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The StarCraft II World Championship Series (WCS) operates via official rulesets, which were established to set expectations around the rules of tournament play and structure, player eligibility, points, prizes, sponsorships, and player conduct. All players accept these rules in order to participate in our tournaments and are expected to abide by them at all times.
All administrative decisions related to tournaments governed by Blizzard's official StarCraft II WCS ruleset can be found here.
WCS Winter 2019 - January 2019
Cyan, JieShi, Route, and Nice have been disqualified from WCS Winter 2019 and banned from Blizzard Esports competition until May 31, 2019.
During the ladder race of WCS Winter—Americas, Route played several suspicious matches with cyan, JieShi, and Nice. Upon review of these matches and accounts in question, it was found that several of the matches were intentionally lost by Route to the other three players involved. Nice, cyan, and JieShi were found to be colluding to intentionally trade wins with the Route account. Finally, it was discovered that both cyan and JieShi were logging into the Route account during the competition as part of this effort. This behavior is prohibited in our tournament rules under section 6.2.a. Specifically, players are prohibited from “collusion, match fixing or any other action to intentionally alter, or attempt to alter [any game], including losing a game or match with another player in order to advance one or the other’s rank,” as well as “allowing an individual who is not the registered owner of a Battle.net account to play on that Battle.net account in StarCraft II or any other Blizzard game.”
Based on this disqualification, Max "Astrea" Angel, Maru "MaSa" Kim, and Erik “Erik” Braga Bermelho will qualify for WCS Winter from their ladder rankings at the conclusion of the ladder race.
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Yikes. Well hopefully this sends another message to cheaters. Reddit police WILL catch you and the Blizz Ban Hammer will come down.
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It's awful that this has happened, and with so many players at that. Well done, however, to the community (Jjangbi and Hjax in particular) for its work in detecting this and to Blizzard for the quick response.
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Canada11355 Posts
I'm glad this was resolved quickly and painlessly
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On January 16 2019 09:29 Fecalfeast wrote: I'm glad this was resolved quickly and painlessly Maybe not so painless
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Great job Blizzard and congratulations to Astrea, MaSa and Erik.
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If that's the case, Nice needs to appeal and we need to do some more investigation.
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On January 16 2019 09:23 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: It's awful that this has happened, you know the old NASCAR saying? : " if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin' "
cheating and fraud are an ever present possibility in all forms of sport and competition.
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On January 16 2019 09:56 phodacbiet wrote:If that's the case, Nice needs to appeal and we need to do some more investigation.
NICE apologised on facebook. According to his apology, he did not know the true identity of Route but noticed that he gave free wins to Chinese speakung accounts. However, in the last few minutes he intentionaly messaged Route to give him a free win when he found Astrea and Puck were doing a suspicious game. However, the official end time is 11.59 min exact but Astrea and Puck left at 11.59.58 so that game DID NOT COUNT. But HIS last game against Route was INTENTIONAL and the game ended at 11.58 and thus was effective.
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On January 16 2019 10:20 busyghost wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2019 09:56 phodacbiet wrote:If that's the case, Nice needs to appeal and we need to do some more investigation. NICE apologised on facebook. According to his apology, he did not know the true identity of Route but noticed that he gave free wins to Chinese speakung accounts. However, in the last few minutes he intentionaly messaged Route to give him a free win when he found Astrea and Puck were doing a suspicious game. However, the official end time is 11.59 min exact but Astrea and Puck left at 11.59.58 so that game DID NOT COUNT. But HIS last game against Route was INTENTIONAL and the game ended at 11.58 and thus was effective.
Gee, this double however looks awful, but you should get what i mean hopefully
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On January 16 2019 10:20 busyghost wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2019 09:56 phodacbiet wrote:If that's the case, Nice needs to appeal and we need to do some more investigation. NICE apologised on facebook. According to his apology, he did not know the true identity of Route but noticed that he gave free wins to Chinese speakung accounts. However, in the last few minutes he intentionaly messaged Route to give him a free win when he found Astrea and Puck were doing a suspicious game. However, the official end time is 11.59 min exact but Astrea and Puck left at 11.59.58 so that game DID NOT COUNT. But HIS last game against Route was INTENTIONAL and the game ended at 11.58 and thus was effective.
I mean if Astrea and Puck were colluding they should also get banned regardless of whether they made the deadline or not. However, if they were merely rushing each other because they were trying to finish the game before 11.59 then that's not against the rules I think.
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Yeah, I don't have the information Blizzard does, but if Astrea knowingly had a thrown game, he should be banned. Zero tolerance.
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Good decisions, but i feel like Cyan and Jieshi should get a harder punishment than nice since they were actively wintrading. Also even so the Astrea vs Puck game did not count it looks like they were attempting to cheat as well which isnt really sportsmanlike either.
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On January 16 2019 10:25 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2019 10:20 busyghost wrote:On January 16 2019 09:56 phodacbiet wrote:If that's the case, Nice needs to appeal and we need to do some more investigation. NICE apologised on facebook. According to his apology, he did not know the true identity of Route but noticed that he gave free wins to Chinese speakung accounts. However, in the last few minutes he intentionaly messaged Route to give him a free win when he found Astrea and Puck were doing a suspicious game. However, the official end time is 11.59 min exact but Astrea and Puck left at 11.59.58 so that game DID NOT COUNT. But HIS last game against Route was INTENTIONAL and the game ended at 11.58 and thus was effective. I mean if Astrea and Puck were colluding they should also get banned regardless of whether they made the deadline or not. However, if they were merely rushing each other because they were trying to finish the game before 11.59 then that's not against the rules I think.
There is no strong evidence for their collusion, and if they did they made a mistake of about the deadline time.
For the case of Cyan, Jieshi and NICE, Jieshi and Cyan have used Route's account directly during the three-day, and NICE intentionally messaged Route in-game for a free win. These were backed by evidence and a witness.
