|
I really have 0 clue who wins the last two matches. I dont know anything anymore
|
Everyone is wrong, since having all his wins expunged from history Life is the best player to have never made a GSL final.
|
On June 15 2019 05:19 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2019 04:02 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On June 15 2019 01:54 Boggyb wrote:On June 15 2019 01:15 BisuDagger wrote:On June 14 2019 21:48 gTank wrote:On June 14 2019 21:43 renaissanceMAN wrote:On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote:
Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so. Taeja? the best player to never have done so  Exactly. The correct answer is Serral. No, it really isn't. Serral has won only 3 tournaments with major Korean representation. (Blizzcon, GSL vs. The World, and HomeStory Cup). That's a great argument for best non-Korean of all time but it is well below what a bunch of Koreans have accomplished. If that's the metric you're using, Dark's a chump because he has only won a single tournament with major Korean representation (2016 SSL Season 1). Dark has done well in countless other tournaments with Koreans. Serral has not. Dark's offline record vs. South Korean players: 178-98Serral's offline record vs. South Korean players: 36-36
This post can't be real(just as those not counting Serral WCS victories). I second TaeJa and herO, Dark is a great player but not the best who hasn't reached a Code S final yet.
|
On June 15 2019 03:34 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2019 02:56 Die4Ever wrote:On June 14 2019 23:57 Fango wrote:On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote:
Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so. Taeja - 11 weekenders, 2 GSL ro4s Solar - SSL 1st, SSL 2nd, SSL 3rd, 4 weekenders Bomber - 4 weekenders Polt - 7 weekenders, 1 GSL ro4 Rogue - 2x world champ, 2 weekenders Serral - 1 world champ, 1 weekender Dream - 2x SSL 2nd herO - 5 weekenders, 1 SSL, 1 GSL ro4 I'd definitely put Dark ahead of any of those, with his 21 ro4+ finishes in what are almost all extremely stacked events. Including 4 GSL ro4s, 3 SSL finals (inc one win), and a blizzcon finals. Not to mention being almost always the best or second best zerg for like four years now. Polt won a GSL Super Tournament  2011 GSL Super Tournament/Final8I think it's definitely between Taeja or Dark Super Tournaments don't count as a GSL Code S, and if they did, then Dark wouldn't be on the list because he's been to a Super Tournament final.
but then that Super Tournament that Polt won should've been listed in his achievements to compare who is the best player to never win Code S
|
On June 15 2019 09:33 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2019 05:19 Boggyb wrote:On June 15 2019 04:02 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On June 15 2019 01:54 Boggyb wrote:On June 15 2019 01:15 BisuDagger wrote:On June 14 2019 21:48 gTank wrote:On June 14 2019 21:43 renaissanceMAN wrote:On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote:
Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so. Taeja? the best player to never have done so Exactly. The correct answer is Serral. No, it really isn't. Serral has won only 3 tournaments with major Korean representation. (Blizzcon, GSL vs. The World, and HomeStory Cup). That's a great argument for best non-Korean of all time but it is well below what a bunch of Koreans have accomplished. If that's the metric you're using, Dark's a chump because he has only won a single tournament with major Korean representation (2016 SSL Season 1). Dark has done well in countless other tournaments with Koreans. Serral has not. Dark's offline record vs. South Korean players: 178-98Serral's offline record vs. South Korean players: 36-36 This post can't be real(just as those not counting Serral WCS victories). I second TaeJa and herO, Dark is a great player but not the best who hasn't reached a Code S final yet.
Why can't it be real? Starcraft 2 wasn't released in 2017. If you're going to talk about the best player to not have done X, it is super dumb to just look at current form.
It is absolutely reasonable to ignore Serral's WCS performances because he beats at most 4 Code S caliber players to do it. There are Olimoleagues with competition equal to that.
|
I feel like Dark should win this, but with how many upsets there have been in this season of GSL, I wouldn't be surprised if Hurricane wins haha!
|
On June 15 2019 10:24 Die4Ever wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2019 03:34 Boggyb wrote:On June 15 2019 02:56 Die4Ever wrote:On June 14 2019 23:57 Fango wrote:On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote:
Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so. Taeja - 11 weekenders, 2 GSL ro4s Solar - SSL 1st, SSL 2nd, SSL 3rd, 4 weekenders Bomber - 4 weekenders Polt - 7 weekenders, 1 GSL ro4 Rogue - 2x world champ, 2 weekenders Serral - 1 world champ, 1 weekender Dream - 2x SSL 2nd herO - 5 weekenders, 1 SSL, 1 GSL ro4 I'd definitely put Dark ahead of any of those, with his 21 ro4+ finishes in what are almost all extremely stacked events. Including 4 GSL ro4s, 3 SSL finals (inc one win), and a blizzcon finals. Not to mention being almost always the best or second best zerg for like four years now. Polt won a GSL Super Tournament 2011 GSL Super Tournament/Final8I think it's definitely between Taeja or Dark Super Tournaments don't count as a GSL Code S, and if they did, then Dark wouldn't be on the list because he's been to a Super Tournament final. but then that Super Tournament that Polt won should've been listed in his achievements to compare who is the best player to never win Code S
I think it's just wacked in with the 7 weekenders he won to be honest. Though (if I remember right) that event was way longer than a weekend like the modern super tournaments are, and is probably in the same regard as a bigger events like katowice.
