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Maru defeats Classic, wins 4th consecutive Code S - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
116 CommentsPost a Reply
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Solar424
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
United States4001 Posts
April 15 2019 07:16 GMT
#41
Maru seems unbeatable in preparation-based tournaments, but struggles comparatively in weekenders. He's pretty much the anti-TaeJa at this point.
MarianoSC2
Profile Joined June 2015
Slovakia1855 Posts
April 15 2019 07:22 GMT
#42
On April 15 2019 15:30 insitelol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2019 07:09 Ryu3600 wrote:
Gotta say while there aren't too many builds to take away from this series you can learn a lot on just how to hold protoss cheeses minus proxy tempest of course. But man was that game on kings cove intense.

I'm pretty sure that "learning a lot" involves... building a bunker! or... building a bunker?
Overall, Classic showed complete lack of understanding of the MU or, which is more likely, he just had no confidence against maru (or terrans in general), so he avoided standard plays at all costs. Pretty dissapointing series. But they also prove how broken PvT is. And by that i mean too many agressive options for terran early/mid game which (if executed correctly, and not w/o coinfliping sometimes) makes playing from a protoss perspective a real pain in the ass. Like, for the first half of the game you are paranoid about terran agression hoping to survive till the late game, where you actually don't have any edge against terran compositions that involve ghosts. So yep, protoss still have to rely on gimmicks against competent terrans, who just play their cards cold minded. And almost forgot, you also have to read through numerious tl threads with diamond terrans whining about your race, that's a nuisance too, but i can live with that.



Yes Terrans are crushing it in TvP right now. Oh wait... That is only Maru. Well in that case I guess everything you said is BS. Nice try though!
Top 11: Rogue, Maru, Inno, Zest, Life, sOs, Stats, Dark, soO, Mvp, Classic/Trap/MC/Rain
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
April 15 2019 07:30 GMT
#43
On April 15 2019 15:30 insitelol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2019 07:09 Ryu3600 wrote:
Gotta say while there aren't too many builds to take away from this series you can learn a lot on just how to hold protoss cheeses minus proxy tempest of course. But man was that game on kings cove intense.

I'm pretty sure that "learning a lot" involves... building a bunker! or... building a bunker?
Overall, Classic showed complete lack of understanding of the MU or, which is more likely, he just had no confidence against maru (or terrans in general), so he avoided standard plays at all costs. Pretty dissapointing series. But they also prove how broken PvT is. And by that i mean too many agressive options for terran early/mid game which (if executed correctly, and not w/o coinfliping sometimes) makes playing from a protoss perspective a real pain in the ass. Like, for the first half of the game you are paranoid about terran agression hoping to survive till the late game, where you actually don't have any edge against terran compositions that involve ghosts. So yep, protoss still have to rely on gimmicks against competent terrans, who just play their cards cold minded. And almost forgot, you also have to read through numerious tl threads with diamond terrans whining about your race, that's a nuisance too, but i can live with that.

Super Tournament is just starting with 2 Terrans out of 16 players, one of whom was invited. It seems all the Terrans who didn't qualify need your help as they failed
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
StarcraftSquall
Profile Joined December 2018
United States196 Posts
April 15 2019 08:03 GMT
#44
On April 15 2019 15:57 fronkschnonk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2019 12:55 StarcraftSquall wrote:
Maru is good. But until he plays Serral straight on in a full on series that question will remain out there. Which is why when he’s failed to make his side of the bracket everyone’s been disappointed.

I am hoping we see some more Circuit players in GSL later in the year now that Challenger has been reinstated. That would be more interesting to me than the bottom four Korean players.

Well, Serral really isn't the hottest player right now. Right now Maru needs to beat the likes of Reynor, Innovation, soO and Dark to prove his skill.


IS HE THOUGH?

Let’s think about this for a second...

Serral’s losses this year were very close. They all involved a decider game and weren’t bops except for Neeb in WESG when he was sick (yes he was by his own admission).

Think a little harder... every player that beat him in a tournament stage ended up winning said tournament. He’s not on the same kind of streak Maru is currently but as far as Circuit players is there anyone else you trust to be consistently good and show high quality play at this time?

soO INnoVation and Reynor show flashes of brilliance yes. But no consistency. And that matters.
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
April 15 2019 08:05 GMT
#45
On April 15 2019 17:03 StarcraftSquall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2019 15:57 fronkschnonk wrote:
On April 15 2019 12:55 StarcraftSquall wrote:
Maru is good. But until he plays Serral straight on in a full on series that question will remain out there. Which is why when he’s failed to make his side of the bracket everyone’s been disappointed.