So it makes good sense in the end. If Astrea and Puck's game ended at exact 11.58.50 then it gets more suspicious but there is still need of hard evidence.
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Where's the NA qualifier thread?
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Nice admitted this in his Facebook.
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On January 16 2019 09:56 phodacbiet wrote:If that's the case, Nice needs to appeal and we need to do some more investigation. sometimes it's just the case that the person being caught cheating is lying about it. cheating and lying tend to go together if you hadn't heard
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On January 16 2019 10:55 FBTsingLoong wrote: Nice admitted this in his Facebook. source please? it is a step in the right direction. i'm glad to see that.
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On January 16 2019 11:06 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2019 10:55 FBTsingLoong wrote: Nice admitted this in his Facebook. source please? it is a step in the right direction. i'm glad to see that.
https://www.facebook.com/NiceAFTW/posts/2261227317454390?__xts__[0]=68.ARDTVrQnfaMaKkosTUPODIFhR2oCAKga9MSxhVwtJWO4DecfLVf7jCgGGnnN-UP8tuAeEeCkyoZ9rfk43ffsbvjGwphdOyVSUIYW2HOQyV9zJ2rCotg49a4Bnfg2ReXREAanp3HsmQRvnhgUhji2pUcWgfm7JUMDcueu5K6arQjs-7jGkUiyEcEkizK8diTo1Iium35Q7jzxC5xNTfYxhneM2QDUJF-dXCMllN52fLxpUPXmxZNOlkQX04uY-2w9099yBk6qJLqSuAnmfnZ8MoxSLrmzrjm5mA_xg-hjCZ9wzWTUYLv-qOQFrct9tIDVAGMVvbt3tU21iQIb3sZjlHZeuW65&__tn__=-R
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Puck and Astrea should be banned as well in this case.
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They are trying too hard to kill the scene.
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So these individuals were found guilty of #collusion. Hoping that some other individuals are found guilty of #collusion as well.
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Well done Blizzard and a big thank you to the people who flagged this in the first place. Keep the scene honest!
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I think the problem is still the online ladder qualifier which make people think that they have the chance to cheat and not being caught. In the future this will be happened again if there are still this kind of qualifying way.
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Europe qualifier was fine and fun.
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I can't imagine Nice just making the collusion between Puck and Astrea completely up. I am not sure what the replay analysis did to explain why Nice believed they were colluding.
Also, Nice should get less sentencing since he has done something else than Cyan and Jieshi: the time has to fit the crime. Regarding the time, I feel like Cyan and Jieshi got away with so little punishment. I would have banned them for the whole season and they only got banned until about the end of WCS Winter
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Czech Republic12115 Posts
On January 16 2019 17:22 shadow4723 wrote: I can't imagine Nice just making the collusion between Puck and Astrea completely up. I am not sure what the replay analysis did to explain why Nice believed they were colluding.
Also, Nice should get less sentencing since he has done something else than Cyan and Jieshi: the time has to fit the crime. Regarding the time, I feel like Cyan and Jieshi got away with so little punishment. I would have banned them for the whole season and they only got banned until about the end of WCS Winter Well, there's one hypothesis that is the most obvious and the most easy to spot. I leave the rest upon you
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On January 16 2019 17:22 shadow4723 wrote: I can't imagine Nice just making the collusion between Puck and Astrea completely up. I am not sure what the replay analysis did to explain why Nice believed they were colluding.
Also, Nice should get less sentencing since he has done something else than Cyan and Jieshi: the time has to fit the crime. Regarding the time, I feel like Cyan and Jieshi got away with so little punishment. I would have banned them for the whole season and they only got banned until about the end of WCS Winter
My best bet is that as the deadline was closing, it's harder to play more standard games, and thus as P players, the games devolve further and further into stupid looking games. That however, does not mean they were colluding together. Perhaps, both playing incredibly dumb to get a win quickly. At that point in the competition, and with the chinese players gaining points quickly, a loss is pretty much irrelevant, you just need points as fast as you can, and then try to not leave the game if you're gonna lose so it goes past the deadline if possible if u play vs some1 u dont want to gain points, or just leave if u dont mind losing to a person at that point
Astrea was also streaming at this time to my knowledge?, cant really remember, but he was actively streaming some of it, and for how much puck grinds ladder/duration of his involvement in WCS, it just seems way too far-fetched to me. If blizzard also came to a similar conclusion, with the replay in their possession, then really all we can do is trust their decision unless there is real reason to suspect otherwise.... and coming from the people who just tried to rig essentially 4 spots... that doesn't lend much weight to an argument.
I'm glad Blizzard gave a longer sentence this time around than the last infractions by players; and if it happens again, I hope the length doubles again.
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On January 16 2019 10:27 Pandain wrote: Yeah, I don't have the information Blizzard does, but if Astrea knowingly had a thrown game, he should be banned. Zero tolerance.
Yes, the reason why there are not punished (being not effective cuz they were a few seconds late) is ridiculous. Edit : my bad, should have read the whole thread.
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On January 16 2019 17:05 Howard_Kao wrote: I think the problem is still the online ladder qualifier which make people think that they have the chance to cheat and not being caught. In the future this will be happened again if there are still this kind of qualifying way.
It will promote better acting I guess.. The lessons for potential cheaters are obvious for the last three occasions in SC2.
1. Do never try to do instant quit games, they are too obvious.
2. Do not cross share accounts, most of the time players were caught via this method since it's easy to trace IPs.
3. Whatever contact methods you use with your friends, do never use in-game chat and do not publish intents on public social media.
4. Do make the games vary like not using the same all-in strategy over and over again.
5. Do not try to win all the time it looks too suspicious, lol but DNS tried to win 2 lose 1 i if I remember but he was still caught.
Anyone wants to add?
