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This is my first post here.
First i just wanted to say that I love sc2, it is the ONLY game that i truly love and even though i am frustrate from time to time, it still holds my heart in a tight grip.
One thing I am a bit surprised by is that many people recently have blocked any comments after the game.
After I (finally!) have been over my ladder anxiety and played a lot of games I have to ask you if people have a problem with BM etc after game?
I ask this because I have played many games recently and some have been somewhat bm during the games BUT those who actually allowed comments afterwards have always ended up being quite nice and giving some advice (some after a few more rude remarks  but still! ).
So, my feeling now is that most people in sc2, even though they are slightly cocky and slightly bm, is actually really helpful if you actually ask them.
Have i just been lucky to receive good and helpful feedback from other players or is it a general thing that people continue being rude and annoying?
Why do people block other so easily? Is a comment/question after the game that horrible? are people oversensitive?
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Northern Ireland25107 Posts
It’s difficult to really say when I have no idea what constitutes ‘somewhat BM’ from your end.
Personally I’m too old to be bothered with puerile shit, so I’ll block someone being a prick in game, but I’m absolutely fine with a bit of frustration being expressed or whatever, so a comment in that spirit is fine.
If there’s a bit of wit in BM and it’s not spamming stuff about my mother I can quite enjoy laughing at it and would be happy to give someone advice after a game or whatever.
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Canada8989 Posts
Most people are nice, and usually those who are BM are just angry about balance or cheese and are generally fairly nice once they calm down, it's not always the best time to message them after a loss tho.
But once in a while you get some bizarre troglodyte who open the game by saying they want to cut your mom in pieces and feed her to their dog or something like that.
You can find some of the ladder finest work here: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/175960-awesome-confusing-sc2-bm
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its not that serious.
once i had a dude sending me messages for about an hour. it was super creepy.
it is pretty common but nah its not that serious.
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Norway28654 Posts
Honestly think being bmed at the end of the game is really funny and the more excessive it is, the more hilarious. Guess if some guy was digging out my private information and shit (which would be possible in my case) I'd start finding it annoying at some point.
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Personally I find BM to be very rare, I play around Diamond level and I get BM in less than 1/10 games, usually pretty mild too. It happens like 1/30 that you get someone that is telling you really bad stuff. In general I feel the community is really nice in SC2, surprisingly so seeing how stressful the 1v1 ladder experience can be. Me myself I never start BM and always say gl hf and gg wp if I lost, for me its just part of the game like how karate fighters bow before a fight :p
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First things I do in a game after building a worker:
1) Type "gl hf"
2) Mute my opponent
There is nothing they can say that is going to interest me, and I'm not playing to be social. Nor am I playing to help you, I am playing to help myself.
You get a free lesson if you lose, I get a free one if I lose.
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Dominican Republic614 Posts
it depends how old are you and your mentality toward that, i just enjoy people BM me because i know i played better than then.
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On February 23 2020 06:40 Wombat_NI wrote:
It’s difficult to really say when I have no idea what constitutes ‘somewhat BM’ from your end.
Personally I’m too old to be bothered with puerile shit, so I’ll block someone being a prick in game, but I’m absolutely fine with a bit of frustration being expressed or whatever, so a comment in that spirit is fine.
If there’s a bit of wit in BM and it’s not spamming stuff about my mother I can quite enjoy laughing at it and would be happy to give someone advice after a game or whatever.
For me, the "slight bm" have been in the line of "leave the game now you fucking idiot" but some have been ranting worse stuff for sure. I think I am rather chill about comments like that so I tend to not care hence my asking my opponent questions even though they apparantly think I have played so bad i should kill myself or won because of my blatant cheating which qualify me for death penalty... BUT those are not that frequent.
Maybe there is quite a lot of people that are mature that plays which "smooths out" the behaviour from other, more immature, players.
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On February 23 2020 08:12 BronzeKnee wrote:
First things I do in a game after building a worker:
1) Type "gl hf"
2) Mute my opponent
There is nothing they can say that is going to interest me, and I'm not playing to be social. Nor am I playing to help you, I am playing to help myself.
You get a free lesson if you lose, I get a free one if I lose.
yeah ofc i get your point. But if you are not a top GM player i imagine most people can actually learn stuff from the opponent.
Watching the replay is good and analysing the game yourself. But i find a direct feedback can give you additional knowledge to that analysis. And, if you are not top GM, you are most likely not playing that opponent that often, and not in very important games...so you have very little to loose.
But to each his own.
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On February 23 2020 08:49 aringadingding wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2020 06:40 Wombat_NI wrote:
It’s difficult to really say when I have no idea what constitutes ‘somewhat BM’ from your end.
Personally I’m too old to be bothered with puerile shit, so I’ll block someone being a prick in game, but I’m absolutely fine with a bit of frustration being expressed or whatever, so a comment in that spirit is fine.
If there’s a bit of wit in BM and it’s not spamming stuff about my mother I can quite enjoy laughing at it and would be happy to give someone advice after a game or whatever. For me, the "slight bm" have been in the line of "leave the game now you fucking idiot" but some have been ranting worse stuff for sure. I think I am rather chill about comments like that so I tend to not care hence my asking my opponent questions even though they apparantly think I have played so bad i should kill myself or won because of my blatant cheating which qualify me for death penalty... BUT those are not that frequent. Maybe there is quite a lot of people that are mature that plays which "smooths out" the behaviour from other, more immature, players.
My feeling in general is that immature people that would rage like that have a harder time to keep up playing sc2 over a long period of time. Its easier playing games like battleground games that are heavy luck based in comparison and team games like mobas where you can always project out your feelings of failure on others and blame your team.
