I add it all up, I have no choice but to predict a victory for Maru in the finals. And while it would be a shame to lose StarCraft II's most remarkable streak, it would be a worthy sacrifice to finally award the G5L.

Prediction: Maru 4 - 2 Rogue




Credits and acknowledgements

Writer: Wax
Images: AfreecaTV
Records and Statistics: Aligulac.com and Liquipedia

Facebook Twitter Reddit
TL+ Member
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4955 Posts
May 05 2021 12:55 GMT
#2
beautiful write up wax. thanks
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
tommey.liang
Profile Joined November 2020
United States363 Posts
May 05 2021 13:09 GMT
#3
I'm already predicting for Maru to win in six games, or Rogue in seven games. It'll be tough to call.
FF, KH, Persona, Uncharted, Yakuza | Porter, Illenium, MitiS, Dabin, Seven Lions, Petit Biscuit | Diablo II, SC2 | Pho, sushi, tacos
FCHK
Profile Joined August 2020
202 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-05-05 13:50:23
May 05 2021 13:44 GMT
#4
Rogue's ZvT rating is 2946

I think Maru is going to win, sure as hell hope he does
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19299 Posts
May 05 2021 13:45 GMT
#5
It's not just the Bo7 Record that Rogue has going for him, it's also the G5L curse working against Maru. That's a loot of good juju going in Rogue's direction.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
rickzou
Profile Joined May 2019
46 Posts
May 05 2021 14:22 GMT
#6
either 4:3 or 3:4
Noa Greenini
Profile Joined April 2015
265 Posts
May 05 2021 14:47 GMT
#7
Good stuff! I'm cheering for Maru but what I really want is a good match!
Noa Greenini looks like the superior LR poster - Charoisaur 04/05/2019 (Serral vs Showtime match)
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13322 Posts
May 05 2021 14:56 GMT
#8
On May 05 2021 22:45 BisuDagger wrote:
It's not just the Bo7 Record that Rogue has going for him, it's also the G5L curse working against Maru. That's a loot of good juju going in Rogue's direction.

And now TL has predicted Maru to win as well.
Only missing the Artosis curse
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
Swisslink
Profile Joined March 2011
2954 Posts
May 05 2021 15:13 GMT
#9
I could see that series going so many ways, and none of them would leave me surprised.

- 4:3 after 7 great games, victory for either sides
- 4:3 after 7 terrible clown fiesta games, victory for either side
- 4:0 after 4 awesome games by one player, victory for either side
- 4:0 after 4 terrible games (cheeses, bullshit, etc), victory for either side

The matchup stats speak for Maru, but with Rogue, you never know how the series is going to turn out.
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-05-05 15:41:19
May 05 2021 15:36 GMT
#10
Not looking great for Rogue, he didn't really win his RO8 and RO4 matches, he ''survived'' them. I think this is the first Rogue final where it doesn't look like he is in his killer mode.
But then again he is in his comfort zone of eliminating fan favorites and killing hype.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
swarminfestor
Profile Joined September 2017
Malaysia2449 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-05-05 15:52:26
May 05 2021 15:42 GMT
#11
Please Artosis, predicting Maru to win.
Rogue & Maru fan boy. ^^
MarianoSC2
Profile Joined June 2015
Slovakia1855 Posts
May 05 2021 15:44 GMT
#12
Rooting for Maru to get that G5L.
But I have this weird feeling, and it gets even stronger because of how everyone is expecting Maru to win, that Rogue is just going to stomp him and the finals will suck.

Head: Rogue - 4:1
Heart: Maru 4:3 after an epic series
Top 11: Rogue, Maru, Inno, Zest, Life, sOs, Stats, Dark, soO, Mvp, Classic/Trap/MC/Rain
swarminfestor
Profile Joined September 2017
Malaysia2449 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-05-05 16:01:34
May 05 2021 15:50 GMT
#13
On May 06 2021 00:36 Morbidius wrote:
Not looking great for Rogue, he didn't really win his RO8 and RO4 matches, he ''survived'' them. I think this is the first Rogue final where it doesn't look like he is in his killer mode.
But then again he is in his comfort zone of eliminating fan favorites and killing hype.


I thought the similar thing has happened in Ro8 GSL Code S 2019 when he just "barely" survive against Zest before ended up destroying Dark and Trap. But, I agreed this was the first time I witnessed him just barely survived in Bo7 matches before the final.
Rogue & Maru fan boy. ^^
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
May 05 2021 15:54 GMT
#14
Maru is playing much better than Rogue. Rogue shouldn't have even gone past Zest in the ro8 and barely scraped by Dream in the ro4.