The major evidence for Cyan and Jieshi to get caught hard was:
1. The change of hot key setup and was similar to the ones Cyan used 2. The 0s free wins given to Jieshi, Cyan and Nice's accounts, literally instant quits. 3. Cyan found Route on his fan club group, and the chat history was exposed. 4. Route was investigated and gave in the details. 5. The in-game stats showed that both Cyan and Jieshi's IP address have shared Route's accounts.
4 and 5 were the most lethal
The major evidence for Nice to be punished was just one:
1. He asked Route's account for a quick free win before the deadline time, using in-game chat.
Maybe "smarter" cheaters can analyse these and cheat even better. Ultimately this method is pretty much just:
1. get your main account's MMR high enough and stop there. 2. Use a threshold MMR account (like 6000-6200MMRish0) to stop competitors from beblow.
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On January 16 2019 18:48 busyghost wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2019 17:05 Howard_Kao wrote: I think the problem is still the online ladder qualifier which make people think that they have the chance to cheat and not being caught. In the future this will be happened again if there are still this kind of qualifying way.
It will promote better acting I guess.. The lessons for potential cheaters are obvious for the last three occasions in SC2. 1. Do never try to do instant quit games, they are too obvious. 2. Do not cross share accounts, most of the time players were caught via this method since it's easy to trace IPs. 3. Whatever contact methods you use with your friends, do never use in-game chat and do not publish intents on public social media. 4. Do make the games vary like not using the same all-in strategy over and over again. 5. Do not try to win all the time it looks too suspicious, lol but DNS tried to win 2 lose 1 i if I remember but he was still caught. Anyone wants to add? The major evidence for Cyan and Jieshi to get caught hard was: 1. The change of hot key setup and was similar to the ones Cyan used 2. The 0s free wins given to Jieshi, Cyan and Nice's accounts, literally instant quits. 3. Cyan found Route on his fan club group, and the chat history was exposed. 4. Route was investigated and gave in the details. 5. The in-game stats showed that both Cyan and Jieshi's IP address have shared Route's accounts. 4 and 5 were the most lethal The major evidence for Nice to be punished was just one: 1. He asked Route's account for a quick free win before the deadline time, using in-game chat. Maybe "smarter" cheaters can analyse these and cheat even better. Ultimately this method is pretty much just: 1. get your main account's MMR high enough and stop there. 2. Use a threshold MMR account (like 6000-6200MMRish0) to stop competitors from beblow.
At least BLZ should stop using those ladder standing at specific moment as the criteria, which make winning or losing one single game matters too much in the last moment. Something like average MMR in the final day would be a much more reasonable factor.
Basically Cyan, Jieshi and Nice are fully capable of getting 6.4kMMR without doubt, but they 'panic cheat' when they see Puck losing 3 games in a row to Astrea.
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honestly feels unfair to Nice on the grand scheme of things
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On January 16 2019 20:24 IshinShishi wrote: honestly feels unfair to Nice on the grand scheme of things Not really unfair, it's just kinda sad. From what i gathered, he really didnt intend to collude with Cyan and Jienshi at the beginning but was tempted into it, possibly because he has seen that they are doing it, and he believed Astera is doing it as well, so i guess he figured he doesnt want to be the only sucker who's just grinding.
I really hope that the info from reddit is correct, and Blizz has analyzed the Puck vs Astera replay(s) before concluding the investigation.
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On January 16 2019 10:25 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2019 10:20 busyghost wrote:On January 16 2019 09:56 phodacbiet wrote:If that's the case, Nice needs to appeal and we need to do some more investigation. NICE apologised on facebook. According to his apology, he did not know the true identity of Route but noticed that he gave free wins to Chinese speakung accounts. However, in the last few minutes he intentionaly messaged Route to give him a free win when he found Astrea and Puck were doing a suspicious game. However, the official end time is 11.59 min exact but Astrea and Puck left at 11.59.58 so that game DID NOT COUNT. But HIS last game against Route was INTENTIONAL and the game ended at 11.58 and thus was effective. I mean if Astrea and Puck were colluding they should also get banned regardless of whether they made the deadline or not. However, if they were merely rushing each other because they were trying to finish the game before 11.59 then that's not against the rules I think.
Correct. That is making use of the rules, regardless if it sounds fair or not.
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I dont have all the information, but what did Nice do wrong? If he did not login to the Route account, what can he do if someone jsut instant leaves against him but plays all others?
I can log in to the KR server, win all matches and always instant leave against maru, would that get maru banned?
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On January 16 2019 12:28 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2019 11:59 geokilla wrote: Puck and Astrea should be banned as well in this case. Blizz checked Puck's replays and didn't find that puCK and Astrea were breaking any rules. I mean, the decision is up to Blizzard obviously. But regarding this I would like to remind everyone of the time where MajOr left EU ladder games during the ladder qualifier because he was sick. That's a lot less suspicious than Astrea and puCK and he still got banned from 1 season of Copa America.
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Sometimes when it comes to justice, one person may go free and another may be found guilty, despite suspicions being that both of them are guilty. That's because of something called "preponderance of evidence". It's not right to sentence people guilty based on suspicions.
Besides, wasn't Astrea streaming at the time? I thought I remembered seeing a clip of his stream on sc2 reddit. But maybe my mind is misremembering.
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Ladder qualifiers just aren't very good :D
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There are ladder tournaments, why dont they use these or something like that?
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On January 16 2019 22:40 graNite wrote: There are ladder tournaments, why dont they use these or something like that? huh? what would that do? the only reason to build WCS into ladder is to reward actual queued ladder performance. why in the world would blizzard, which already knows how to operate tournaments (in before the jokes that they don't know how) use a built-in auto tournament system designed for one-off casual play?
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On January 16 2019 22:12 graNite wrote: I dont have all the information, but what did Nice do wrong? If he did not login to the Route account, what can he do if someone jsut instant leaves against him but plays all others?