Starcraft takes most of that away in a hyper competitive 1v1 game where you cant blame anyone but yourself. If you cant handle the emotional distress of failure there are probably better games out there for you to play than SC2.
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On February 23 2020 08:54 aringadingding wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2020 08:12 BronzeKnee wrote:
First things I do in a game after building a worker:
1) Type "gl hf"
2) Mute my opponent
There is nothing they can say that is going to interest me, and I'm not playing to be social. Nor am I playing to help you, I am playing to help myself.
You get a free lesson if you lose, I get a free one if I lose. yeah ofc i get your point. But if you are not a top GM player i imagine most people can actually learn stuff from the opponent. Watching the replay is good and analysing the game yourself. But i find a direct feedback can give you additional knowledge to that analysis. And, if you are not top GM, you are most likely not playing that opponent that often, and not in very important games...so you have very little to loose. But to each his own.
Well to be honest if you are in a low league chances are your opponent dont really know your mistakes either. They might have an opinion what you could do better but its hard to know if its actually good advice. Always fun to have a chat with your opponent just be careful about trusting that advice too much.
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On February 23 2020 08:57 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2020 08:49 aringadingding wrote:On February 23 2020 06:40 Wombat_NI wrote:
It’s difficult to really say when I have no idea what constitutes ‘somewhat BM’ from your end.
Personally I’m too old to be bothered with puerile shit, so I’ll block someone being a prick in game, but I’m absolutely fine with a bit of frustration being expressed or whatever, so a comment in that spirit is fine.
If there’s a bit of wit in BM and it’s not spamming stuff about my mother I can quite enjoy laughing at it and would be happy to give someone advice after a game or whatever. For me, the "slight bm" have been in the line of "leave the game now you fucking idiot" but some have been ranting worse stuff for sure. I think I am rather chill about comments like that so I tend to not care hence my asking my opponent questions even though they apparantly think I have played so bad i should kill myself or won because of my blatant cheating which qualify me for death penalty... BUT those are not that frequent. Maybe there is quite a lot of people that are mature that plays which "smooths out" the behaviour from other, more immature, players. My feeling in general is that immature people that would rage like that have a harder time to keep up playing sc2 over a long period of time. Its easier playing games like battleground games that are heavy luck based in comparison and team games like mobas where you can always project out your feelings of failure on others and blame your team. Starcraft takes most of that away in a hyper competitive 1v1 game where you cant blame anyone but yourself. If you cant handle the emotional distress of failure there are probably better games out there for you to play than SC2.
yeah, thats a very good point!
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On February 23 2020 08:59 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2020 08:54 aringadingding wrote:On February 23 2020 08:12 BronzeKnee wrote:
First things I do in a game after building a worker:
1) Type "gl hf"
2) Mute my opponent
There is nothing they can say that is going to interest me, and I'm not playing to be social. Nor am I playing to help you, I am playing to help myself.
You get a free lesson if you lose, I get a free one if I lose. yeah ofc i get your point. But if you are not a top GM player i imagine most people can actually learn stuff from the opponent. Watching the replay is good and analysing the game yourself. But i find a direct feedback can give you additional knowledge to that analysis. And, if you are not top GM, you are most likely not playing that opponent that often, and not in very important games...so you have very little to loose. But to each his own. Well to be honest if you are in a low league chances are your opponent dont really know your mistakes either. They might have an opinion what you could do better but its hard to know if its actually good advice. Always fun to have a chat with your opponent just be careful about trusting that advice too much.
A good point as well. But i think most people realize that if they play in diamond or plat for example they doestn know everything, nor their opponents. But the advice/help can be answering the question "why did you go for that attack at that time" and they answer.... then its just information regarding that and not a "truth", so your point is very good. If you ask someone something after a game then its good to know WHY you ask and not a general "what a good strat" or "how should i play" etc
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Northern Ireland25107 Posts
On February 23 2020 08:49 aringadingding wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2020 06:40 Wombat_NI wrote:
It’s difficult to really say when I have no idea what constitutes ‘somewhat BM’ from your end.
Personally I’m too old to be bothered with puerile shit, so I’ll block someone being a prick in game, but I’m absolutely fine with a bit of frustration being expressed or whatever, so a comment in that spirit is fine.
If there’s a bit of wit in BM and it’s not spamming stuff about my mother I can quite enjoy laughing at it and would be happy to give someone advice after a game or whatever. For me, the "slight bm" have been in the line of "leave the game now you fucking idiot" but some have been ranting worse stuff for sure. I think I am rather chill about comments like that so I tend to not care hence my asking my opponent questions even though they apparantly think I have played so bad i should kill myself or won because of my blatant cheating which qualify me for death penalty... BUT those are not that frequent. Maybe there is quite a lot of people that are mature that plays which "smooths out" the behaviour from other, more immature, players.
Ah that seems reasonable enough to me.
I’ve had games where I’ve tried to stage a miraculous comeback and obviously am dead and the guy/girl says ‘just fucking leave’ and that kind of thing is fine to me, I’ve been relying on a miracle comeback that is super unlikely and kind of wasting their time.
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One of the main reasons why I used to cannon rush 100% of the time from silver to master was because of reading rage comments from my opponents. It's basically 30% of the fun of cannon rushing. I don't just think BM is okay, I welcome it. Seeing them try to friend or party up with me so that they can rage at me is always amusing.
Starcraft builds character in so many ways.