But last time he won GSL it was exactly the same, even with a 3-2 comeback against Zest in the quarterfinal. Plus it's a bo7 and all, Rogue wins easily.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
swarminfestor
Profile Joined September 2017
Malaysia2449 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-05-05 15:58:12
May 05 2021 15:56 GMT
#15
However, if Rogue's finals streak survives this extreme myth-busting session with Maru, then even Rogue's harshest critics will have to admit that he really does know how to perform black magic.


Unrelated post: where was Mizenahur? It has been long time since he wrote the last article in Tl.net.
Rogue & Maru fan boy. ^^
Ciaus_Dronu
Profile Joined June 2017
South Africa1848 Posts
May 05 2021 17:35 GMT
#16
Heart: Rogue wins in a good series.

Head: This will be an atrocious to watch 4-1 in favor of Maru.
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12905 Posts
May 05 2021 17:57 GMT
#17
I am really hyped for this match but also kinda scared, Rogue always end up killing fan (or Terran fans) favorites in high stakes matches. Not that much in GSL, but mostly in BlizzCon and IEMs...
Maru should be the superior player but he respects Rogue a bit too much so it might not matter...
He still has a better shot at finally claiming G5L than when he was against TY in 2020, imo.
WriterMaru
JJH777
Profile Joined January 2011
United States4414 Posts
May 05 2021 18:33 GMT
#18
I want Maru to finally get the G5L but I also want Rogue to keep his offline bo7 streak. Hard to choose who to root for.
unoriginalname
Profile Joined November 2010
England380 Posts
May 05 2021 21:04 GMT
#19
I'm rooting for Maru again, but watching his games against Solar, and even his amount of mistakes on 2 of the 3 first games against Trap has got me a little bit worried. However, Rogue's ZvT hasn't been so convincing recently either.

I would like to see Maru's late-late game (even better if a Nuke decides the match). Though from watching Clem play recently and looking at Clem's ZvT winrate, I'm not sure how effective the strategy to turtle still is.
Hmmm
Edpayasugo
Profile Joined April 2013
United Kingdom2216 Posts
May 05 2021 21:56 GMT
#20
Seems bizarre to have this on a Thursday
FlaSh MMA INnoVation FanTaSy MKP TY Ryung | soO Dark Rogue | HuK PartinG Stork State
Niravroh
Profile Joined August 2020
165 Posts
May 05 2021 23:07 GMT
#21
On May 06 2021 06:56 Edpayasugo wrote:
Seems bizarre to have this on a Thursday


I really miss the old gsl schedule. They used to be 2:30 am Wednesday night and then 9:00 pm friday night here in california. Now that they're both at 2:30 am I've found myself missing a lot more days I would have normally watched live.
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-05-05 23:38:55
May 05 2021 23:21 GMT
#22
On May 06 2021 06:56 Edpayasugo wrote:
Seems bizarre to have this on a Thursday


Your comment just saved me, I was sure it was next weekend.

Time to wake up at 5 am!

This feel like the first unmissable GSL final in a while, I'm super hype.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
TheFish7
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States2824 Posts
May 05 2021 23:51 GMT
#23
I feel like this is closer to a 50-50 chance than the betting odds would imply!
~ ~ <°)))><~ ~ ~
Topin
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Peru10093 Posts
May 06 2021 00:36 GMT
#24
after the comeback vs Trap i cant see Maru losing. thanks for the preview
i would define my style between a mix of ByuN, Maru and MKP
uselless
Profile Joined April 2021
93 Posts
May 06 2021 01:48 GMT
#25
I have the feeling Maru will lose, but I just have to support my boy It feels like he always comes up short in clutch moments but I guess that's fan bias
maru :D
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3437 Posts
May 06 2021 04:03 GMT
#26
On May 06 2021 06:04 unoriginalname wrote:
I'm rooting for Maru again, but watching his games against Solar, and even his amount of mistakes on 2 of the 3 first games against Trap has got me a little bit worried. However, Rogue's ZvT hasn't been so convincing recently either.

I would like to see Maru's late-late game (even better if a Nuke decides the match). Though from watching Clem play recently and looking at Clem's ZvT winrate, I'm not sure how effective the strategy to turtle still is.

