Maru defeats Classic, wins 4th consecutive Code S - Page 3
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
On April 15 2019 15:30 insitelol wrote: I'm pretty sure that "learning a lot" involves... building a bunker! or... building a bunker? Overall, Classic showed complete lack of understanding of the MU or, which is more likely, he just had no confidence against maru (or terrans in general), so he avoided standard plays at all costs. Pretty dissapointing series. But they also prove how broken PvT is. And by that i mean too many agressive options for terran early/mid game which (if executed correctly, and not w/o coinfliping sometimes) makes playing from a protoss perspective a real pain in the ass. Like, for the first half of the game you are paranoid about terran agression hoping to survive till the late game, where you actually don't have any edge against terran compositions that involve ghosts. So yep, protoss still have to rely on gimmicks against competent terrans, who just play their cards cold minded. And almost forgot, you also have to read through numerious tl threads with diamond terrans whining about your race, that's a nuisance too, but i can live with that. Yes Terrans are crushing it in TvP right now. Oh wait... That is only Maru. Well in that case I guess everything you said is BS. Nice try though! | ||
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12116 Posts
On April 15 2019 15:30 insitelol wrote: I'm pretty sure that "learning a lot" involves... building a bunker! or... building a bunker? Overall, Classic showed complete lack of understanding of the MU or, which is more likely, he just had no confidence against maru (or terrans in general), so he avoided standard plays at all costs. Pretty dissapointing series. But they also prove how broken PvT is. And by that i mean too many agressive options for terran early/mid game which (if executed correctly, and not w/o coinfliping sometimes) makes playing from a protoss perspective a real pain in the ass. Like, for the first half of the game you are paranoid about terran agression hoping to survive till the late game, where you actually don't have any edge against terran compositions that involve ghosts. So yep, protoss still have to rely on gimmicks against competent terrans, who just play their cards cold minded. And almost forgot, you also have to read through numerious tl threads with diamond terrans whining about your race, that's a nuisance too, but i can live with that. Super Tournament is just starting with 2 Terrans out of 16 players, one of whom was invited. It seems all the Terrans who didn't qualify need your help as they failed | ||
StarcraftSquall
United States196 Posts
On April 15 2019 15:57 fronkschnonk wrote: Well, Serral really isn't the hottest player right now. Right now Maru needs to beat the likes of Reynor, Innovation, soO and Dark to prove his skill. IS HE THOUGH? Let’s think about this for a second... Serral’s losses this year were very close. They all involved a decider game and weren’t bops except for Neeb in WESG when he was sick (yes he was by his own admission). Think a little harder... every player that beat him in a tournament stage ended up winning said tournament. He’s not on the same kind of streak Maru is currently but as far as Circuit players is there anyone else you trust to be consistently good and show high quality play at this time? soO INnoVation and Reynor show flashes of brilliance yes. But no consistency. And that matters. | ||
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12116 Posts
On April 15 2019 17:03 StarcraftSquall wrote: IS HE THOUGH? Let’s think about this for a second... Serral’s losses this year were very close. They all involved a decider game and weren’t bops except for Neeb in WESG when he was sick (yes he was by his own admission). Think a little harder... every player that beat him in a tournament stage ended up winning said tournament. He’s not on the same kind of streak Maru is currently but as far as Circuit players is there anyone else you trust to be consistently good and show high quality play at this time? soO INnoVation and Reynor show flashes of brilliance yes. But no consistency. And that matters. If you value consistency so much, high win rate over years, many RO8/RO4, 4 code s titles in a row, top proleague player, youngest royal roader... yet it doesn't seem like you have been affected, interesting | ||
fronkschnonk
Germany622 Posts
On April 15 2019 17:03 StarcraftSquall wrote: IS HE THOUGH? Let’s think about this for a second... Serral’s losses this year were very close. They all involved a decider game and weren’t bops except for Neeb in WESG when he was sick (yes he was by his own admission). Think a little harder... every player that beat him in a tournament stage ended up winning said tournament. He’s not on the same kind of streak Maru is currently but as far as Circuit players is there anyone else you trust to be consistently good and show high quality play at this time? soO INnoVation and Reynor show flashes of brilliance yes. But no consistency. And that matters. I'm far from saying that Serral isn't a great player anymore but in order to be considered part of the absolute top, you actually have to win stuff. This isn't the case for Serral right now. Especially after losing to Heromarine and to Reynor twice I don't think one can really argue for Serral being top Dog anymore. | ||