|
On June 14 2019 23:57 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote:
Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so. Taeja - 11 weekenders, 2 GSL ro4s Solar - SSL 1st, SSL 2nd, SSL 3rd, 4 weekenders Bomber - 4 weekenders Polt - 7 weekenders, 1 GSL ro4 Rogue - 2x world champ, 2 weekenders Serral - 1 world champ, 1 weekender Dream - 2x SSL 2nd herO - 5 weekenders, 1 SSL, 1 GSL ro4 I'd definitely put Dark ahead of any of those, with his 21 ro4+ finishes in what are almost all extremely stacked events. Including 4 GSL ro4s, 3 SSL finals (inc one win), and a blizzcon finals. Not to mention being almost always the best or second best zerg for like four years now.
Dark hasn't won a thing since that SSL, its cool to consistently reach RO4s, but failing to reach the finals everytime just means you're a very good player who's always short of being the best. Stats and Maru have showed this to Dark. Taeja, Polt and herO have a much better resume in my opinion. He breaks even with Rogue and Solar in my opinion. There are 2 other Zergs who are clearly better, and one who is clearly worse, but somehow keeps finding his way into this. I don't think i need to name them.
|
On June 15 2019 10:33 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2019 09:33 Xain0n wrote:On June 15 2019 05:19 Boggyb wrote:On June 15 2019 04:02 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On June 15 2019 01:54 Boggyb wrote:On June 15 2019 01:15 BisuDagger wrote:On June 14 2019 21:48 gTank wrote:On June 14 2019 21:43 renaissanceMAN wrote:On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote:
Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so. Taeja? the best player to never have done so Exactly. The correct answer is Serral. No, it really isn't. Serral has won only 3 tournaments with major Korean representation. (Blizzcon, GSL vs. The World, and HomeStory Cup). That's a great argument for best non-Korean of all time but it is well below what a bunch of Koreans have accomplished. If that's the metric you're using, Dark's a chump because he has only won a single tournament with major Korean representation (2016 SSL Season 1). Dark has done well in countless other tournaments with Koreans. Serral has not. Dark's offline record vs. South Korean players: 178-98Serral's offline record vs. South Korean players: 36-36 This post can't be real(just as those not counting Serral WCS victories). I second TaeJa and herO, Dark is a great player but not the best who hasn't reached a Code S final yet. Why can't it be real? Starcraft 2 wasn't released in 2017. If you're going to talk about the best player to not have done X, it is super dumb to just look at current form. It is absolutely reasonable to ignore Serral's WCS performances because he beats at most 4 Code S caliber players to do it. There are Olimoleagues with competition equal to that.
"Absolutely reasonable"? Would you say as much about the stats you brought in(true ones, but totally misleading) that present Serral as a player who has a 50% chanche to beat koreans? So very convenient to omiss Serral's WCS victories while including his records before he became a full time player.
Serral, by the way, has never even played a Code S qualifier; he shouldn't have been involved in this discussion.
|
On June 15 2019 11:57 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2019 10:33 Boggyb wrote:On June 15 2019 09:33 Xain0n wrote:On June 15 2019 05:19 Boggyb wrote:On June 15 2019 04:02 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On June 15 2019 01:54 Boggyb wrote:On June 15 2019 01:15 BisuDagger wrote:On June 14 2019 21:48 gTank wrote:On June 14 2019 21:43 renaissanceMAN wrote:On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote:
Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so. Taeja? the best player to never have done so Exactly. The correct answer is Serral. No, it really isn't. Serral has won only 3 tournaments with major Korean representation. (Blizzcon, GSL vs. The World, and HomeStory Cup). That's a great argument for best non-Korean of all time but it is well below what a bunch of Koreans have accomplished. If that's the metric you're using, Dark's a chump because he has only won a single tournament with major Korean representation (2016 SSL Season 1). Dark has done well in countless other tournaments with Koreans. Serral has not. Dark's offline record vs. South Korean players: 178-98Serral's offline record vs. South Korean players: 36-36 This post can't be real(just as those not counting Serral WCS victories). I second TaeJa and herO, Dark is a great player but not the best who hasn't reached a Code S final yet. Why can't it be real? Starcraft 2 wasn't released in 2017. If you're going to talk about the best player to not have done X, it is super dumb to just look at current form. It is absolutely reasonable to ignore Serral's WCS performances because he beats at most 4 Code S caliber players to do it. There are Olimoleagues with competition equal to that. "Absolutely reasonable"? Would you say as much about the stats you brought in(true ones, but totally misleading) that present Serral as a player who has a 50% chanche to beat koreans? So very convenient to omiss Serral's WCS victories while including his records before he became a full time player. Serral, by the way, has never even played a Code S qualifier; he shouldn't have been involved in this discussion.