I dont think Rogue himself is a great lategame player neither, most of his victory was through early pressure and back-door tactics like runby, Nydus and Drop OV. So late-game might be the way to go for Maru if he doesnt die early, although I still prefer a couple of games with the good old Terran push on 3-4 base.
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10366 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-05-06 07:16:31
May 06 2021 07:10 GMT
#27
Nice write up!
I agree, Rogue going 3-4 to Dream is pretty worrying. But he does have some clutch factor, both against Zest and Maru.

I think Maru will win too, but I'll be very happy with whoever wins. I just hope we see some good games (or at least 1 really good one). If it comes down to G7 then you KNOW it can only end one way, the way any other legendary series with a legendary Terran winning does: some form of marine/bunker/scv all-in.

By the way, maybe it's just for the purposes of hype of the article, but I often see people say that MVP has 4 GSL titles. I don't feel this is accurate at all. He won 3 Code S's, and he won 1 GSL "world championship", but what was that tournament really? It was a 16 person invitational where 8 of them were foreigners. It wasn't the equivalent of IEM Katowice or Blizzcon World Championship. Nothing close. It was really just GSL vs the World at the time. Which most consider to be less than a GSL Super Tournament, which is also considered (slightly) less than a Code S.

I never see people count GSL vs the World or GSL Super Tournament championships when they see how close people are to winning the G5L. While it makes sense to count vs the World and Super wins as "GSL title wins", usually in the context of winning "GSL championships" people are referring only to Code S. If they won any Super Tournaments they are mentioned separately, and same with vs the World wins. No one says that Serral has 2 GSL championships for example. GSL titles sure, but not "GSL [Code S] championships".

If non-Code S tournament wins counted as "GSL wins", then we'd already be saying that Maru has won 5 GSLs, right?
(This has bothered me since forever, MVP has only ever won 3 Code S same as Nestea, but even back then people said that he won 4 GSLs as if the 16 person invitational with half of them being foreigners really meant much).

I find it weird that GSL also counted MVP's "4th GSL win" as a GSL that counted towards the G5L. They aren't counting Maru's Super win as a GSL that counts towards the G5L. It doesn't make sense to me, other than they were hyping up MVP at the time and wanted to count it, but after his time passed they realized they should only count Code S towards it.
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
swarminfestor
Profile Joined September 2017
Malaysia2449 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-05-06 07:23:10
May 06 2021 07:22 GMT
#28
On May 06 2021 16:10 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Nice write up!
I agree, Rogue going 3-4 to Dream is pretty worrying. But he does have some clutch factor, both against Zest and Maru.

I think Maru will win too, but I'll be very happy with whoever wins. I just hope we see some good games (or at least 1 really good one). If it comes down to G7 then you KNOW it can only end one way, the way any other legendary series with a legendary Terran winning does: some form of marine/bunker/scv all-in.

By the way, maybe it's just for the purposes of hype of the article, but I often see people say that MVP has 4 GSL titles. I don't feel this is accurate at all. He won 3 Code S's, and he won 1 GSL "world championship", but what was that tournament really? It was a 16 person invitational where 8 of them were foreigners. It wasn't the equivalent of IEM Katowice or Blizzcon World Championship. Nothing close. It was really just GSL vs the World at the time. Which most consider to be less than a GSL Super Tournament, which is also considered (slightly) less than a Code S.

I don't see anyone else count GSL vs the World or GSL Super Tournament championships when they see how close people are to winning the G5L. While "GSL Championships" does make enough sense to include Super and vs the World wins in a casual sense, when they count "GSL Championships" they usually refer to Code S championships, and if they have any Super Tournament wins they mention them separately.

If non-Code S tournament wins counted as "GSL wins", then we'd already be saying that Maru has won 5 GSLs, right?
(This has bothered me since forever, MVP has only ever won 3 Code S same as Nestea, but even back then people said that he won 4 GSLs as if the 16 person invitational with half of them being foreigners really meant much).


This could be the reason why some foreigner fans suddenly adding Serral as two-times GSL champions despite not taking a part in Code S. By subtracting GSL vs World titles from Inno, MVP, Serral, we ended up with three 3 GSL title for Innovation, 3 for MVP, and zero for Serral.
Rogue & Maru fan boy. ^^
fLyiNgDroNe
Profile Joined September 2005
Belgium4028 Posts
May 06 2021 08:04 GMT
#29
gotta go with my boy Rogue in this one. Flawless finals record must prevail.
Drone is a way of living
Mannekino
Profile Joined December 2011
Netherlands15 Posts
May 06 2021 08:09 GMT
#30
Great read, thanks for the effort!
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10366 Posts
May 06 2021 08:31 GMT
#31
On May 06 2021 16:22 swarminfestor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2021 16:10 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Nice write up!
I agree, Rogue going 3-4 to Dream is pretty worrying. But he does have some clutch factor, both against Zest and Maru.