I am hoping we see some more Circuit players in GSL later in the year now that Challenger has been reinstated. That would be more interesting to me than the bottom four Korean players.

Well, Serral really isn't the hottest player right now. Right now Maru needs to beat the likes of Reynor, Innovation, soO and Dark to prove his skill.


IS HE THOUGH?

Let’s think about this for a second...

Serral’s losses this year were very close. They all involved a decider game and weren’t bops except for Neeb in WESG when he was sick (yes he was by his own admission).

Think a little harder... every player that beat him in a tournament stage ended up winning said tournament. He’s not on the same kind of streak Maru is currently but as far as Circuit players is there anyone else you trust to be consistently good and show high quality play at this time?

soO INnoVation and Reynor show flashes of brilliance yes. But no consistency. And that matters.

If you value consistency so much, high win rate over years, many RO8/RO4, 4 code s titles in a row, top proleague player, youngest royal roader... yet it doesn't seem like you have been affected, interesting
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
fronkschnonk
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany622 Posts
April 15 2019 08:41 GMT
#46
On April 15 2019 17:03 StarcraftSquall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2019 15:57 fronkschnonk wrote:
On April 15 2019 12:55 StarcraftSquall wrote:
Maru is good. But until he plays Serral straight on in a full on series that question will remain out there. Which is why when he’s failed to make his side of the bracket everyone’s been disappointed.

I am hoping we see some more Circuit players in GSL later in the year now that Challenger has been reinstated. That would be more interesting to me than the bottom four Korean players.

Well, Serral really isn't the hottest player right now. Right now Maru needs to beat the likes of Reynor, Innovation, soO and Dark to prove his skill.


IS HE THOUGH?

Let’s think about this for a second...

Serral’s losses this year were very close. They all involved a decider game and weren’t bops except for Neeb in WESG when he was sick (yes he was by his own admission).

Think a little harder... every player that beat him in a tournament stage ended up winning said tournament. He’s not on the same kind of streak Maru is currently but as far as Circuit players is there anyone else you trust to be consistently good and show high quality play at this time?

soO INnoVation and Reynor show flashes of brilliance yes. But no consistency. And that matters.

I'm far from saying that Serral isn't a great player anymore but in order to be considered part of the absolute top, you actually have to win stuff. This isn't the case for Serral right now. Especially after losing to Heromarine and to Reynor twice I don't think one can really argue for Serral being top Dog anymore.
Furthermore, I consider that some kind of Code A must be reestablished.
ProFalseIdol
Profile Joined June 2018
70 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-15 10:25:30
April 15 2019 10:24 GMT
#47
With his domination in ProLeague days in 2016, consistent top Terran position, WESG win against TY, a Royal Road win in both 2013 OSL and 2015 SSL, and his 4 consecutive GSL wins. The only player to win all 3 Korean star leagues. If you include his time in Proleague, he has been consistently in at least top 4 of tournaments every year since 2012, just two years after his professional debut at age 13.

Maru is the SC2 Greatest Player of All Time.
xelnaga_empire
Profile Joined March 2012
627 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-15 10:57:30
April 15 2019 10:55 GMT
#48
On April 15 2019 19:24 ProFalseIdol wrote:
With his domination in ProLeague days in 2016, consistent top Terran position, WESG win against TY, a Royal Road win in both 2013 OSL and 2015 SSL, and his 4 consecutive GSL wins. The only player to win all 3 Korean star leagues. If you include his time in Proleague, he has been consistently in at least top 4 of tournaments every year since 2012, just two years after his professional debut at age 13.

Maru is the SC2 Greatest Player of All Time.


Nah. I think Innovation is still the GOAT of all time but it's close between him and Maru, after Maru's 4th GSL win. Innovation has won 9 Premier Tournament titles and came in 3rd/4th and 2nd in a bunch of other premier tournaments: (Wiki)INnoVation

Innovation was also a monster in Pro League and he was the ace player that helped his team win two Pro Leagues - with STX in 2013, and SK Telecom in 2015.