ProFalseIdol
70 Posts
Maru is the SC2 Greatest Player of All Time. | ||
xelnaga_empire
613 Posts
On April 15 2019 19:24 ProFalseIdol wrote: With his domination in ProLeague days in 2016, consistent top Terran position, WESG win against TY, a Royal Road win in both 2013 OSL and 2015 SSL, and his 4 consecutive GSL wins. The only player to win all 3 Korean star leagues. If you include his time in Proleague, he has been consistently in at least top 4 of tournaments every year since 2012, just two years after his professional debut at age 13. Maru is the SC2 Greatest Player of All Time. Nah. I think Innovation is still the GOAT of all time but it's close between him and Maru, after Maru's 4th GSL win. Innovation has won 9 Premier Tournament titles and came in 3rd/4th and 2nd in a bunch of other premier tournaments: INnoVation Innovation was also a monster in Pro League and he was the ace player that helped his team win two Pro Leagues - with STX in 2013, and SK Telecom in 2015. For me, after Innovation won this year's WESG, even the 4th GSL by Maru didn't put him over Innovation, but that is my opinion (WESG is not as difficult and prestigious as GSL, but it was still a nice win by Innovation). Anyways, this is subjective at this point and we all have different opinions. But if Maru wins more premier tournaments this year and Innovation doesn't, I would consider Maru to be GOAT. | ||
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12116 Posts
On April 15 2019 19:55 xelnaga_empire wrote: Nah. I think Innovation is still the GOAT of all time but it's close between him and Maru, after Maru's 4th GSL win. Innovation has won 9 Premier Tournament titles and came in 3rd/4th and 2nd in a bunch of other premier tournaments: INnoVation Innovation was also a monster in Pro League and he was the ace player that helped his team win two Pro Leagues - with STX in 2013, and SK Telecom in 2015. For me, after Innovation won this year's WESG, even the 4th GSL by Maru didn't put him over Innovation, but that is my opinion (WESG is not as difficult and prestigious as GSL, but it was still a nice win by Innovation). Anyways, this is subjective at this point and we all have different opinions. But if Maru wins more premier tournaments this year and Innovation doesn't, I would consider Maru to be GOAT. Well you have to consider 4 Code S titles in a row. Which sounds a tiny differently than "just" 4 code s titles | ||
DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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ProFalseIdol
70 Posts
On April 15 2019 20:00 deacon.frost wrote: Well you have to consider 4 Code S titles in a row. Which sounds a tiny differently than "just" 4 code s titles 4 GSL Code S in a row is MASSIVE. Also, Maru is the only player to have double Royal Road in SC2 and the only other player to achieve this is BoxeR. I think it's time to put Maru's picture here: https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/8/84/Bonjwa2.png | ||
ubikz
69 Posts
On April 15 2019 21:30 ProFalseIdol wrote: 4 GSL Code S in a row is MASSIVE. Also, Maru is the only player to have double Royal Road in SC2 and the only other player to achieve this is BoxeR. I think it's time to put Maru's picture here: https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/8/84/Bonjwa2.png I agree. "In a row" is key here. And bonjwa concept isn't literally applicable in Sc2 because BW was different: less volatile, different competition schedule, etc. Extended domination is harder in Sc2. | ||
Rodya
546 Posts
Can we stop calling Maru a double royal roader though? Didn't he win the very first SSL? Seriously, stop it with this nonsense. And he won the second SC2 OSL... these are not impressive royal roads and no one considers him a royal roader other than some trolls on here. Life is a royal roader, Dear is a royal roader. Maru is not. | ||
Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
Calling Maru bonjwa(assuming the term can be applied to Sc2) is instead inappropriate; his best streak took place last year from mid March to mid September when he won WESG and three Code S seasons while losing at Super Tourament I and GSL vs the World. That's a terrific streak, strictly better than Rogue's who went 4/7(July 2017-March 2018) but arguably worse than Life's who won five out of eight Premier tournaments in five months(October 2012-March 2013, Maru would be only 3/5 if we consider the same time span). Moreover, Serral's streak(5/5 or 6/6 albeit three of these being WCS tournaments) in 2018 partially overlaps with Maru's and the title of bonjwa is tied to unchallenged domination(Flash became one after defeating his contender Jaedong in three consecutive starleague finals in 2010); none of the Sc2 players mentioned above truly is a bonjwa but I'd say Life is the closest we ever got. It's weird that the bonjwa calls for Maru are made now as, after Code S3 2018, he lost at Super Tournament, BlizzCon, IEM Katowice 2019 and WESG before winning again this last Code S title. It's one outstanding accomplishment in regards of his career, but in no way it makes him a bonjwa: no one is dominating Sc2 in 2019, we had different winners in every Premier tournament. | ||
brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On April 15 2019 22:43 Xain0n wrote: it's pretty simple, GSL has been around forever so people falsely associate "prestige" of an older tournament with that tournament actually being more difficult than others. just like when SSL was an equally hard tournament with mostly the same players but everyone acted like GSL was the "real" championship just because the sponsors were different lolRecency bias and Code S bias are making people proclaim Maru undisputed GOAT; if you look at his results more objectively, that's not the case, but he isn't that far and might very well become the most accomplished player over time if Inno stops winning. It is one understandable call, overall. Calling Maru bonjwa(assuming the term can be applied to Sc2) is instead inappropriate; his best streak took place last year from mid March to mid September when he won WESG and three Code S seasons while losing at Super Tourament I and GSL vs the World. That's a terrific streak, strictly better than Rogue's who went 4/7(July 2017-March 2018) but arguably worse than Life's who won five out of eight Premier tournaments in five months(October 2012-March 2013, Maru would be only 3/5 if we consider the same time span). Moreover, Serral's streak(5/5 or 6/6 albeit three of these being WCS tournaments so let's not make) in 2018 partially overlaps with Maru's and the title of bonjwa is tied to unchallenged domination(Flash became one after defeating his contender Jaedong in three consecutive starleague finals in 2010); none of the Sc2 players mentioned above truly is a bonjwa but I'd say Life is the closest we ever got. It's weird that the bonjwa calls for Maru are made now as, after Code S3 2018, he lost at Super Tournament, BlizzCon, IEM Katowice 2019 and WESG before winning again this last Code S title. It's one outstanding accomplishment in regards of his career, but in no way it makes him a bonjwa: no one is dominating Sc2 in 2019, we had different winners in every Premier tournaments. | ||
fishjie
United States1519 Posts
what a glorious resume Maru | ||
Hvvacha
79 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On April 15 2019 22:34 Rodya wrote: Polt and Kiwian (TOP) both mention how the jet lag and travel fatique from traveling to a foreigner event is a significant issue for some Koreans. Maru probably suffers from this too. Can we stop calling Maru a double royal roader though? Didn't he win the very first SSL? Seriously, stop it with this nonsense. And he won the second SC2 OSL... these are not impressive royal roads and no one considers him a royal roader other than some trolls on here. Life is a royal roader, Dear is a royal roader. Maru is not. Royal road is nothing else than winning that tournament the first time you qualify for the main rounds (i always thought this added qualifier is dumb if anything else). It stems from OSL specifically but people used it for starleagues in general. GRRRR is a royal roader, just like maru royal roaded both OSL and SSL. No trolling required | ||
ubikz
69 Posts
Bonjwas didn't win all in Korea, they won certain tournaments on a regular basis, OSL and MSL essentially. That GSL inherited that key rol is just a fact, not any kind of bias thing. You can discuss the importance of Blizzcon or other big big tournaments nowadays, you can compare 2018 Serral vs 2018 Maru, you can argue the state of korean sc2 scene, etc. You can compare everything, its just a videogame xd But you can't become the sc2 GOAT or bonjwa without competing in Korea and winning GSL. Thats a fact. And I'm a big Serral fanboy. Maybe it's unfair, like other traditions, but its how sc scene works. | ||
Doink
75 Posts
On April 15 2019 19:24 ProFalseIdol wrote: With his domination in ProLeague days in 2016, consistent top Terran position, WESG win against TY, a Royal Road win in both 2013 OSL and 2015 SSL, and his 4 consecutive GSL wins. The only player to win all 3 Korean star leagues. If you include his time in Proleague, he has been consistently in at least top 4 of tournaments every year since 2012, just two years after his professional debut at age 13. Maru is the SC2 Greatest Player of All Time. A GOAT losing weekend tourneys in the early stages is quite a disappointing GOAT. Inno is a more suitable candidate for GOAT. Maybe Maru can manage to not get kicked out of tournaments early this year. Maybe he can even reach Reynor or Serral. | ||
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