I can log in to the KR server, win all matches and always instant leave against maru, would that get maru banned? The comment section of this thread references Nice's situation, apparently he wasnt colluding at first, but noticed that Route is throwing games for chinese speaking players, so at the end he also messaged him and asked for an intentional throw, which he got. He admitted as much, and apologized for it, accepting the ruling in a FB post I obviously dont speak Chinese, but I trust the translations here/ on reddit are roughly accurate.
So to sum it up, he wasnt guilty of account sharing, but at first he unwillingly benefited from the actions on Route's acc, then he willingly asked for a free-win from the compromised account, and he got it.
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This was an unfortunate series of events, good that it was resolved quickly though.
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Cyan's long post on Weibo. (The origin post on weibo has been deleted, this translation is based on a copy from NGA forum. http://nga.178.com/read.php?tid=16159233 ) + Show Spoiler +先给大家解释下这次的赛制吧 11号开始 每天至少15盘天梯 最后截止时间MMR最高的前8晋级 。限定盘数就是为了防止有些人运气好 MMR打高以后赖着不打了。 当然 你只要MMR够高 打够15盘 还是可以求稳不打了 因为竞争是非常激烈的 一个不慎很可能就-40,很多盘白打 巴西人皇 噶姐 tlo他们都是最后一天很早时候打够15盘 就不打了。 puck最后一天 本来在前8 结果截止时间前为了补足盘数 直接掉到6300 10名开外 我在最后一天国内时间晚上4点左右 已经打到了6422 在TLO下面排名第六,按照竞争情况 基本上不出意外的话 大概率是晋级了 但是凡事都有个意外。最近我的身体和精神状况很糟糕,我其实前一天晚上8点就睡了 想着睡到第二天凌晨起来养足体力拼天梯 一直打到截止为止。然而因为一些战队的事情 11点多被电话吵醒了。我有失眠的问题,于是只能强撑着起来打天梯,幸好运气还不错,抓到puck冲上了6400。于是我就去休息了,然而很困却睡不着。 辗转反侧到7点多 就干脆起来观察天梯情况了 其实和预料的一样,我们盘数补足的情况下基本上不会再打,那么后面的人就没有机会把排名靠前的拉下来,只能自相残杀,所以导致分数争抢非常激烈,谁也上不了6400…… 但是我觉得还是不稳,就想打打看,但是自己一晚没睡了,精神非常差。。。我很怕去打大号掉出前8 最后功亏一篑真的受不了,因为最近比赛都是毫厘之差失利,心理压力实在太大了。 然而等待到截止的时间 这段时间太难熬了 所以借了朋友的号想着随便打打 不然一直盯着电脑看也受不了 虽然说在打美服的时候 可以选择低ping的服务器,但实际上真正匹配到的时候,通常都不会是之前选好的。开了加速器的情况下,连美国西部是最好的 大概是150ping左右。。但是搜到美国人 却都在美国中部服务器下(特意选择英文客户端可以看到所在服务器) 而搜到国手 却都是在新加坡服务器。我不知道为什么连到这个服务器非常卡,前两天我在直播的时候观众也有看到,在这个服务器下会经常掉线,很卡,所以搜到国手的时候我就不是很想打,随便修个地堡,有几盘甚至直接就掉线了。。。 反正他们也并不知道是我 但是这样当然是不好的,有刷分嫌疑,所以我不会刻意和他们对着搜然后送分,都是错开搜索的。但是有时候打完一盘之后出来立马搜 就没有注意到这些,又恰好搜到了一起。。 到截止时间前20分钟 基本上算是尘埃落定,噶姐 cham 巴西人皇 tlo,然后就是has 我 nice 解释 如果没有意外的话…… 在我安心看着倒计时的时候,有人突然发截图说,他怀疑puck和astrea开始刷分了 what?? 因为puck很早就跌出6300,没有丝毫机会了,而6400的astrea 在最后关头输给了mcaning,丢了很多分,也基本上没时间回6400了 除非另外有分数差不多的送分给他 于是puck和astrea连搜两盘了 第二盘puck修地堡失败不到两分钟直接送astrea到6400 距离我的第8位置只有不到20分了 还有不到10分钟 他们又搜到一起了 在最后时刻大家都拼命搜天梯的情况下,他们连续搜到一起 第三盘了 。。于是最后我也不理智的做出错误的事情……其实挺后悔的,真正去刷那一盘分的时候,其实和astrea和puck的最后一盘一样,都过了截止时间没有算数(以暴雪官推截图看) 却因此让事情走向了最坏的情况,我也不知道说什么好,咎由自取吧 然而无论我为自己的行为找多少理由,这毫无疑问是不对的,更像是懦夫所为,藏头露尾用这种阴招去稳固自己的排位。 错误的行为受到惩罚 我理应承担这样的结果 只是不甘心的是 puck和astrea最后的行为也应该受到审查。 我仔细研究了他们比赛历史里的数据曲线,非常不合理。而这次审核,我们上交了最近所有的天梯Rep。 这些rep我也发出来了,这里面包含了到上海以后所有在美服冲天梯的rep,供大家检查 人格担保什么的都就算了,毕竟都被官方禁赛有黑历史的存在了。美服第8 6422的分都是自己拼命打上去的,里面没有1分是刷上去的 。我只是想证明,我们顶着延迟打进前8是靠实力,不是靠刷分之类的手段 这件事情也波及了nice jieshi 和route……因为我个人的行为却牵连到其他国手,真的很对不起 最后是我这次美服所有rep的云盘链接: https://pan.baidu.com/s/1G_UjVhLMmw0KIUt6yEHYsg可一一对应我美服账号的比赛历史 对不起……
Translation : First I'd like to explain the format of this tornament: From Jan 11th, at least 15 ladder games per day, and players with top-8 MMR will advance. The 15-game limit is set to prevent the case when some players reach high MMR by luck after a few games and stop playing. Of course as long as your MMR is high enough and you've finished 15 games you can choose to be prudent and stop playing, because you may waste all your previous efforts by losing 40 points in a single game in this cut-throat competition. Kelazhur, Scarlett and TLO all finished 15 games very early in the last day and stopped playing. Puck was in top 8, but he unfortunately dropped to 6300 (out of top 10) when trying to finish the required 15 games.