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on NA, around ~4000-5000 MMR, BM is endemic and horrifically toxic. i never encounter anyone who's friendly. from what i can tell normal people just don't talk at all. some people "GL HF," but the vast majority of them are still rude if they lose
i don't count "ragequits" or little salty comments as BM either, i'm talking about people spewing deeply personal insults for 5+ straight minutes after the game. it's incredibly common. i don't know where these people come from or why they play this game
the BM itself isn't upsetting, but it is pretty annoying that you can't be social or have normal human conversations on ladder with these nutjobs. last time i laddered i asked someone if they had any advice as i was losing and they had a meltdown about how i was "weak and lazy" because i asked for advice
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I seldom run into BM anymore. Most of the time if people rage, it's at the game more than at me (balance whining or stuff like that). It's almost never personal attacks anymore. Not like the old days where it was frequent, especially from cheesers or whoever. Though I don't go out of my way to strike up conversations with people. Just glhf and gg.
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On February 23 2020 05:52 aringadingding wrote:This is my first post here. First i just wanted to say that I love sc2, it is the ONLY game that i truly love and even though i am frustrate from time to time, it still holds my heart in a tight grip. One thing I am a bit surprised by is that many people recently have blocked any comments after the game. After I (finally!) have been over my ladder anxiety and played a lot of games I have to ask you if people have a problem with BM etc after game? I ask this because I have played many games recently and some have been somewhat bm during the games BUT those who actually allowed comments afterwards have always ended up being quite nice and giving some advice (some after a few more rude remarks but still! ). So, my feeling now is that most people in sc2, even though they are slightly cocky and slightly bm, is actually really helpful if you actually ask them. Have i just been lucky to receive good and helpful feedback from other players or is it a general thing that people continue being rude and annoying? Why do people block other so easily? Is a comment/question after the game that horrible? are people oversensitive?
Are you referring also to people that don't accept whispers from those not on their friends list?
And is blocking someone really that annoying and serious?
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I love it when people BM me after a loss. Makes the game much more enjoyable than a boring GG. It is also a good way to learn languages, I now know how to insult people in English, French, Spanish, Russian, German and Italian.
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On February 23 2020 14:57 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2020 05:52 aringadingding wrote:This is my first post here. First i just wanted to say that I love sc2, it is the ONLY game that i truly love and even though i am frustrate from time to time, it still holds my heart in a tight grip. One thing I am a bit surprised by is that many people recently have blocked any comments after the game. After I (finally!) have been over my ladder anxiety and played a lot of games I have to ask you if people have a problem with BM etc after game? I ask this because I have played many games recently and some have been somewhat bm during the games BUT those who actually allowed comments afterwards have always ended up being quite nice and giving some advice (some after a few more rude remarks but still! ). So, my feeling now is that most people in sc2, even though they are slightly cocky and slightly bm, is actually really helpful if you actually ask them. Have i just been lucky to receive good and helpful feedback from other players or is it a general thing that people continue being rude and annoying? Why do people block other so easily? Is a comment/question after the game that horrible? are people oversensitive? Are you referring also to people that don't accept whispers from those not on their friends list? And is blocking someone really that annoying and serious?
Yes, i refer to that, and also during the game.
And no it not serious at all. I was just curious, hence i asked.
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On February 23 2020 10:37 brickrd wrote:
on NA, around ~4000-5000 MMR, BM is endemic and horrifically toxic. i never encounter anyone who's friendly. from what i can tell normal people just don't talk at all. some people "GL HF," but the vast majority of them are still rude if they lose
That's very strange, I'm also playing in that MMR range on NA from time to time, I only encounter bad BM after cheese or after wins in the super late game. Mostly, it's mild, e.g. someone typed "INSTANT REMAX LOL" and left. I'm zerg.
Personally, I find BM amusing. Doesn't bother me at all. Sometimes really great stuff happens, like:
virpi: glhf
Opponent: cunt
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On February 23 2020 15:03 MockHamill wrote:
I love it when people BM me after a loss. Makes the game much more enjoyable than a boring GG. It is also a good way to learn languages, I now know how to insult people in English, French, Spanish, Russian, German and Italian.
Same boat
I'm also BM most games so it feels empty if they don't BM me back
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It's annoying when you lose or are losing and the opponent starts insulting and belittling you. Don't know why the thread is so focused on when it is you've won. Is it serious? Well, it's a game, of course it's not serious. It's not like they can physically assault you.
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in my experience, SC2 players are usually pretty good mannered.
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I feel it's the same as in most other games. BM is prevalent in lower leagues, because those players let their mentality get in the way of learning. Which is part of the reason why they are stuck in lower leagues.
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BM is always toxic imo. I've seen some pretty bad BM is SC2 more so than other games. I've seen a lot of different ones but the worst example is one person literally called me autistic and said I should kill myself. He harassed me for half an hour and repeated the same statement over and over. I try not to block people. I was hoping he'd calm down and we could actually discuss the game and learn from each other. Unfortunately too many people seem to just BM then block or they only accept messages from friends. I'm a father and I understand why as a parent you'd want to use that setting but... I feel in the long run it only allows people to BM more without recourse and never learn why they lost and/or struggled so hard to close the win. I'm not perfect. I've played this game for years and I used to BM some but I've never told anyone to kill themselves. SC2 is a great game and I hope the player base grows. At this point in time I don't see that happening in large part to the current state of Blizzard in the media; but also because BM chases new players away quite aggressively. I've got over 12k games played at this point. I fully understand how frustrating the game can be. Maybe it's unrealistic, wishful thinking, but I still hope the player base grows while becoming more mature at the same time. I can definitely see how higher level players can overlook it but BM is toxic and chases new players away. I just wish more people would try to reach out to the BM'er in a civil way and try to help them learn instead of BM'ing back then blocking. I think it would help the overall community and in turn the competitive community in a big way.