For me, after Innovation won this year's WESG, even the 4th GSL by Maru didn't put him over Innovation, but that is my opinion (WESG is not as difficult and prestigious as GSL, but it was still a nice win by Innovation).

Anyways, this is subjective at this point and we all have different opinions. But if Maru wins more premier tournaments this year and Innovation doesn't, I would consider Maru to be GOAT.

deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
April 15 2019 11:00 GMT
#49
On April 15 2019 19:55 xelnaga_empire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2019 19:24 ProFalseIdol wrote:
With his domination in ProLeague days in 2016, consistent top Terran position, WESG win against TY, a Royal Road win in both 2013 OSL and 2015 SSL, and his 4 consecutive GSL wins. The only player to win all 3 Korean star leagues. If you include his time in Proleague, he has been consistently in at least top 4 of tournaments every year since 2012, just two years after his professional debut at age 13.

Maru is the SC2 Greatest Player of All Time.


Nah. I think Innovation is still the GOAT of all time but it's close between him and Maru, after Maru's 4th GSL win. Innovation has won 9 Premier Tournament titles and came in 3rd/4th and 2nd in a bunch of other premier tournaments: (Wiki)INnoVation

Innovation was also a monster in Pro League and he was the ace player that helped his team win two Pro Leagues - with STX in 2013, and SK Telecom in 2015.

For me, after Innovation won this year's WESG, even the 4th GSL by Maru didn't put him over Innovation, but that is my opinion (WESG is not as difficult and prestigious as GSL, but it was still a nice win by Innovation).

Anyways, this is subjective at this point and we all have different opinions. But if Maru wins more premier tournaments this year and Innovation doesn't, I would consider Maru to be GOAT.


Well you have to consider 4 Code S titles in a row. Which sounds a tiny differently than "just" 4 code s titles
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
April 15 2019 11:25 GMT
#50
You have to consider Maru's PL record too.
TL+ Member
ProFalseIdol
Profile Joined June 2018
70 Posts
April 15 2019 12:30 GMT
#51
On April 15 2019 20:00 deacon.frost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2019 19:55 xelnaga_empire wrote:
On April 15 2019 19:24 ProFalseIdol wrote:
With his domination in ProLeague days in 2016, consistent top Terran position, WESG win against TY, a Royal Road win in both 2013 OSL and 2015 SSL, and his 4 consecutive GSL wins. The only player to win all 3 Korean star leagues. If you include his time in Proleague, he has been consistently in at least top 4 of tournaments every year since 2012, just two years after his professional debut at age 13.

Maru is the SC2 Greatest Player of All Time.


Nah. I think Innovation is still the GOAT of all time but it's close between him and Maru, after Maru's 4th GSL win. Innovation has won 9 Premier Tournament titles and came in 3rd/4th and 2nd in a bunch of other premier tournaments: (Wiki)INnoVation

Innovation was also a monster in Pro League and he was the ace player that helped his team win two Pro Leagues - with STX in 2013, and SK Telecom in 2015.

For me, after Innovation won this year's WESG, even the 4th GSL by Maru didn't put him over Innovation, but that is my opinion (WESG is not as difficult and prestigious as GSL, but it was still a nice win by Innovation).

Anyways, this is subjective at this point and we all have different opinions. But if Maru wins more premier tournaments this year and Innovation doesn't, I would consider Maru to be GOAT.


Well you have to consider 4 Code S titles in a row. Which sounds a tiny differently than "just" 4 code s titles


4 GSL Code S in a row is MASSIVE. Also, Maru is the only player to have double Royal Road in SC2 and the only other player to achieve this is BoxeR.

I think it's time to put Maru's picture here:
https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/8/84/Bonjwa2.png
ubikz
Profile Joined March 2015
69 Posts
April 15 2019 12:52 GMT
#52
On April 15 2019 21:30 ProFalseIdol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2019 20:00 deacon.frost wrote:
On April 15 2019 19:55 xelnaga_empire wrote:
On April 15 2019 19:24 ProFalseIdol wrote:
With his domination in ProLeague days in 2016, consistent top Terran position, WESG win against TY, a Royal Road win in both 2013 OSL and 2015 SSL, and his 4 consecutive GSL wins. The only player to win all 3 Korean star leagues. If you include his time in Proleague, he has been consistently in at least top 4 of tournaments every year since 2012, just two years after his professional debut at age 13.