I was at 6422 MMR on the last day 4 o'clock in the evening (4AM? (= 3PM EST) - translator's note) , ranked 6th after TLO. I thought I already could advance with very high probability if nothing unexpected happened. However there was something unexpedted. My psysical and mental conditions has been poor these days. Actually the day before that I slept at 8PM (7AM EST), planning to get up early in the morning refreshed and continue fighting in the ladder until it closed. However I was woken up by some business in my team at 11PM (10AM EST). I had insomnia and couldn't sleep anymore so I had to get up and keep playing the ladder, I was lucky to defeat puck and reached 6400. Then I got to bed to get some rest, but I was exhausted and couldn't sleep at all.
I Tossed and turned in bed until 7AM (6PM EST), and decided to get up and look at the ladder. It was as expected - since high-ranked players like us were no longer playing, the other players could only compete against each other without affecting our standing. The competition was cruel and no one was able to reach 6400. I thought I wasn't safe enough so I wanted to play, but I haven't slept in a day and was exhausted. I was afraid my account would drop out of top 8. I lost a few tournaments in the final moments recently and was under tremendous pressure. Waiting for the deadline was a torment for me. So I borrowed a friend's account just to play.
Although we can choose a server with a low ping when playing NA server, the game we got matched isn't usually the one we chose. Even with a proxy, the lowest ping I could get is 150 ping on Western American Server. However the opponent I got matched are usually on Central American Server. However when I got matched with Chinese players, it was always on the Singapore server. I don't know why games on that server was extremely laggy for me. As can be seen on my stream a few days ago, I often lag and even get dropped out of the game. So I didn't want to play against Chinese players at all. I usually just cannon rushed. In a few games I just got dropped. My opponents didn't know it was me. But it was still not a right thing to do, because it looked like trade wins. So I tried to avoid them by not searching immediately after games with them. But still I sometimes forgot and got matched with them again.
20 minutes before the deadline, the result already seemed certain: Scalett, Kelazhur, TLO, Has, Me, Nice, Jieshi. If nothing unexpected happened... However when I was looking at the count down peacefully, someone posted a screenshot and suspected Puck and Astrea were trading wins.
What??
Puck had long been lower than 6300, and he had absolutely no chance. While Astrea at 6400 MMR lost to MCanning, and had no time to get back to 6400 after this MMR lost, unless someone give him some MMR. So Puck and Astrea got matched for two games in a row. In the second game Puck's less-than-two-minute cannon rush helped Astrea reaching 6400, he was only less than 20 points MMR from me.
And then they got matched the third time when it was less than 10 minutes before the deadline. At the time when everyone was searching games like crazy, they got matched, the third time.
Then I irrationally did the wrong thing. I regret it very much. The one game that I was really intending to trade win, it was actually later than the official deadline, just like Astrea and Puck's third game, it had no impact on the final standing according to the screenshot in Blizzard's official tweet. However this game made things go to the worst possible case. I don't know what to say, it's my own fault.
No matter how many reason I find for my wrong behavior, it's wrong. It's a coward trying to secure his position with this treacherous trick. I should be punished for my wrong behavior, I should bare the results.
But I still feel a bit unfair, because I think Puck and Astrea should also be investigated. I carefully studied the curves in their match histories, and found them very abnormal.
We submitted all our ladder replays in our investigation. They are all here, in case you want to check. I know I can't really convince you anymore because I'm already stigmatized after this ban, but I just want to say my 6422 MMR, ranked 8 in NA server, are all by my own capability. There's not a single point in this MMR that's gained by trading wins. I want to say we reached top 8 despite of lag by our own skill, not the tricks like trading wins.
This incident also affected Nice, Jieshi and Route. I'm really so sorry for affecting other Chinese players all due to my own behavior.
Here is all of my NA server replays, you can corresponds them with every game in my match history. https://pan.baidu.com/s/1G_UjVhLMmw0KIUt6yEHYsg
Sorry...
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The ban is only until May and I find that a little bit too much on the nice side by Blizzard. Imagine one of those players wins some WCS event and ends up going to Blizzcon, it would be quite a shame in my opinion. If you actively (and repeatedly) matchfix, you should be banned for the whole season. It would also set a good precedent/example.
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I want to be clear as these accusations should never be taken lightly. 1. There are no rules that state I have to stop playing due to no longer being able to qualify. 2. There are no rules that state that I cannot perform specific strategies as long as I play to win.
At the final hour of the qualifier there were not many people beyond players with 6300 mmr playing, since many people decided to sit back and watch the final hour unfold. Yes, it is true that it would be near impossible for me to qualify but that doesn’t mean I have to stop laddering. I queued into Astrea and played 3 games in a row, I also queued into nice over 6 games in a row that same day. However, I could’ve also queued into any other player who decided to ladder at the final hour but instead everyone wanted to sit on their points, their loss. I had Nice and other CN/TW players added to my friends list they could see that I was queuing, it is their responsibility to try and gain more points if they do not feel safe.
Immediately after the qualifier Cyan made a post which he has since deleted on Weibo stating that “Oh, so thrilling... Puck is intentionally throwing game in the last 10 minutes, for he has no chance to qualify, and cannon-rushed Astrea for 3 games and make Jieshi become 9th in the last. But thank goodness, they past the deadline and Blz discovered this. Anyway, battling on NA server with 200 ping does not end up in vain, Jieshi and I qualified for WCS America!!!”