Serral had the chance to compete in every code S, even easier for him since his brother lives in Seoul. Dark or these other players could not compete in WCS even if they wanted to. These WCS events for Serral are like the Asian Games that Maru went to as the only south korean and stomped everyone in, pointless and not worth mentioning. Winning a tournament where you're 2 times as good as the second best player is worthless as a discussion topic.
|
I forgot to say in my initial post - Thanks op for the write up and the thread.
I am so excited. I am hoping for at least one full throated long 4-5 base lategame.
As a struggling new sc2 player, toss lategame has me meat shielding my way to a loss and learning from serral is like trying to learn from jd or effort.... great if you have the fluid intelligence of an astronaut. Not so useful for average zergs.
|
On June 15 2019 12:24 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2019 11:57 Xain0n wrote:On June 15 2019 10:33 Boggyb wrote:On June 15 2019 09:33 Xain0n wrote:On June 15 2019 05:19 Boggyb wrote:On June 15 2019 04:02 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On June 15 2019 01:54 Boggyb wrote:On June 15 2019 01:15 BisuDagger wrote:On June 14 2019 21:48 gTank wrote:On June 14 2019 21:43 renaissanceMAN wrote:
[quote]
Taeja? the best player to never have done so Exactly. The correct answer is Serral. No, it really isn't. Serral has won only 3 tournaments with major Korean representation. (Blizzcon, GSL vs. The World, and HomeStory Cup). That's a great argument for best non-Korean of all time but it is well below what a bunch of Koreans have accomplished. If that's the metric you're using, Dark's a chump because he has only won a single tournament with major Korean representation (2016 SSL Season 1). Dark has done well in countless other tournaments with Koreans. Serral has not. Dark's offline record vs. South Korean players: 178-98Serral's offline record vs. South Korean players: 36-36 This post can't be real(just as those not counting Serral WCS victories). I second TaeJa and herO, Dark is a great player but not the best who hasn't reached a Code S final yet. Why can't it be real? Starcraft 2 wasn't released in 2017. If you're going to talk about the best player to not have done X, it is super dumb to just look at current form. It is absolutely reasonable to ignore Serral's WCS performances because he beats at most 4 Code S caliber players to do it. There are Olimoleagues with competition equal to that. "Absolutely reasonable"? Would you say as much about the stats you brought in(true ones, but totally misleading) that present Serral as a player who has a 50% chanche to beat koreans? So very convenient to omiss Serral's WCS victories while including his records before he became a full time player. Serral, by the way, has never even played a Code S qualifier; he shouldn't have been involved in this discussion. Serral had the chance to compete in every code S, even easier for him since his brother lives in Seoul. Dark or these other players could not compete in WCS even if they wanted to. These WCS events for Serral are like the Asian Games that Maru went to as the only south korean and stomped everyone in, pointless and not worth mentioning. Winning a tournament where you're 2 times as good as the second best player is worthless as a discussion topic.
That Serral theorically could doesn't mean that he should have, staying in Korea for months is not a joke; thus said, I'd love to see him play in GSL, if i were him I'd have chosen Season 3 qualifiers over HSC.
By your logic, whenever there is a super dominant player, Code S shouldn't be worth anything as well.
Always the same discussions, that's frankly boring.
|
Ah, again we ended up with Xainon defending Serral. In a thread about Dark vs Hurricane.
|
On June 15 2019 17:00 Ej_ wrote:
Ah, again we ended up with Xainon defending Serral. In a thread about Dark vs Hurricane.
Again we ended up with people involving Serral in a Code S finals discussion and downplaying him for no reason.