I think Maru will win too, but I'll be very happy with whoever wins. I just hope we see some good games (or at least 1 really good one). If it comes down to G7 then you KNOW it can only end one way, the way any other legendary series with a legendary Terran winning does: some form of marine/bunker/scv all-in.

By the way, maybe it's just for the purposes of hype of the article, but I often see people say that MVP has 4 GSL titles. I don't feel this is accurate at all. He won 3 Code S's, and he won 1 GSL "world championship", but what was that tournament really? It was a 16 person invitational where 8 of them were foreigners. It wasn't the equivalent of IEM Katowice or Blizzcon World Championship. Nothing close. It was really just GSL vs the World at the time. Which most consider to be less than a GSL Super Tournament, which is also considered (slightly) less than a Code S.

I don't see anyone else count GSL vs the World or GSL Super Tournament championships when they see how close people are to winning the G5L. While "GSL Championships" does make enough sense to include Super and vs the World wins in a casual sense, when they count "GSL Championships" they usually refer to Code S championships, and if they have any Super Tournament wins they mention them separately.

If non-Code S tournament wins counted as "GSL wins", then we'd already be saying that Maru has won 5 GSLs, right?
(This has bothered me since forever, MVP has only ever won 3 Code S same as Nestea, but even back then people said that he won 4 GSLs as if the 16 person invitational with half of them being foreigners really meant much).


This could be the reason why some foreigner fans suddenly adding Serral as two-times GSL champions despite not taking a part in Code S. By subtracting GSL vs World titles from Inno, MVP, Serral, we ended up with three 3 GSL title for Innovation, 3 for MVP, and zero for Serral.


Yeah, I wouldn't blame them since there are people counting MVP's Vs the World win as a Code S win for almost a decade now. It's inconsistent. Personally my ranking of greatest players is already Maru > Innovation > MVP/Rogue. I think most would find that pretty agreeable. Rogue could be slightly below or above MVP depending on how you look at it, but I think him winning this Code S would cement him more as being above MVP with a decent argument for tied for #2 with Inno or maybe even above Inno. (IMO main thing holding Rogue back from being #2 if he wins this Code S is if you consider/factor in LotV being a less competitive era in terms of the pro scene being smaller).

Of course though there is an OK argument for MVP to still be #2 or #1 just because the tournaments he won were within a relatively small period when the competition was very high. But in terms of GSL, Maru won 4 Code S and 1 Super and was also super dominant for 1.5 years (4 Code S in a row, really?!) so he's a clear tier higher than MVP for me. Innovation matches MVP's 3 Code S and 1 Vs the World title, but he also has a WCS World Championship title, so he's clearly above MVP for me too. (Even if he wasn't super dominant in a short period, he was relatively dominant over large periods of time).
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
atchosvk
Profile Joined April 2018
55 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-05-06 14:40:46
May 06 2021 11:25 GMT
#32
+ Show Spoiler +
Trash finals.. Abusive use of roach ravagers all in and Maru completely clueless and making tons of mistake.. That game 5 with the slow banelings running into the 3rd base.. man come on.. GSL is a joke.. Reynor, Serral and Clem would easily take that trophy.


User was warned for this post
CMS_Flash
Profile Joined October 2013
Hong Kong47 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-05-06 14:42:05
May 06 2021 11:44 GMT
#33
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 05 2021 22:09 tommey.liang wrote:
I'm already predicting for Maru to win in six games, or Rogue in seven games. It'll be tough to call.


Reality: Rogue in 5. Damn, he was too strong.
My life for Tarsonis.
tommey.liang
Profile Joined November 2020
United States363 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-05-06 14:42:10
May 06 2021 12:54 GMT
#34
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 06 2021 20:44 CMS_Flash wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2021 22:09 tommey.liang wrote:
I'm already predicting for Maru to win in six games, or Rogue in seven games. It'll be tough to call.


Reality: Rogue in 5. Damn, he was too strong.


Indeed. He flipped the switch and went into killer-instinct mode.