If you notice this post states that I cannon rushed 3 games which is a lie, I cannon rushed once, I also cannon rushed 2 games in the Ladder Heroes tournament that same day. However, this post immediately caught interest from the CN/TW audience and Blizzard demanded our replays. So, replays were given, analyzed, and were determined that no foul play was involved.
Now I am getting harassed by countless people, mostly from CN/TW, for playing games beyond the point of which I could still qualify...
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8715 Posts
Soft ban for soft players
Props to puCK for continuing to play even when he was mathematically out of it, which is good for the finish of a ladder qualifier, giving people still in the running a high MMR opponent to match against.
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"Collusion is not a crime"
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On January 17 2019 06:07 puCK wrote: 2. There are no rules that state that I cannot perform specific strategies as long as I play to win.
in CraftCup events that would often go 10 rounds deep , Naniwa would 4-gate his way into the quarter-finals. he liked lots of relaxation time between rounds.
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Sorry to hear that Puck was pestered by people from CN/TW. I personally don't think there's any point in continue discussing Puck's matches at all. It's just impossible to determine for sure whether there is malpractice or not in this kind of ladder qualifier, even with replay it's still only speculation. Hope Blizzard never do any other ladder qualifiers again.
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From an objective standpoint, Puck's post seems entirely reasonable. Blizzard did not find anything incriminating in the games, and I think it's good to respect that decision.
In this case it seems pretty shitty to harass someone when it is impossible to prove that they actually committed any wrong.
I feel quite sad for puck considering he had these guys on his f list, probably played with them sometimes, and they decided to skew the truth in their post and throw him under the bus.
That apology/explanation(cn) post is pretty poor in that regard, and moreover, has a pretty questionable explanation about lag...
Hope they take those few months to actually think about the final pm/decisions they made.
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All the best Puck. Don't let this bring you down too hard.
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And this is why Ladder qualification was, is and will forever be a completely stupid fucking idea
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On January 17 2019 05:18 lisuiasdf wrote: Cyan's long post on Weibo.
Im fairly disappointed by this non-apology apology, giving bullshit excuses, throwing shade and not taking responsibility for account sharing, for which he was found guilty as well. he even has the audacity to throw out the ” The one game that I was really intending to trade win, it was actually later than the official deadline”. Like that would make it better (if it was true, and it isnt)
Between the bogus excuses and blaming Aster+Puck he does squeeze in that he was wrong and what he did was cowardly, but then he has to go on and still complain it was unfair they got punished.
He says ”But I still feel a bit unfair, because I think Puck and Astrea should also be investigated. I carefully studied the curves in their match histories, and found them very abnormal. ”
OK, abnormal how? Because apparently Blizzard and the other community members who investigated it didn't find them abnormal, so what are the signs that he discovered, hmm?
Also, special thanks for Puck for commenting here!
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Good to see this got resolved.
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On January 17 2019 06:07 puCK wrote: I want to be clear as these accusations should never be taken lightly. 1. There are no rules that state I have to stop playing due to no longer being able to qualify. 2. There are no rules that state that I cannot perform specific strategies as long as I play to win.
At the final hour of the qualifier there were not many people beyond players with 6300 mmr playing, since many people decided to sit back and watch the final hour unfold. Yes, it is true that it would be near impossible for me to qualify but that doesn’t mean I have to stop laddering. I queued into Astrea and played 3 games in a row, I also queued into nice over 6 games in a row that same day. However, I could’ve also queued into any other player who decided to ladder at the final hour but instead everyone wanted to sit on their points, their loss. I had Nice and other CN/TW players added to my friends list they could see that I was queuing, it is their responsibility to try and gain more points if they do not feel safe.
Immediately after the qualifier Cyan made a post which he has since deleted on Weibo stating that “Oh, so thrilling... Puck is intentionally throwing game in the last 10 minutes, for he has no chance to qualify, and cannon-rushed Astrea for 3 games and make Jieshi become 9th in the last. But thank goodness, they past the deadline and Blz discovered this. Anyway, battling on NA server with 200 ping does not end up in vain, Jieshi and I qualified for WCS America!!!”
If you notice this post states that I cannon rushed 3 games which is a lie, I cannon rushed once, I also cannon rushed 2 games in the Ladder Heroes tournament that same day. However, this post immediately caught interest from the CN/TW audience and Blizzard demanded our replays. So, replays were given, analyzed, and were determined that no foul play was involved.
Now I am getting harassed by countless people, mostly from CN/TW, for playing games beyond the point of which I could still qualify...
Just please be careful.
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On January 17 2019 16:10 showstealer1829 wrote: And this is why Ladder qualification was, is and will forever be a completely stupid fucking idea baiting out the cheaters seems like a bonus, not a drawback. how do you conclude in any way that ladder qualifiers are bad from all of this?
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On January 18 2019 05:40 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2019 16:10 showstealer1829 wrote: And this is why Ladder qualification was, is and will forever be a completely stupid fucking idea baiting out the cheaters seems like a bonus, not a drawback. how do you conclude in any way that ladder qualifiers are bad from all of this?
1-) Ladder isn't %100 fair for everyone 2-) You only caught few people and assume no one else did anything? How naive. 3-) Cheating definitions are pretty gray since everyone has freedom to play however they want. Everyone have right to throw their games. Unlike tournaments, for most players on the ladder there is nothing on the line. 4-) Why not simply organize an open qualifier / league instead of wasting time with this kind of bshits?
Is that enough? There is simply not a single reason favoring ladder qualifications.
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On January 18 2019 05:35 Dave4 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2019 06:07 puCK wrote: I want to be clear as these accusations should never be taken lightly. 1. There are no rules that state I have to stop playing due to no longer being able to qualify. 2. There are no rules that state that I cannot perform specific strategies as long as I play to win.