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On February 23 2020 08:54 aringadingding wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2020 08:12 BronzeKnee wrote:
First things I do in a game after building a worker:
1) Type "gl hf"
2) Mute my opponent
There is nothing they can say that is going to interest me, and I'm not playing to be social. Nor am I playing to help you, I am playing to help myself.
You get a free lesson if you lose, I get a free one if I lose. yeah ofc i get your point. But if you are not a top GM player i imagine most people can actually learn stuff from the opponent. Watching the replay is good and analysing the game yourself. But i find a direct feedback can give you additional knowledge to that analysis. And, if you are not top GM, you are most likely not playing that opponent that often, and not in very important games...so you have very little to loose. But to each his own.
Don't bother learning lessons and bad habits from bad players. Grinding on ladder in low leagues just teaches bad habits, it is a terrible idea.
If you want to win, study what the best players do, copy some builds that appeal to you and run them. Not until you get them right, but until you can't get them wrong. First alone in custom games versus the AI, then on the ladder. If you can do that, you'll realize how tight the timings need to be and you'll be in Masters League, even if you only have 1 build against each race.
That's the easy part. Then, expand the number of builds you are able to deploy and eventually come up with your own. You're going to have plow your own way forward if you want to be the best. You're not going to be a better version of any single professional player, you can only be the best version of aringadingding. When Stephano came on the scene he was using Roaches in ZvT and it was laughable at the time.
Then he wrecked multiple Code S Korean players on his way to winning multiple tournaments full of Koreans and suddenly was the single foreigner who could compete. If you didn't watch SC2 at that time, it was incredible. He single handedly changed metas. It is hard to overstate how good he was. He walked into Pro-League and won his first two matches, something that had never been done (I don't think any foreigner had even won their first match).
So unless you are taking advice from the best, don't bother.
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Northern Ireland25107 Posts
On February 24 2020 00:49 DarthIke71 wrote:
BM is always toxic imo. I've seen some pretty bad BM is SC2 more so than other games. I've seen a lot of different ones but the worst example is one person literally called me autistic and said I should kill myself. He harassed me for half an hour and repeated the same statement over and over. I try not to block people. I was hoping he'd calm down and we could actually discuss the game and learn from each other. Unfortunately too many people seem to just BM then block or they only accept messages from friends. I'm a father and I understand why as a parent you'd want to use that setting but... I feel in the long run it only allows people to BM more without recourse and never learn why they lost and/or struggled so hard to close the win. I'm not perfect. I've played this game for years and I used to BM some but I've never told anyone to kill themselves. SC2 is a great game and I hope the player base grows. At this point in time I don't see that happening in large part to the current state of Blizzard in the media; but also because BM chases new players away quite aggressively. I've got over 12k games played at this point. I fully understand how frustrating the game can be. Maybe it's unrealistic, wishful thinking, but I still hope the player base grows while becoming more mature at the same time. I can definitely see how higher level players can overlook it but BM is toxic and chases new players away. I just wish more people would try to reach out to the BM'er in a civil way and try to help them learn instead of BM'ing back then blocking. I think it would help the overall community and in turn the competitive community in a big way.
I don’t really think it would, I respectfully disagree, but with real emphasis on the respect for your position,
There are very much tiers of BM, from the frustrated singular outburst to the sustained weird threats on your family’s lives or whatever.
Reaching out to the former can be quite productive, the latter category are pretty defective people whose behaviour is ridiculous and is only semi-tolerated because of the ‘it’s the internet’ being an excuse for horrendous behaviour.
Maybe it’s being old and having played games online for over 20 years, I’m just sick of such behaviour and the pseudo-tolerance of it as an inevitability.
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Northern Ireland25107 Posts
On February 24 2020 01:14 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2020 08:54 aringadingding wrote:On February 23 2020 08:12 BronzeKnee wrote:
First things I do in a game after building a worker:
1) Type "gl hf"
2) Mute my opponent
There is nothing they can say that is going to interest me, and I'm not playing to be social. Nor am I playing to help you, I am playing to help myself.
You get a free lesson if you lose, I get a free one if I lose. yeah ofc i get your point. But if you are not a top GM player i imagine most people can actually learn stuff from the opponent. Watching the replay is good and analysing the game yourself. But i find a direct feedback can give you additional knowledge to that analysis. And, if you are not top GM, you are most likely not playing that opponent that often, and not in very important games...so you have very little to loose. But to each his own. Don't bother learning lessons and bad habits from bad players. Grinding on ladder in low leagues just teaches bad habits, it is a terrible idea. If you want to win, study what the best players do, copy some builds that appeal to you and run them. Not until you get them right, but until you can't get them wrong. First alone in custom games versus the AI, then on the ladder. If you can do that, you'll realize how tight the timings need to be and you'll be in Masters League, even if you only have 1 build against each race. That's the easy part. Then, expand the number of builds you are able to deploy and eventually come up with your own. You're going to have plow your own way forward if you want to be the best. You're not going to be a better version of any single professional players, you can only be the best version of aringadingding. When Stephano came on the scene he was using Roaches in ZvT and it was laughable at the time. Then he wrecked multiple Code S Korean players on his way to winning multiple tournaments full of Koreans and suddenly was the single foreigner who could compete. If you didn't watch SC2 at that time, it was incredible. He single handedly changed metas. It is hard to overstate how good he was. He walked into Pro-League and won his first two matches, something that had never been done (I don't think any foreigner had even won their first match). So unless you are taking advice from the best, don't bother.
It’s a good approach if you have a certain goal, say making Masters or whatever.
Not everyone wants to play a game where they’re studying and analysing as much as they’re playing the game, so having others to point out obvious mistakes can be pretty useful.
Some people just want to see how far they can improve playing the game and using their own weird builds and strategies for example.