Also I do wonder what happened with Maru's eyes/thought process with those slow banes killing a dozen+ SCVs at his third in game five. Did he really not notice all those units on his minimap? Hmm.
FF, KH, Persona, Uncharted, Yakuza | Porter, Illenium, MitiS, Dabin, Seven Lions, Petit Biscuit | Diablo II, SC2 | Pho, sushi, tacos
iloveoof
Profile Joined July 2019
12 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-05-06 13:21:15
May 06 2021 13:18 GMT
#35
.
Neuling
Profile Joined October 2013
Germany45 Posts
May 06 2021 13:26 GMT
#36
I really wonder if we will ever see a Rogue finals that isn't trash. :D
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12905 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-05-06 14:42:28
May 06 2021 13:43 GMT
#37
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 06 2021 20:25 atchosvk wrote:
Trash finals.. Abusive use of roach ravagers all in and Maru completely clueless and making tons of mistake.. That game 5 with the slow banelings running into the 3rd base.. man come on.. GSL is a joke.. Reynor, Serral and Clem would easily take that trophy.

Reynor couldn’t even reach ro8...
He might have a shot since more and more top Koreans go to the military but meh.
WriterMaru
yepjan
Profile Joined February 2021
20 Posts
May 06 2021 13:58 GMT
#38
On May 06 2021 22:43 Poopi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2021 20:25 atchosvk wrote:
Trash finals.. Abusive use of roach ravagers all in and Maru completely clueless and making tons of mistake.. That game 5 with the slow banelings running into the 3rd base.. man come on.. GSL is a joke.. Reynor, Serral and Clem would easily take that trophy.

Reynor couldn’t even reach ro8...
He might have a shot since more and more top Koreans go to the military but meh.



lmao that was 100 years ago, now it would be easy
swarminfestor
Profile Joined September 2017
Malaysia2449 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-05-06 14:16:22
May 06 2021 14:13 GMT
#39
On May 06 2021 22:58 yepjan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2021 22:43 Poopi wrote:
On May 06 2021 20:25 atchosvk wrote:
Trash finals.. Abusive use of roach ravagers all in and Maru completely clueless and making tons of mistake.. That game 5 with the slow banelings running into the 3rd base.. man come on.. GSL is a joke.. Reynor, Serral and Clem would easily take that trophy.

Reynor couldn’t even reach ro8...
He might have a shot since more and more top Koreans go to the military but meh.



lmao that was 100 years ago, now it would be easy


Who knows. GSL is only kind of tournament where players get to choose who they want play against with before reaching the Ro8. Even Maru, Rogue and TY got easily stomped and kicked out during Ro.32/Ro24 when they are in the peak of their performances. You may not imagine Clem / Reynor can be kicked out by the players like Bunny or Patience or Zoun, or even Scarlett or Special in the same group they are playing with.


Rogue & Maru fan boy. ^^
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19299 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-05-06 14:41:48
May 06 2021 14:41 GMT
#40
Do we really need to have a reminder that this is a Preview thread and not a Results thread?
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Aeceus
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom1278 Posts
May 07 2021 14:34 GMT
#41
Maybe preview threads should be locked an hour before the finals to avoid spoilers cause people clearly can't help but type here.
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 43m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 547
IndyStarCraft 141
EmSc Tv 19
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 9647
Calm 2529
Rain 1713
Dewaltoss 110
HiyA 61
yabsab 34
hero 34
sas.Sziky 33
Backho 33
scan(afreeca) 26
[ Show more ]
Shine 11
JulyZerg 10
Dota 2
qojqva3072
Counter-Strike
fl0m1085
byalli347
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu1597
Khaldor99
Other Games
Grubby3769
FrodaN3276
DeMusliM350
Pyrionflax122
ArmadaUGS92
C9.Mang083
QueenE74
Trikslyr54
ZombieGrub12
Organizations
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 19
EmSc2Tv 19
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 4
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix13
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2900
• WagamamaTV721
League of Legends
• Nemesis2746
• TFBlade706
Other Games
• imaqtpie986
• Shiphtur264
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2h 43m
RSL Revival
11h 13m
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Reynor
Maru vs SHIN
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
OSC
16h 43m
BSL: GosuLeague
1d
RSL Revival
1d 11h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 15h
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
IPSL
2 days
Julia vs Artosis
JDConan vs DragOn
RSL Revival
3 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
3 days
IPSL
3 days
StRyKeR vs OldBoy
Sziky vs Tarson
Replay Cast
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-16
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.