At the final hour of the qualifier there were not many people beyond players with 6300 mmr playing, since many people decided to sit back and watch the final hour unfold. Yes, it is true that it would be near impossible for me to qualify but that doesn’t mean I have to stop laddering. I queued into Astrea and played 3 games in a row, I also queued into nice over 6 games in a row that same day. However, I could’ve also queued into any other player who decided to ladder at the final hour but instead everyone wanted to sit on their points, their loss. I had Nice and other CN/TW players added to my friends list they could see that I was queuing, it is their responsibility to try and gain more points if they do not feel safe.
Immediately after the qualifier Cyan made a post which he has since deleted on Weibo stating that “Oh, so thrilling... Puck is intentionally throwing game in the last 10 minutes, for he has no chance to qualify, and cannon-rushed Astrea for 3 games and make Jieshi become 9th in the last. But thank goodness, they past the deadline and Blz discovered this. Anyway, battling on NA server with 200 ping does not end up in vain, Jieshi and I qualified for WCS America!!!”
If you notice this post states that I cannon rushed 3 games which is a lie, I cannon rushed once, I also cannon rushed 2 games in the Ladder Heroes tournament that same day. However, this post immediately caught interest from the CN/TW audience and Blizzard demanded our replays. So, replays were given, analyzed, and were determined that no foul play was involved.
Now I am getting harassed by countless people, mostly from CN/TW, for playing games beyond the point of which I could still qualify...
Just please be careful.
For what ? He can play however he wants. Can't people just go and play ladder with a clear mind to have fun without having to explain every single game he played to the audience / authorities? This system is just sad.
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On January 18 2019 08:02 Aegwynn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2019 05:40 NonY wrote:On January 17 2019 16:10 showstealer1829 wrote: And this is why Ladder qualification was, is and will forever be a completely stupid fucking idea baiting out the cheaters seems like a bonus, not a drawback. how do you conclude in any way that ladder qualifiers are bad from all of this? 1-) Ladder isn't %100 fair for everyone 2-) You only caught few people and assume no one else did anything? How naive. 3-) Cheating definitions are pretty gray since everyone has freedom to play however they want. Everyone have right to throw their games. Unlike tournaments, for most players on the ladder there is nothing on the line. 4-) Why not simply organize an open qualifier / league instead of wasting time with this kind of bshits? Is that enough? There is simply not a single reason favoring ladder qualifications. 1) tournaments aren't 100% fair either. bracket luck exists and bo3/bo5 don't always show the stronger player. nothing is "100% fair." even in mirrored games like chess someone has to play first. 2) ??? nony didn't say "no one else did anything;" you made that up. 3) yes, definitions are gray - that's why blizzard has a team of people to gather evidence and make a ruling. people manipulated the system, so they were disqualified. this is basic procedural stuff and no problem has occurred other than "cheaters are going to cheat." as for your point about people "having something on the line," people have thrown games and clearly given up in tournaments too. heard of Naniwa rage-throwing games? heard of matchfixing? 4) because variety is fun. more importantly: because SC2 needs an audience to thrive, and an audience who plays the game on ladder is a more engaged audience. seeing pros play on ladder forms a connection between playing the game and watching the game. since SC2 has existed the excitement of watching has been about emulating professional players, this entire game is a tryhard fantasy.
you are entitled to dislike this format, but your arguments are not strong.
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8715 Posts
edit: nm i dont care. it's sad that these ladder qualifiers are not as good for the community as they could be. one last time: it's not because of something inherently wrong with ladder qualifiers. it's the way the players and fans are handling them. i'm not gonna spend time arguing about it anymore though
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Canada8759 Posts
Honestly personnaly I like the idea of a ladder qualifier pretty much only because it gives a free pass to the top player and the bracket part become more fair, like for EU not having Serral-uthermal-Showtime in the bracket reduce the possible imbalance and make it more fair. The NA one was kind of fucked because some of the top player didin't try (Special-Neeb) but get those in and you have pretty much the best 8 players of NA.
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There is no excuse that cyan and jieshi did the wrong things.Both of them are punished by chinese sc fans comment on weibo.Especially cyan after he post that puck and Astrea are cheating as well for excuse. BUT just hope ladder qualification can be moved next time.
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Chinese players and their fans are quite isolated in this issue. I have been keeping an eye on a predominant SC2 forum called Neotv these days, finding that a large majority of people there just admit cyan’s fraud but iterate so-called ‘protectionism and racism’ of Blizzard for their judgement not punishing Puck and Astrea despite the ‘ fact’
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On January 18 2019 08:15 Aegwynn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2019 05:35 Dave4 wrote:On January 17 2019 06:07 puCK wrote: I want to be clear as these accusations should never be taken lightly. 1. There are no rules that state I have to stop playing due to no longer being able to qualify. 2. There are no rules that state that I cannot perform specific strategies as long as I play to win.
At the final hour of the qualifier there were not many people beyond players with 6300 mmr playing, since many people decided to sit back and watch the final hour unfold. Yes, it is true that it would be near impossible for me to qualify but that doesn’t mean I have to stop laddering. I queued into Astrea and played 3 games in a row, I also queued into nice over 6 games in a row that same day. However, I could’ve also queued into any other player who decided to ladder at the final hour but instead everyone wanted to sit on their points, their loss. I had Nice and other CN/TW players added to my friends list they could see that I was queuing, it is their responsibility to try and gain more points if they do not feel safe.
Immediately after the qualifier Cyan made a post which he has since deleted on Weibo stating that “Oh, so thrilling... Puck is intentionally throwing game in the last 10 minutes, for he has no chance to qualify, and cannon-rushed Astrea for 3 games and make Jieshi become 9th in the last. But thank goodness, they past the deadline and Blz discovered this. Anyway, battling on NA server with 200 ping does not end up in vain, Jieshi and I qualified for WCS America!!!”
If you notice this post states that I cannon rushed 3 games which is a lie, I cannon rushed once, I also cannon rushed 2 games in the Ladder Heroes tournament that same day. However, this post immediately caught interest from the CN/TW audience and Blizzard demanded our replays. So, replays were given, analyzed, and were determined that no foul play was involved.