Still not sure why you would think the fault is mine, "another post devolved into a Serral's achievements discussion" would be more appropriate.
|
On June 15 2019 17:06 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2019 17:00 Ej_ wrote:
Ah, again we ended up with Xainon defending Serral. In a thread about Dark vs Hurricane. Again we ended up with people involving Serral in a Code S finals discussion and downplaying him for no reason. Still not sure why you would think the fault is mine, "another post devolved into a Serral's achievements discussion" would be more appropriate.
Because somehow you always end up entagled here. Whether you're the first person to bring Serral up or not, it seems you find true pleasure in making literally everything about meaningfulness of WCS championship.s
|
On June 15 2019 17:13 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2019 17:06 Xain0n wrote:On June 15 2019 17:00 Ej_ wrote:
Ah, again we ended up with Xainon defending Serral. In a thread about Dark vs Hurricane. Again we ended up with people involving Serral in a Code S finals discussion and downplaying him for no reason. Still not sure why you would think the fault is mine, "another post devolved into a Serral's achievements discussion" would be more appropriate. Because somehow you always end up entagled here. Whether you're the first person to bring Serral up or not, it seems you find true pleasure in making literally everything about meaningfulness of WCS championship.s
As long as there are people casually comparing WCS to Olimoleagues, I can't really stop doing this.
I would better understand your point of view if I purposely aimed to convert every unrelated thread into a Serral discussion, but that's really not the case.
|
On June 15 2019 17:30 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2019 17:13 Ej_ wrote:On June 15 2019 17:06 Xain0n wrote:On June 15 2019 17:00 Ej_ wrote:
Ah, again we ended up with Xainon defending Serral. In a thread about Dark vs Hurricane. Again we ended up with people involving Serral in a Code S finals discussion and downplaying him for no reason. Still not sure why you would think the fault is mine, "another post devolved into a Serral's achievements discussion" would be more appropriate. Because somehow you always end up entagled here. Whether you're the first person to bring Serral up or not, it seems you find true pleasure in making literally everything about meaningfulness of WCS championship.s As long as there are people casually comparing WCS to Olimoleagues, I can't really stop doing this. I would better understand your point of view if I purposely aimed to convert every unrelated thread into a Serral discussion, but that's really not the case.
As long as WCS has worse competition than OIimoleagues, people are going to compare them. Deal with it.
|
On June 15 2019 19:07 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2019 17:30 Xain0n wrote:On June 15 2019 17:13 Ej_ wrote:On June 15 2019 17:06 Xain0n wrote:On June 15 2019 17:00 Ej_ wrote:
Ah, again we ended up with Xainon defending Serral. In a thread about Dark vs Hurricane. Again we ended up with people involving Serral in a Code S finals discussion and downplaying him for no reason. Still not sure why you would think the fault is mine, "another post devolved into a Serral's achievements discussion" would be more appropriate. Because somehow you always end up entagled here. Whether you're the first person to bring Serral up or not, it seems you find true pleasure in making literally everything about meaningfulness of WCS championship.s As long as there are people casually comparing WCS to Olimoleagues, I can't really stop doing this. I would better understand your point of view if I purposely aimed to convert every unrelated thread into a Serral discussion, but that's really not the case. As long as WCS has worse competition than OIimoleagues, people are going to compare them. Deal with it.
This bias is a fine source of neverending entertainment.
|
Serral rekt noobs at Blizzcon and he'll do it again.
screw gsl.
|
On June 15 2019 19:13 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2019 19:07 opisska wrote:On June 15 2019 17:30 Xain0n wrote:On June 15 2019 17:13 Ej_ wrote:On June 15 2019 17:06 Xain0n wrote:On June 15 2019 17:00 Ej_ wrote:
Ah, again we ended up with Xainon defending Serral. In a thread about Dark vs Hurricane. Again we ended up with people involving Serral in a Code S finals discussion and downplaying him for no reason. Still not sure why you would think the fault is mine, "another post devolved into a Serral's achievements discussion" would be more appropriate. Because somehow you always end up entagled here. Whether you're the first person to bring Serral up or not, it seems you find true pleasure in making literally everything about meaningfulness of WCS championship.s As long as there are people casually comparing WCS to Olimoleagues, I can't really stop doing this. I would better understand your point of view if I purposely aimed to convert every unrelated thread into a Serral discussion, but that's really not the case. As long as WCS has worse competition than OIimoleagues, people are going to compare them. Deal with it. This bias is a fine source of neverending entertainment.
Winning WCS is more prestigous than olimoleague given it's a LAN with a lot of money and blizzcon spots on the line. But I think it's clear people are refering to the level of players, in which case you can't really argue that WCS is superior.
The usual players in olimoleagues are INno, Gumiho, Zest, Stats, Solar, Impact and often times soO, herO, and Trap. I'd take them over SpeCial, Showtime, Neeb, and Lambo any day.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
