EPTCode S Finals Preview: TY vs Maru - Page 3
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 15 2018 03:08 outscar wrote: Will it be fair if I say that MVP is the GOAT of WoL, Life is of HotS, and Inno is of LotV. We need another expansion ASAP. Or there are going to be patch GOATs inc. Extremely inaccurate to call INnoVation the greatest player of Legacy of the Void with 4 premier and many periods when he didn't even make ro32 or ro16, let alone top8. He just didnt't leave much of an impact. I think the best player of LotV is either Stats or Maru, both of them sporting multiple starleague titles, a weekender title on top of that and other big accomplishments on top of that (mutlipel top 4 finishes for Stats and GSL runner-up/winner and proleague record for Maru). Stats in the end wins in my heart is as an incredibly consistent player who has shown championship-caliber player for 2 years now. Even if he doesn't always win, he looks a real contender, with his lost series being very close (2:3 vs Solar in SSL ro4, 2:3 Zest, 3:4 vs Serral now) and he truly looks like a complete player with full knowledge of all 3 Protoss matchups. In fact, out of Stats' 18 top 4 finishes in premier tournaments, 16 are in LotV. This man is as close to the perfect LotV Protoss player as it can get. His defence, offence, macro and micro always look on point. It's like he was created to play this particular expansion. While Maru and Rogue might peak higher than Stats, the latter's sheer consistency in such a competitive environement is a true testimony to his overall skills at the game. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13974 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15967 Posts
On September 15 2018 03:16 Ej_ wrote: Extremely inaccurate to call INnoVation the greatest player of Legacy of the Void with only 3 premier titles and many periods when he didn't even make ro32 or ro16, let alone top8 I think the best player of LotV is either Stats or Maru, both of them sporting multiple starleague titles, a weekender title on top of that and other big accomplishments on top of that (mutlipel top 4 finishes for Stats and GSL runner-up/winner and proleague record for Maru). Stats in the end wins in my heart is as an incredibly consistent player who has shown championship-caliber player for 2 years now. Even if he doesn't always win, he looks a real contender, with his lost series being very close (2:3 vs Solar in SSL ro4, 2:3 Zest, 3:4 vs Serral now) and he truly looks like a complete player with full knowledge of all 3 Protoss matchups. In fact, out of Stats' 18 top 4 finishes in premier tournaments, 16 are in LotV. This man is as close to the perfect LotV Protoss player as it can get. His defence, offence, macro and micro always look on point. It's like he was created to play this particular expansion. While Maru and Rogue might peak higher than Stats, the latter's sheer consistency in such a competitive environement is a true testimony to his overall skills at the game. Inno has 4 premier titles but I agree with Stats being the best LotV player. Inno, Rogue and Maru are close behind him imo. | ||
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
On September 15 2018 03:00 Charoisaur wrote: Agreed but for some reason lots of people don't want to accept Inno as the Goat. I don't know if they find him too boring or his playstyle isn't flashy enough or what but for some reason those people try everything to disregard his achievements and put other less accomplished players above him. It's no surprise that they use this opportunity of Maru having a hot streak to advertise him as the new Goat and hope the recency bias is strong enough that people fall for it. Inno is not likable and fully embodies faceless korean, no personality at all. strictly mechanical play although i guess now he mixes in all ins. he is definitely in the disucssion for GOAT though, at least in HOTS there were a few things though that stand out against him being GOAT. for sure at least the second GOAT (although I think soo has that title on lock down). he was abusing hellbats being broken initially to win TvT in HOTS, which was correctly pointed out by ppl who got ban warned back then, only for those people to be completely vindicated when inno's TvT went into the shitter immediately after the hellbat nerf. since then he has consistently been sniped by TvT specialists like alive and gumiho and the like. also his loss to soulkey in the GSL finals also exposed him. he was up 3-0 and got reverse swept and in the final game tilted and sent a shit ton of medivacs to do a drop when there were mutas flying all around. the mutas ate the medivacs for lunch i think there is a strong case for life as GOAT in HOTS | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15967 Posts
On September 15 2018 03:31 fishjie wrote: Inno is not likable and fully embodies faceless korean, no personality at all. strictly mechanical play although i guess now he mixes in all ins. he is definitely in the disucssion for GOAT though, at least in HOTS there were a few things though that stand out against him being GOAT. for sure at least the second GOAT (although I think soo has that title on lock down). he was abusing hellbats being broken initially to win TvT in HOTS, which was correctly pointed out by ppl who got ban warned back then, only for those people to be completely vindicated when inno's TvT went into the shitter immediately after the hellbat nerf. since then he has consistently been sniped by TvT specialists like alive and gumiho and the like. also his loss to soulkey in the GSL finals also exposed him. he was up 3-0 and got reverse swept and in the final game tilted and sent a shit ton of medivacs to do a drop when there were mutas flying all around. the mutas ate the medivacs for lunch i think there is a strong case for life as GOAT in HOTS See this is what I mean. People try everything to diminish his achievements because they don't like him. Can I remind you that Mvp had the majority of his success during GomTvT and Life had his initial string of success on the back of BL/Infestor? But that never gets brought up because people don't have a problem with them being the GOAT - only Inno gets treated differently. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On September 15 2018 03:36 Charoisaur wrote: See this is what I mean. People try everything to diminish his achievements because they don't like him. Can I remind you that Mvp had the majority of his success during GomTvT and Life had his initial string of success on the back of BL/Infestor? But that never gets brought up because people don't have a problem with them being the GOAT - only Inno gets treated differently. I have no issue with downplaying Life or Mvp (in fact I'll do it myself). But they both get credit for winning while working against obvious balance issues. Even if they enjoyed success while the meta was in their favour. INno most certainly does not. The biggest argument against him is that he doesn't find success outside of good patches. | ||