Now I am getting harassed by countless people, mostly from CN/TW, for playing games beyond the point of which I could still qualify...
Just please be careful. For what ? He can play however he wants. Can't people just go and play ladder with a clear mind to have fun without having to explain every single game he played to the audience / authorities? This system is just sad.
He still can play whatever he wants and however he wants... nobody banned him from playing right? But if you want to compete in a tournament.. you have to follow the rules. Its simple as that.
Like in football.. you can play whoever, wherever, however you want... sure! And noone will call any fauls or penalties. But only when you play with your friends. They can however bench you for whatever reason.
On the other hand, playing in tournament, you cant do that. You have to follow the set or rules cause if you dont then you are simply out
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baiting out the cheaters seems like a bonus, not a drawback. how do you conclude in any way that ladder qualifiers are bad from all of this?
Encouraging or setting traps for players to cheat is never a good thing. You don't want to promote bad behavior, particularly when it's potential rolemodels for younger generations.
This is not just catching cheaters, it's enticing it. It looks bad for viewers, players, the tournament, the Starcraft scene, and sponsors.
No one has won from this occurance, and no one would like this to happen again.
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On January 18 2019 20:11 Vanillatoss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2019 08:15 Aegwynn wrote:On January 18 2019 05:35 Dave4 wrote:On January 17 2019 06:07 puCK wrote: I want to be clear as these accusations should never be taken lightly. 1. There are no rules that state I have to stop playing due to no longer being able to qualify. 2. There are no rules that state that I cannot perform specific strategies as long as I play to win.
At the final hour of the qualifier there were not many people beyond players with 6300 mmr playing, since many people decided to sit back and watch the final hour unfold. Yes, it is true that it would be near impossible for me to qualify but that doesn’t mean I have to stop laddering. I queued into Astrea and played 3 games in a row, I also queued into nice over 6 games in a row that same day. However, I could’ve also queued into any other player who decided to ladder at the final hour but instead everyone wanted to sit on their points, their loss. I had Nice and other CN/TW players added to my friends list they could see that I was queuing, it is their responsibility to try and gain more points if they do not feel safe.
Immediately after the qualifier Cyan made a post which he has since deleted on Weibo stating that “Oh, so thrilling... Puck is intentionally throwing game in the last 10 minutes, for he has no chance to qualify, and cannon-rushed Astrea for 3 games and make Jieshi become 9th in the last. But thank goodness, they past the deadline and Blz discovered this. Anyway, battling on NA server with 200 ping does not end up in vain, Jieshi and I qualified for WCS America!!!”
If you notice this post states that I cannon rushed 3 games which is a lie, I cannon rushed once, I also cannon rushed 2 games in the Ladder Heroes tournament that same day. However, this post immediately caught interest from the CN/TW audience and Blizzard demanded our replays. So, replays were given, analyzed, and were determined that no foul play was involved.
Now I am getting harassed by countless people, mostly from CN/TW, for playing games beyond the point of which I could still qualify...
Just please be careful. For what ? He can play however he wants. Can't people just go and play ladder with a clear mind to have fun without having to explain every single game he played to the audience / authorities? This system is just sad. He still can play whatever he wants and however he wants... nobody banned him from playing right? But if you want to compete in a tournament.. you have to follow the rules. Its simple as that. Like in football.. you can play whoever, wherever, however you want... sure! And noone will call any fauls or penalties. But only when you play with your friends. They can however bench you for whatever reason. On the other hand, playing in tournament, you cant do that. You have to follow the set or rules cause if you dont then you are simply out
The things that you wrote are completely irrelevant and not answering any of my points. I didn't say he got banned i said he had to waste his time posting on forums explaining how he played his personal ladder games. Does it seem convenient and logical to you? And ladder isn't a tournament, not even close. Unlike a real tournament, two people can agree on anything between them simply because there is no spectator/referee and one of the players don't even care about the result.
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Aegwynn, when people are playing ladder DURING A TIME THE LADDER RACE IS ON, have enough MMR to be in contention and the necessary skill... they fall under the rules that were quoted either in this thread or in the other one. So no, they can't play ladder any way they like on that specific day because that influences the outcome. Isn't that obvious?
And as it has been pointed out a lot already cheating in this format and in this way is *really* dumb because it is rather obvious from replays and IPs.
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On January 19 2019 02:32 lechatnoir wrote: Aegwynn, when people are playing ladder DURING A TIME THE LADDER RACE IS ON, have enough MMR to be in contention and the necessary skill... they fall under the rules that were quoted either in this thread or in the other one. So no, they can't play ladder any way they like on that specific day because that influences the outcome. Isn't that obvious?
And as it has been pointed out a lot already cheating in this format and in this way is *really* dumb because it is rather obvious from replays and IPs. and this is the problem with the ladder qualifier. Puck did nothing wrong and got accused because he queued games at a time the ladder qualifier went on. Is he not allowed to play the game how he wants just because some of his opponents are in contention for qualifiying?
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On January 19 2019 02:32 lechatnoir wrote: Aegwynn, when people are playing ladder DURING A TIME THE LADDER RACE IS ON, have enough MMR to be in contention and the necessary skill... they fall under the rules that were quoted either in this thread or in the other one. So no, they can't play ladder any way they like on that specific day because that influences the outcome. Isn't that obvious?
And as it has been pointed out a lot already cheating in this format and in this way is *really* dumb because it is rather obvious from replays and IPs.
Charoisaur already responded to your first question. So no, it isn't obvious.
Secondly, i think completely the opposite, people have to be really stupid to get caught wintrading. I think its first time these chinese guys doing it and didn't think people would look their match history. It is extremely easy to wintrade with totally normal looking games. I can just tell you in advance that i will 2 base roach all-in you and thats it.
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