Personally when I do return to playing actively I look around for builds I like stylistically and I do the exact process you’re talking about, I think there’s a satisfaction in nailing a smooth build in and of itself, so I don’t disagree with the approach at all obviously.
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Canada8989 Posts
Well asking for advise in lower league is not the most efficient way to get better, but it depend what you want to do. Sometime you get more interesting response from people your skill level since they give you more general advise that you can implement right away and see how it goes + you can get a nice chat out of it!
Obviously following a BO and focusing on macro mechanics is the best way to get better, but not everyone is interested in that part of it. I know personally, as someone who doesn't play that much since a few years I don't even bother with build order. I just kind of follow general idea of what I want to do and if someone give me some advise after a game I may try it next game just to see if it stick.
Depend what your goal is, I could never have the patience to grind build order practice vs the IA personally.
Edit: Oups, what Wombat just said.
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On February 24 2020 01:48 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2020 01:14 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 23 2020 08:54 aringadingding wrote:On February 23 2020 08:12 BronzeKnee wrote:
First things I do in a game after building a worker:
1) Type "gl hf"
2) Mute my opponent
There is nothing they can say that is going to interest me, and I'm not playing to be social. Nor am I playing to help you, I am playing to help myself.
You get a free lesson if you lose, I get a free one if I lose. yeah ofc i get your point. But if you are not a top GM player i imagine most people can actually learn stuff from the opponent. Watching the replay is good and analysing the game yourself. But i find a direct feedback can give you additional knowledge to that analysis. And, if you are not top GM, you are most likely not playing that opponent that often, and not in very important games...so you have very little to loose. But to each his own. Don't bother learning lessons and bad habits from bad players. Grinding on ladder in low leagues just teaches bad habits, it is a terrible idea. If you want to win, study what the best players do, copy some builds that appeal to you and run them. Not until you get them right, but until you can't get them wrong. First alone in custom games versus the AI, then on the ladder. If you can do that, you'll realize how tight the timings need to be and you'll be in Masters League, even if you only have 1 build against each race. That's the easy part. Then, expand the number of builds you are able to deploy and eventually come up with your own. You're going to have plow your own way forward if you want to be the best. You're not going to be a better version of any single professional players, you can only be the best version of aringadingding. When Stephano came on the scene he was using Roaches in ZvT and it was laughable at the time. Then he wrecked multiple Code S Korean players on his way to winning multiple tournaments full of Koreans and suddenly was the single foreigner who could compete. If you didn't watch SC2 at that time, it was incredible. He single handedly changed metas. It is hard to overstate how good he was. He walked into Pro-League and won his first two matches, something that had never been done (I don't think any foreigner had even won their first match). So unless you are taking advice from the best, don't bother. It’s a good approach if you have a certain goal, say making Masters or whatever. Not everyone wants to play a game where they’re studying and analysing as much as they’re playing the game, so having others to point out obvious mistakes can be pretty useful. Some people just want to see how far they can improve playing the game and using their own weird builds and strategies for example. Personally when I do return to playing actively I look around for builds I like stylistically and I do the exact process you’re talking about, I think there’s a satisfaction in nailing a smooth build in and of itself, so I don’t disagree with the approach at all obviously.
Starcraft, like almost everything in life, is what you make it.
If you want it to be social and be able to chat nicely with people, some will play along, some won't. Nothing wrong with either approach really. Just wanted to make sure people understand why I muted everyone when I played. Comments, good, bad, bm, whatever could only distract me, even if it amused me. It wasn't that I was afraid of bm, I just wasn't there for it, or anything social.
So let's let Starcraft be whatever the player wants it to be no matter what they choose without judging them, which this thread does.
I do think reaching out to someone BMing is almost always counter-productive, walk away or let them suffer alone like I do by muting your opponent at the start of a match, take away their ability to vent through being toxic because it isn't productive. And self control isn't something you learn from someone else.
Starcraft is what you make it, and some people want to be miserable in life. Don't join them.
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On February 23 2020 15:44 aringadingding wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2020 14:57 Danglars wrote:On February 23 2020 05:52 aringadingding wrote:This is my first post here. First i just wanted to say that I love sc2, it is the ONLY game that i truly love and even though i am frustrate from time to time, it still holds my heart in a tight grip. One thing I am a bit surprised by is that many people recently have blocked any comments after the game. After I (finally!) have been over my ladder anxiety and played a lot of games I have to ask you if people have a problem with BM etc after game? I ask this because I have played many games recently and some have been somewhat bm during the games BUT those who actually allowed comments afterwards have always ended up being quite nice and giving some advice (some after a few more rude remarks but still! ). So, my feeling now is that most people in sc2, even though they are slightly cocky and slightly bm, is actually really helpful if you actually ask them. Have i just been lucky to receive good and helpful feedback from other players or is it a general thing that people continue being rude and annoying? Why do people block other so easily? Is a comment/question after the game that horrible? are people oversensitive? Are you referring also to people that don't accept whispers from those not on their friends list? And is blocking someone really that annoying and serious? Yes, i refer to that, and also during the game. And no it not serious at all. I was just curious, hence i asked.
Yeah I don’t think the “only allow whispers from those in my friends list” is a good measure of people wanting to avoid BM. It just helps practice in developing a zen attitude towards macro or new builds. I’m sure some people do it because of nasty people online wanting to avoid it all, but there’s a hefty contingent just enjoying the silence. I don’t have it on now since I’m casual, but for a time learning a new race new build, I put it on.
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On February 24 2020 00:41 nerdchill wrote:
I feel it's the same as in most other games. BM is prevalent in lower leagues, because those players let their mentality get in the way of learning. Which is part of the reason why they are stuck in lower leagues.