Maru is the SC2 Greatest Player of All Time.


Nah. I think Innovation is still the GOAT of all time but it's close between him and Maru, after Maru's 4th GSL win. Innovation has won 9 Premier Tournament titles and came in 3rd/4th and 2nd in a bunch of other premier tournaments: (Wiki)INnoVation

Innovation was also a monster in Pro League and he was the ace player that helped his team win two Pro Leagues - with STX in 2013, and SK Telecom in 2015.

For me, after Innovation won this year's WESG, even the 4th GSL by Maru didn't put him over Innovation, but that is my opinion (WESG is not as difficult and prestigious as GSL, but it was still a nice win by Innovation).

Anyways, this is subjective at this point and we all have different opinions. But if Maru wins more premier tournaments this year and Innovation doesn't, I would consider Maru to be GOAT.


Well you have to consider 4 Code S titles in a row. Which sounds a tiny differently than "just" 4 code s titles


4 GSL Code S in a row is MASSIVE. Also, Maru is the only player to have double Royal Road in SC2 and the only other player to achieve this is BoxeR.

I think it's time to put Maru's picture here:
https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/8/84/Bonjwa2.png


I agree. "In a row" is key here. And bonjwa concept isn't literally applicable in Sc2 because BW was different: less volatile, different competition schedule, etc. Extended domination is harder in Sc2.
Rodya
Profile Joined January 2018
546 Posts
April 15 2019 13:34 GMT
#53
Polt and Kiwian (TOP) both mention how the jet lag and travel fatique from traveling to a foreigner event is a significant issue for some Koreans. Maru probably suffers from this too.

Can we stop calling Maru a double royal roader though? Didn't he win the very first SSL? Seriously, stop it with this nonsense. And he won the second SC2 OSL... these are not impressive royal roads and no one considers him a royal roader other than some trolls on here. Life is a royal roader, Dear is a royal roader. Maru is not.
Banned for saying "zerg players are by far the biggest whiners in sc2 history" despite the fact that this forum is full of such posts about Terrans. Foreigner Elitists in control!
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-15 15:56:01
April 15 2019 13:43 GMT
#54
Recency bias and Code S bias are making people proclaim Maru undisputed GOAT; if you look at his results more objectively, that's not the case, but he isn't that far and might very well become the most accomplished player over time if Inno stops winning. It is one understandable call, overall.

Calling Maru bonjwa(assuming the term can be applied to Sc2) is instead inappropriate; his best streak took place last year from mid March to mid September when he won WESG and three Code S seasons while losing at Super Tourament I and GSL vs the World. That's a terrific streak, strictly better than Rogue's who went 4/7(July 2017-March 2018) but arguably worse than Life's who won five out of eight Premier tournaments in five months(October 2012-March 2013, Maru would be only 3/5 if we consider the same time span). Moreover, Serral's streak(5/5 or 6/6 albeit three of these being WCS tournaments) in 2018 partially overlaps with Maru's and the title of bonjwa is tied to unchallenged domination(Flash became one after defeating his contender Jaedong in three consecutive starleague finals in 2010); none of the Sc2 players mentioned above truly is a bonjwa but I'd say Life is the closest we ever got.

It's weird that the bonjwa calls for Maru are made now as, after Code S3 2018, he lost at Super Tournament, BlizzCon, IEM Katowice 2019 and WESG before winning again this last Code S title. It's one outstanding accomplishment in regards of his career, but in no way it makes him a bonjwa: no one is dominating Sc2 in 2019, we had different winners in every Premier tournament.
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
April 15 2019 15:09 GMT
#55
On April 15 2019 22:43 Xain0n wrote:
Recency bias and Code S bias are making people proclaim Maru undisputed GOAT; if you look at his results more objectively, that's not the case, but he isn't that far and might very well become the most accomplished player over time if Inno stops winning. It is one understandable call, overall.

