I introduce Community Patch Mod (New Balance Mod) - Page 2

whsper

Canada48 Posts

August 14 2017 08:51 GMT

#21

I question if you even play protoss, some of these changes make the race very very very difficult to play. When doing "balance" patches, you need to take into consideration the interactions of each unit in relation to others.

Why am I bringing this up? Here's an example, a very superficial simple one to boot:

To build a reaper, you need a supply depot + rax.

Supply Depot
Build Time: 30 → 25

Reaper
Life: 60 → 85
Build Time: 45s → 42s
Movement Speed: 3.75 → 2.95
Attack range 5 → 4, attack period 1.10 → 1.33

Your proposed changes: supply depot (25s) + barracks (46s) + reaper (42s) = 113s
LotV live = 30 + 46 + 45 = 121
Net -8s

To build a mothership core, you need: pylon + gateway + cybernetics core.

Pylon
Build Time: 25s → 30s

Cybernetics Core
Build Time: 50s → 45s

Mothership Core
Build Time: 30s → 50s
Shield and Life: 60/130 → 90/90
Armor: 1 → 0
Movement Speed: 1.88 → 1.41
Removed general weapon and Time Warp ability, Mass Recall energy costs 50 → 100
Photon Overcharge: have been changed to a weapon activating and using directly by the Mothership Core. Drains 3 energy per 1 second and can not move when activated. Damage dealt 35, range 6, attack period 1.65

your suggestion = pylon (30s) + gateway (46s) + cybernetics core(45s) + mothership core(50s) = 171s
LotV live = 25 + 46 + 50 + 30 = 151
Net +20s

Current LotV builds have the mothership core coming out exactly as the reaper reaches the protoss main on most maps.
Your proposed changes will have the reaper have an additional 28s of free reign.
Ok, but you can build an adept or stalker to deal right? You've shifted the 38s vs 42s of stalker vs adept, so just for argument sake, say you didn't touch the build times. The nerf on the pylon+cyber core time is still an additional 20s. The reaper + supply depot is still 8 seconds faster. Still 28 seconds difference.

I'm doubtful the move speed nerf on reapers will cause it to take 28 more seconds to reach the protoss mineral line. The reduction on range does not change the interaction between worker vs reaper. To further complicate the problem, if the terran proxies the reapers... then the protoss just dies 100% of the time?

This is just 1 example. You've made sweeping changes that drastically affect race+unit interactions that need to be given more thought.

Foxxan

Sweden3427 Posts

August 14 2017 10:29 GMT

#22

^Reaper comes out 8sec earlier with slower movement speed
First stalker comes out 10sec earlier with a better chronoboost.

Seems you are the one didnt give to much thought into this.

When doing "balance" patches, you need to take into consideration the interactions of each unit in relation to others

Has nothing to do with your example or the rest of your entire post. I think you misunderstand what unit interraction means.

YatagarasSC2

5 Posts

August 14 2017 10:45 GMT

#23

On August 14 2017 17:51 whsper wrote:
I question if you even play protoss, some of these changes make the race very very very difficult to play. When doing "balance" patches, you need to take into consideration the interactions of each unit in relation to others.

Why am I bringing this up? Here's an example, a very superficial simple one to boot:

To build a reaper, you need a supply depot + rax.

Protoss can prevent 1 reaper with a sentry or stalker. 13 or 14 Pylon - 16 Gate - 17 Gas - 20 or 21 Core - 22 Expanding
and first sentry can scout terran bases with using hallucination phoenix. that will provide information about terrans build order divergence, Fac-mech / Barracks

Xiphias

Norway2223 Posts

August 14 2017 15:06 GMT

#24

About matchmaking (I work on Starbow). It is against the EULA of SC2 to create a matchmaking for SC2. We talked to blizzard and were allowed because our game was not SC2, but on the arcade and did not compete with the SC2 matching that i already in the game. Yours might fall under the same category, but I'm not sure. I would try to take it up with blizzard first.

About the system itself. It never worked completely as intended and it was quite broken at the end. None of those who worked on it are available to help now, unfortunately. But, I know Blizzard have improved their API which might help a lot if you're willing to make something "from scratch".

Kerdinand

Germany113 Posts

August 14 2017 18:26 GMT

#25

Why do people always try to change this game into a glorified version of Broodwar? THIS IS NOT BW, THIS IS SC2!
Secondly, why do people always seem to nerf everything they dont like in the game (MSC, cannon rush, warpgate, oracle harass just on the P side of things) and then add some minor, irrelevant nerfs to their own race in order to make it look like they acutally tried to stay unbiased?
Thirdly, why do people make these "community"(as if more than one person made this) patch mods anyways. Few people will like them, nobody will actually play them more than once or twice (if at all) and a lot of people will rage on you because you screwed up game balance by changing numbers to arbitrary values you think make the game better than the numbers chosen by people who literally get paid to keep this game fun and balanced.
/rant. Sorry, but I had to get this one off my mind.

JimmyJRaynor

Canada16700 Posts

August 14 2017 18:26 GMT

#26

i really like LotV as it stands right now. the game is in phenomenal shape.

i like seeing things like Starbow and this MOD proposal though. It helps to have a constant simmering pot of new ideas , approaches and experiences.

its especially important now with RTS studios dropping like flies. Gearbox/Blackbird ain't gonna touch the RTS genre again after their Homeworld commercial failure. Relic's DoW3 was a commercial bomb and i'm worried what kind of budget they'll be afforded in the future due to this latest commercial failure.

404AlphaSquad

839 Posts

August 14 2017 18:51 GMT

#27

Drastic changes like this would motivate me to try the game again.

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