Yes! I've noticed this as well. The vast majority of the raging I've seen from my cannon rushes were from silver-plat players. I hardly ever got any from masters.
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On February 24 2020 08:19 tigon_ridge wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2020 00:41 nerdchill wrote:
I feel it's the same as in most other games. BM is prevalent in lower leagues, because those players let their mentality get in the way of learning. Which is part of the reason why they are stuck in lower leagues. Yes! I've noticed this as well. The vast majority of the raging I've seen from my cannon rushes were from silver-plat players. I hardly ever got any from masters.
there are numerous GM to pro level players known for BM and trash attitudes lol
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I don't mind getting BM'ed or raged at in 1v1 games, StarCraft or otherwise. Most of the time I find it amusing and motivating.
Now getting BM'ed in team games or co-op modes, especially from teammates? That's a different story...
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One of the biggest reasons so many people are toxic is because this game is a 1v1 and they have no one to blame but themselves and no game makes your ego take more of a beating than sc2 if you are a very competitive person.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
Bad manners positive person here. As long as it stays non-personal I welcome every BM and I offer plenty. Sadly nothing interesting or innovative from me.
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Northern Ireland25107 Posts
On February 24 2020 19:36 deacon.frost wrote:
Bad manners positive person here. As long as it stays non-personal I welcome every BM and I offer plenty. Sadly nothing interesting or innovative from me.
Looking forward to BMing you on the ladder son :p
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On February 23 2020 06:40 Wombat_NI wrote:
It’s difficult to really say when I have no idea what constitutes ‘somewhat BM’ from your end.
Personally I’m too old to be bothered with puerile shit, so I’ll block someone being a prick in game, but I’m absolutely fine with a bit of frustration being expressed or whatever, so a comment in that spirit is fine.
If there’s a bit of wit in BM and it’s not spamming stuff about my mother I can quite enjoy laughing at it and would be happy to give someone advice after a game or whatever.
i lie about what race i am when i play as random. some people consider this BM. to me, deception is part of the game.
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Northern Ireland25107 Posts
On February 24 2020 22:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2020 06:40 Wombat_NI wrote:
It’s difficult to really say when I have no idea what constitutes ‘somewhat BM’ from your end.
Personally I’m too old to be bothered with puerile shit, so I’ll block someone being a prick in game, but I’m absolutely fine with a bit of frustration being expressed or whatever, so a comment in that spirit is fine.
If there’s a bit of wit in BM and it’s not spamming stuff about my mother I can quite enjoy laughing at it and would be happy to give someone advice after a game or whatever. i lie about what race i am when i play as random. some people consider this BM. to me, deception is part of the game.
What kind of monster are you!? I’m down for silence tbf, or the gentlemanly truthful race reveal which is preferable.
At least PvR isn’t quite as shit as it used to be in WoL where I just left the game instantly. Rolling the dice between FFE or you’re super behind v Zerg, Terrans laughing at your forge and Protoss players laughing that you expanded at all was just silly and didn’t make for proper games.
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Canada8989 Posts
On February 24 2020 22:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2020 06:40 Wombat_NI wrote:
It’s difficult to really say when I have no idea what constitutes ‘somewhat BM’ from your end.
Personally I’m too old to be bothered with puerile shit, so I’ll block someone being a prick in game, but I’m absolutely fine with a bit of frustration being expressed or whatever, so a comment in that spirit is fine.
If there’s a bit of wit in BM and it’s not spamming stuff about my mother I can quite enjoy laughing at it and would be happy to give someone advice after a game or whatever. i lie about what race i am when i play as random. some people consider this BM. to me, deception is part of the game.
Dosen't really seems different from people spamming insults/questions at the start of the game to make you talk when they all in you, both are part of the game I guess, both are also a bit BM lets be honest.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 24 2020 22:34 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2020 22:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On February 23 2020 06:40 Wombat_NI wrote:
It’s difficult to really say when I have no idea what constitutes ‘somewhat BM’ from your end.
Personally I’m too old to be bothered with puerile shit, so I’ll block someone being a prick in game, but I’m absolutely fine with a bit of frustration being expressed or whatever, so a comment in that spirit is fine.
If there’s a bit of wit in BM and it’s not spamming stuff about my mother I can quite enjoy laughing at it and would be happy to give someone advice after a game or whatever. i lie about what race i am when i play as random. some people consider this BM. to me, deception is part of the game. What kind of monster are you!? I’m down for silence tbf, or the gentlemanly truthful race reveal which is preferable. At least PvR isn’t quite as shit as it used to be in WoL where I just left the game instantly. Rolling the dice between FFE or you’re super behind v Zerg, Terrans laughing at your forge and Protoss players laughing that you expanded at all was just silly and didn’t make for proper games.
I love especially when they ask but both SCVs are already on the way no matter the answer(or a probe). That's the true spirit!
On February 24 2020 21:27 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2020 19:36 deacon.frost wrote:
Bad manners positive person here. As long as it stays non-personal I welcome every BM and I offer plenty. Sadly nothing interesting or innovative from me. Looking forward to BMing you on the ladder son :p
I don't think we will meet, but maybe if you lose enough games and I get only Protoss(my former main race) and no mirrors 
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On February 24 2020 22:34 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2020 22:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On February 23 2020 06:40 Wombat_NI wrote:
It’s difficult to really say when I have no idea what constitutes ‘somewhat BM’ from your end.
Personally I’m too old to be bothered with puerile shit, so I’ll block someone being a prick in game, but I’m absolutely fine with a bit of frustration being expressed or whatever, so a comment in that spirit is fine.