Calling Maru bonjwa(assuming the term can be applied to Sc2) is instead inappropriate; his best streak took place last year from mid March to mid September when he won WESG and three Code S seasons while losing at Super Tourament I and GSL vs the World. That's a terrific streak, strictly better than Rogue's who went 4/7(July 2017-March 2018) but arguably worse than Life's who won five out of eight Premier tournaments in five months(October 2012-March 2013, Maru would be only 3/5 if we consider the same time span). Moreover, Serral's streak(5/5 or 6/6 albeit three of these being WCS tournaments so let's not make) in 2018 partially overlaps with Maru's and the title of bonjwa is tied to unchallenged domination(Flash became one after defeating his contender Jaedong in three consecutive starleague finals in 2010); none of the Sc2 players mentioned above truly is a bonjwa but I'd say Life is the closest we ever got.

It's weird that the bonjwa calls for Maru are made now as, after Code S3 2018, he lost at Super Tournament, BlizzCon, IEM Katowice 2019 and WESG before winning again this last Code S title. It's one outstanding accomplishment in regards of his career, but in no way it makes him a bonjwa: no one is dominating Sc2 in 2019, we had different winners in every Premier tournaments.
it's pretty simple, GSL has been around forever so people falsely associate "prestige" of an older tournament with that tournament actually being more difficult than others. just like when SSL was an equally hard tournament with mostly the same players but everyone acted like GSL was the "real" championship just because the sponsors were different lol
TL+ Member
fishjie
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1519 Posts
April 15 2019 15:23 GMT
#56
maru is a god why are people still crying about him being bonjwa goat legend? makes no sense. he can lose all his games after this and it still makes no difference. serral has already fallen off, losing in WCS which was "his" tournament and also in the other tourneys. game over man

what a glorious resume
(Wiki)Maru
Hvvacha
Profile Joined April 2018
82 Posts
April 15 2019 16:20 GMT
#57
the biggest mystery is why maru tried to counter proxy tempests with cyclones lol, inno showed that perfect counter is vikings.
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
April 15 2019 17:02 GMT
#58
On April 15 2019 22:34 Rodya wrote:
Polt and Kiwian (TOP) both mention how the jet lag and travel fatique from traveling to a foreigner event is a significant issue for some Koreans. Maru probably suffers from this too.

Can we stop calling Maru a double royal roader though? Didn't he win the very first SSL? Seriously, stop it with this nonsense. And he won the second SC2 OSL... these are not impressive royal roads and no one considers him a royal roader other than some trolls on here. Life is a royal roader, Dear is a royal roader. Maru is not.

Royal road is nothing else than winning that tournament the first time you qualify for the main rounds (i always thought this added qualifier is dumb if anything else). It stems from OSL specifically but people used it for starleagues in general.
GRRRR is a royal roader, just like maru royal roaded both OSL and SSL. No trolling required
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
ubikz
Profile Joined March 2015
69 Posts
April 15 2019 17:11 GMT
#59
In BW the tournaments that articulated the scene were OSL, MSL and such. Proleague was too a nice touchstone, all bonjwas had crazy win ratios all across the board. Back in BW days there was Blizzcon Inv., but the true touchstone were the periodic and regular tournaments: OSL and MSL.

Bonjwas didn't win all in Korea, they won certain tournaments on a regular basis, OSL and MSL essentially. That GSL inherited that key rol is just a fact, not any kind of bias thing. You can discuss the importance of Blizzcon or other big big tournaments nowadays, you can compare 2018 Serral vs 2018 Maru, you can argue the state of korean sc2 scene, etc. You can compare everything, its just a videogame xd But you can't become the sc2 GOAT or bonjwa without competing in Korea and winning GSL. Thats a fact. And I'm a big Serral fanboy. Maybe it's unfair, like other traditions, but its how sc scene works.
Doink
Profile Joined April 2017
75 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-15 17:23:31
April 15 2019 17:23 GMT
#60
On April 15 2019 19:24 ProFalseIdol wrote:
With his domination in ProLeague days in 2016, consistent top Terran position, WESG win against TY, a Royal Road win in both 2013 OSL and 2015 SSL, and his 4 consecutive GSL wins. The only player to win all 3 Korean star leagues. If you include his time in Proleague, he has been consistently in at least top 4 of tournaments every year since 2012, just two years after his professional debut at age 13.

Maru is the SC2 Greatest Player of All Time.


A GOAT losing weekend tourneys in the early stages is quite a disappointing GOAT.
Inno is a more suitable candidate for GOAT.

Maybe Maru can manage to not get kicked out of tournaments early this year. Maybe he can even reach Reynor or Serral.
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