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JJH777
United States4408 Posts
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
On September 15 2018 04:21 Fango wrote: I have no issue with downplaying Life or Mvp (in fact I'll do it myself). But they both get credit for winning while working against obvious balance issues. Even if they enjoyed success while the meta was in their favour. INno most certainly does not. The biggest argument against him is that he doesn't find success outside of good patches. I guess it depends what makes a GOAT, you know? Some people try to go by tournament wins, but there's a lot more that can be considered. Innovation might be the best at exploiting favorable metas, and when he can do that, he really does shine. That's a skill too. But I can understand people finding MVP more impressive for winning with the odds stacked against him. The thing is that this is all subjective, of course. Bringing it back to Maru, if he wins this GSL plus BlizzCon, the dominance factor is really impressive. He has won against all his stiffest competition and often looked so completely dominant that it was embarrassing for the players he was up against. This is part of his greatness factor if we're including the subjective stuff. It's kinda like nestea: by raw tournament wins, he might not be meaningfully in the discussion, but he was previously the only player to ever win back to back GSLs, and HE WON A WHOLE GSL WITHOUT DROPPING A SINGLE MAP. So I think it's understandable that he's counted as one of the greats (even if, of course, almost nobody would count him as GOAT). Maru dominating GSL for the whole year, and doing it so hard against almost all of his potential rivals, would really be a mind boggling feat that adds more to the discussion than just the number of wins. He's got more work to do before we can all basically agree he's the greatest ever, but he's getting close to at least belonging in the conversation. | ||
Waxangel
United States33397 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On September 15 2018 05:15 Waxangel wrote: This talk reminds me a bit of Flash at four titles, where ppl got caught up about him needing five, even though his sheer dominance was unprecedented. Which is funny considering that Flash had to beat Jaedong to get there while maru has no real rival (which might hurt him tbh) | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On September 15 2018 05:27 The_Red_Viper wrote: Which is funny considering that Flash had to beat Jaedong to get there while maru has no real rival (which might hurt him tbh) We were close to having a serious Maru-Dark rivalry and a Maru-Rogue rivalry but of them fell short :/ | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 15 2018 03:28 Charoisaur wrote: Inno has 4 premier titles but I agree with Stats being the best LotV player. Inno, Rogue and Maru are close behind him imo. My honest mistake, I have edited the post now. | ||
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Kurao
215 Posts
Rooting for my guy TY here but I think Maru takes it, can't really bet against him. Maru 4-3 TY | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
On September 15 2018 05:33 Fango wrote: We were close to having a serious Maru-Dark rivalry and a Maru-Rogue rivalry but of them fell short :/ Life was supposed to be his rival  | ||
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Riner1212
United States337 Posts
Well Life dug his own grave due to the greed he had for money. which gg'ed his career, but anyways, i was not a life fan from the beginning. he did deserve what he got himself into, which is good for the community, cant have toxic players competing in this game. | ||
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RandomOnlyTheHumanLf
58 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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RandomOnlyTheHumanLf
58 Posts
In GSL you have to compete with 20 S-class players In WCS Circuit you only have to compete with few S-class players. And yes there are more than 5 Koreans who can do exactly same as Serral domination in WCS Circuit this year. Results of top foreigners in GSL 2018 SpeCial: eliminated in qualifier and in ro32 Elazer: eliminated in ro32 Scarlett: ro8 at first season, but eliminated in ro32 next season, and then eliminated in qualifier in s3 Lambo: eliminated in qualifier Reynor: eliminated in ro16 Neeb: semi-final rest: all got eliminated either in qualifier or ro32 funny thing is that even Neeb got eliminated in qualifier last year after he has won Kespa Cup in Korea. And dominating WCS Circuit by himself. So, I honestly wouldn't be surprised that much even if Serral get eliminated in GSL qualifier at his first try.(if he gets hard opponents, it really can happen) | ||
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
On September 15 2018 03:36 Charoisaur wrote: See this is what I mean. People try everything to diminish his achievements because they don't like him. Can I remind you that Mvp had the majority of his success during GomTvT and Life had his initial string of success on the back of BL/Infestor? But that never gets brought up because people don't have a problem with them being the GOAT - only Inno gets treated differently. well mvp dominated in gom tvt with mechanics, and then when his wrists were broken he continued to win through sheer genius. heck he even took some games off inno iirc. life won via gglord winfestor, but after the nerf, unlike the other patch zergs who fell off (cough cough foreigner zergs who were able to "beat" korean terrans before). zergs who abused that disgusting comp like roro/sniper faded into irrelevance afterward. life kept dominating afterward. but yeah i get what you're saying. inno just isn't a very likable personality. however i don't see him having that same kind of brilliance and resilience mvp had after his wrists got ruined. in fact, his tvt going to shit after hellbat nerf is like the anti mvp story. no resilience there. that's why mvp is beloved and inno is not. maru on the other hand, very adorable character and great story. started in first gsl as a kid and was awful, now is a god. | ||
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