If there’s a bit of wit in BM and it’s not spamming stuff about my mother I can quite enjoy laughing at it and would be happy to give someone advice after a game or whatever. i lie about what race i am when i play as random. some people consider this BM. to me, deception is part of the game. What kind of monster are you!?
monster? Karla Homolka is a monster. I'm the kind of "monster" that engages in playful deception for the fun of it when there is almost nothing at stake.
On February 24 2020 23:20 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2020 22:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On February 23 2020 06:40 Wombat_NI wrote:
It’s difficult to really say when I have no idea what constitutes ‘somewhat BM’ from your end.
Personally I’m too old to be bothered with puerile shit, so I’ll block someone being a prick in game, but I’m absolutely fine with a bit of frustration being expressed or whatever, so a comment in that spirit is fine.
If there’s a bit of wit in BM and it’s not spamming stuff about my mother I can quite enjoy laughing at it and would be happy to give someone advice after a game or whatever. i lie about what race i am when i play as random. some people consider this BM. to me, deception is part of the game. Dosen't really seems different from people spamming insults/questions at the start of the game to make you talk when they all in you, both are part of the game I guess, both are also a bit BM lets be honest.
That rarely happens to me. i will get the odd sentence of two before the cheese reveals itself but that is about it. That might happen 1 in 40 games at most though.
If that behaviour becomes a more common occurrence a new wrinkle on that strat might develop where you say a sentence or two at the start to get your opponent to think you are cheesing ... and it turns out you are not cheesing.
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On February 25 2020 00:23 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2020 22:34 Wombat_NI wrote:On February 24 2020 22:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On February 23 2020 06:40 Wombat_NI wrote:
It’s difficult to really say when I have no idea what constitutes ‘somewhat BM’ from your end.
Personally I’m too old to be bothered with puerile shit, so I’ll block someone being a prick in game, but I’m absolutely fine with a bit of frustration being expressed or whatever, so a comment in that spirit is fine.
If there’s a bit of wit in BM and it’s not spamming stuff about my mother I can quite enjoy laughing at it and would be happy to give someone advice after a game or whatever. i lie about what race i am when i play as random. some people consider this BM. to me, deception is part of the game. What kind of monster are you!? monster? Karla Homolka is a monster. I'm the kind of "monster" that engages in playful deception for the fun of it when there is almost nothing at stake. Show nested quote +On February 24 2020 23:20 Nakajin wrote:On February 24 2020 22:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On February 23 2020 06:40 Wombat_NI wrote:
It’s difficult to really say when I have no idea what constitutes ‘somewhat BM’ from your end.
Personally I’m too old to be bothered with puerile shit, so I’ll block someone being a prick in game, but I’m absolutely fine with a bit of frustration being expressed or whatever, so a comment in that spirit is fine.
If there’s a bit of wit in BM and it’s not spamming stuff about my mother I can quite enjoy laughing at it and would be happy to give someone advice after a game or whatever. i lie about what race i am when i play as random. some people consider this BM. to me, deception is part of the game. Dosen't really seems different from people spamming insults/questions at the start of the game to make you talk when they all in you, both are part of the game I guess, both are also a bit BM lets be honest. That rarely happens to me. i will get the odd sentence of two before the cheese reveals itself but that is about it. That might happen 1 in 40 games at most though. If that behaviour becomes a more common occurrence a new wrinkle on that strat might develop where you say a sentence or two at the start to get your opponent to think you are cheesing ... and it turns out you are not cheesing.
Metagaming turns into metachatting.
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Not at all, I think I haven't faced it in a long time.
That being said, if you are facing a flooder or you don't have time to type, you can simply ignore the enemy.
Sc2 was always pretty mannered, but in the end of the game someone might get angry.
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I just block people as soon as game starts because SC2 chat has always been dumb.
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On February 24 2020 22:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2020 06:40 Wombat_NI wrote:
It’s difficult to really say when I have no idea what constitutes ‘somewhat BM’ from your end.
Personally I’m too old to be bothered with puerile shit, so I’ll block someone being a prick in game, but I’m absolutely fine with a bit of frustration being expressed or whatever, so a comment in that spirit is fine.
If there’s a bit of wit in BM and it’s not spamming stuff about my mother I can quite enjoy laughing at it and would be happy to give someone advice after a game or whatever. i lie about what race i am when i play as random. some people consider this BM. to me, deception is part of the game.
lmao
If I played random I would for sure do this.
But alas, Zerg and Protoss are too difficult for me to play lol
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On February 24 2020 22:34 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2020 22:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On February 23 2020 06:40 Wombat_NI wrote:
It’s difficult to really say when I have no idea what constitutes ‘somewhat BM’ from your end.
Personally I’m too old to be bothered with puerile shit, so I’ll block someone being a prick in game, but I’m absolutely fine with a bit of frustration being expressed or whatever, so a comment in that spirit is fine.
If there’s a bit of wit in BM and it’s not spamming stuff about my mother I can quite enjoy laughing at it and would be happy to give someone advice after a game or whatever. i lie about what race i am when i play as random. some people consider this BM. to me, deception is part of the game. What kind of monster are you!? I’m down for silence tbf, or the gentlemanly truthful race reveal which is preferable. At least PvR isn’t quite as shit as it used to be in WoL where I just left the game instantly. Rolling the dice between FFE or you’re super behind v Zerg, Terrans laughing at your forge and Protoss players laughing that you expanded at all was just silly and didn’t make for proper games.
There is always the option of scouting 
EDIT: I played random quite a bit in the old days. If asked I would answer truthfully, but always said "this could be a lie"
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Ohhhh random's always fun bait.
Protoss? Cannon rush.
Terran? Proxy rax.
Zerg? Fast pool.
Probably the cheapest way to get to master without developing much mechanical skills. :D
Is this blatant bm? Maybe. Will it elicit some of the most toxic NaCl comments from your opponents? Quite often.
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Northern Ireland25107 Posts
On February 25 2020 17:58 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2020 22:34 Wombat_NI wrote:On February 24 2020 22:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On February 23 2020 06:40 Wombat_NI wrote:
It’s difficult to really say when I have no idea what constitutes ‘somewhat BM’ from your end.
Personally I’m too old to be bothered with puerile shit, so I’ll block someone being a prick in game, but I’m absolutely fine with a bit of frustration being expressed or whatever, so a comment in that spirit is fine.
If there’s a bit of wit in BM and it’s not spamming stuff about my mother I can quite enjoy laughing at it and would be happy to give someone advice after a game or whatever. i lie about what race i am when i play as random. some people consider this BM. to me, deception is part of the game. What kind of monster are you!? I’m down for silence tbf, or the gentlemanly truthful race reveal which is preferable. At least PvR isn’t quite as shit as it used to be in WoL where I just left the game instantly. Rolling the dice between FFE or you’re super behind v Zerg, Terrans laughing at your forge and Protoss players laughing that you expanded at all was just silly and didn’t make for proper games. There is always the option of scouting EDIT: I played random quite a bit in the old days. If asked I would answer truthfully, but always said "this could be a lie"
Not you too Harris  I thought TLers were a more honourable bunch!
It’s not as bad now as I say, less 4 player maps certainly helps. Rolling the dice back in the day that I find them first, some folks even just blind 6/7 pooled and hoped to find the right spawn. Fun times!
I’ve found the wonky nature of random from the other side too, even telling them my race people would do stupid terrible builds because they thought I was lying haha.
Would be nice to have a ‘revealed random’ for times you wanna mix it up and play all the races.
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I found most random players will tell you their race truthfully, even without being asked first. It's the only reason why lying about race can work. Would I consider that BM? Not really since its information you wouldn't have normally anyways. Does it even matter? Chance wise due to matchmaking you both have about 50% chance to win no matter whether the player lies about race or not. I would consider it sign of a psychotic trait to crow about doing so though.
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when a random player tells me their race (in bw) i never assume that is their actual race until I scout them lul
well unless i know them mb etc
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On February 25 2020 19:27 tigon_ridge wrote:
Ohhhh random's always fun bait.
Protoss? Cannon rush.
Terran? Proxy rax.
Zerg? Fast pool.
Probably the cheapest way to get to master without developing much mechanical skills. :D
Is this blatant bm? Maybe. Will it elicit some of the most toxic NaCl comments from your opponents? Quite often.
4gating as random in pvp is much better than cannon rush because random forces your opponent to expose their first pylon and core. cannon rushing a natural wall isn't really that good
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On February 24 2020 00:49 DarthIke71 wrote:
BM is always toxic imo. I've seen some pretty bad BM is SC2 more so than other games. I've seen a lot of different ones but the worst example is one person literally called me autistic and said I should kill myself. He harassed me for half an hour and repeated the same statement over and over. I try not to block people. I was hoping he'd calm down and we could actually discuss the game and learn from each other. Unfortunately too many people seem to just BM then block or they only accept messages from friends. I'm a father and I understand why as a parent you'd want to use that setting but... I feel in the long run it only allows people to BM more without recourse and never learn why they lost and/or struggled so hard to close the win. I'm not perfect. I've played this game for years and I used to BM some but I've never told anyone to kill themselves. SC2 is a great game and I hope the player base grows. At this point in time I don't see that happening in large part to the current state of Blizzard in the media; but also because BM chases new players away quite aggressively. I've got over 12k games played at this point. I fully understand how frustrating the game can be. Maybe it's unrealistic, wishful thinking, but I still hope the player base grows while becoming more mature at the same time. I can definitely see how higher level players can overlook it but BM is toxic and chases new players away. I just wish more people would try to reach out to the BM'er in a civil way and try to help them learn instead of BM'ing back then blocking. I think it would help the overall community and in turn the competitive community in a big way.
Haha, the sc2 community is one of the nicest i have ever seen tbh (gold league)
have you guys ever played something like overwatch? damn that's toxic as hell!
6v6 300+ games never seen a GL hf in my life, and the shit they talk about everyone else because its not their reason they lost, yeah great team atmosphere game
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In D2 I get called a smurf or a troll regularly. And to be fair, to them it probably looks like I'm a smurf or troll when I repeatedly smash them in our games with massively superior macro., especially since I'm sporting a Dark Voice portrait.Outside of that, I see actual BM once every 30 or so games? And by actual BM I mean they're personally attacking me, not just saying something like "X unit is op" or whatever...that happens every 10 or so games.
Normal banter happens and is healthy. For example, I said "Thank you for the relaxing game" to an opponent who was completely helpless for 20 minutes vs me and refused to gg out.
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On February 27 2020 08:41 BabelFish1 wrote:
In D2 I get called a smurf or a troll regularly. And to be fair, to them it probably looks like I'm a smurf or troll when I repeatedly smash them in our games with massively superior macro., especially since I'm sporting a Dark Voice portrait.Outside of that, I see actual BM once every 30 or so games? And by actual BM I mean they're personally attacking me, not just saying something like "X unit is op" or whatever...that happens every 10 or so games.
Normal banter happens and is healthy. For example, I said "Thank you for the relaxing game" to an opponent who was completely helpless for 20 minutes vs me and refused to gg out.
Love it when my opponent thought he was winning and did an "offensive" gg cause he thought I was dead. Little did he know I had a hidden base with a Dark Shrine standing ..... Muahahaha
+ Show Spoiler +F*** you Mr. Offensive GG Guy!
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EPT
