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Elentos
55566 Posts
On March 30 2017 05:42 Charoisaur wrote: switch aLive and Ryung and I agree. Ryung isn't really that impressive outside of tvt. I think Ryung's TvP is currently a lot better than people seem to give him credit for. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
I think Ryung's TvP is currently a lot better than people seem to give him credit for. Yeah I was going to say this. Ryung 2-0'd Zest twice after all, and managed to take two games off of Stats, the best PvT player by far. And I would say his TvT is overrated. Sure he beat ByuN and Maru, but neither of them have world-class TvT even though they are arguably world-class Terrans. Even though most people speak of ByuN, Maru, TY, and INnoVation in one breath, TY and Inno are measurably stronger than ByuN and Maru right now, especially in TvT. While TY has the best TvP and Inno has the best TvZ, both of them are at the very least just as good as Ryung/Gumiho/aLive in TvT, something which can't be said for ByuN and Maru. At this point, I'd argue that there's some pretty solid justification for splitting up the "Four Horsemen" because Inno and TY are a level above (and the only other players on their level are Stats and Dark). Coming back from that digression, Inno crushed Ryung 3-0 at IEM and 2-0 in the Super qualifiers; Ryung has good TvT but it's hardly the best in the world. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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Edpayasugo
United Kingdom2217 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 30 2017 06:05 pvsnp wrote: Yeah I was going to say this. Ryung 2-0'd Zest twice after all, and managed to take two games off of Stats, the best PvT player by far. And I would say his TvT is overrated. Sure he beat ByuN and Maru, but neither of them have world-class TvT even though they are arguably world-class Terrans. Even though most people speak of ByuN, Maru, TY, and INnoVation in one breath, TY and Inno are measurably stronger than ByuN and Maru right now, especially in TvT. While TY has the best TvP and Inno has the best TvZ, both of them are at the very least just as good as Ryung/Gumiho/aLive in TvT, something which can't be said for ByuN and Maru. At this point, I'd argue that there's some pretty solid justification for splitting up the "Four Horsemen" because Inno and TY are a level above (and the only other players on their level are Stats and Dark). Coming back from that digression, Inno crushed Ryung 3-0 at IEM and 2-0 in the Super qualifiers; Ryung has good TvT but it's hardly the best in the world. Beating Zest in TvP isn't an amzing thing right now. The matchup becomes progressively easier when the protoss never transitions. Maru's TvT is weak? really? since the major patch he's currently: 9-6 against TY 5-0 against gumiho 5-4 against Byun 2-3 against aLive 1-3 against Ryung thats pretty damn solid. | ||
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LaughNgamez
Canada525 Posts
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Elentos
55566 Posts
On March 30 2017 08:11 LaughNgamez wrote: Lots of complaints about Terran being broken yet no one mentions how VSL is the exact opposite in favor of Toss. 8-4-4 cherry picking at its finest. VSL also had best of 1 qualifier memes and one group where only 2 players bothered to show up. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Beating Zest in TvP isn't an amzing thing right now. The matchup becomes progressively easier when the protoss never transitions. Maru's TvT is weak? really? since the major patch he's currently: 9-6 against TY 5-0 against gumiho 5-4 against Byun 2-3 against aLive 1-3 against Ryung thats pretty damn solid. Maru hasn't been playing in much at all lately, because of Jin Air still being a team. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that he hasn't show enough top-level gameplay to justify being placed up with TY and Inno. Also Stats did roflstomp him in SSL, something which never happened to Inno or TY. It was embarrassing to watch, how he played right into Stats's hands both games. Both Inno and TY have done far better against Stats. He also lost to Dark in Super qualifiers yesterday, and basically just doesn't have a good record against top-tier opponents, just like ByuN and unlike both TY and Inno. Without consistently excellent results against the best players, it's hard to justify placing him at the very top. | ||
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Good, GomTvT was the best. eliminate the dirty protoss, especially stats. hopefully soo can extract his revenge and stomp him. would be ok with sos winning tho .....Terran usually produces the best matchups (TvZ by far most entertaining matchup), but TvT is awful to watch. Just poking and prodding until bam-doomdrop-gg. It's so luck-dependent, so scouting-dependent, that it's basically down to whomever makes the first mistake loses. Even guys like TY or INnoVation can't manage much better than that. Also, there's the loathsome aspect where lesser Terrans defeat superior Terrans and then get stomped by the top Protoss/Zerg players that otherwise would have produced great matches against the top Terrans but alas they got sniped. I hate it so much when that happens. | ||
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zealotstim
United States455 Posts
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seopthi
393 Posts
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On March 30 2017 11:32 zealotstim wrote: Sweet equal distribution haha terran zerg toss and terran. Honestly the main ones I can think of who are missing are Classic and sOs. Who else was there? Zest as well. | ||
Poopi
France12908 Posts
On March 30 2017 11:02 pvsnp wrote: .....Terran usually produces the best matchups (TvZ by far most entertaining matchup), but TvT is awful to watch. Just poking and prodding until bam-doomdrop-gg. It's so luck-dependent, so scouting-dependent, that it's basically down to whomever makes the first mistake loses. Even guys like TY or INnoVation can't manage much better than that. Also, there's the loathsome aspect where lesser Terrans defeat superior Terrans and then get stomped by the top Protoss/Zerg players that otherwise would have produced great matches against the top Terrans but alas they got sniped. I hate it so much when that happens. It depends on the patch tho. At Blizzcon, ByuN vs TY had very good macro games: even if you "doom dropped" you could counter it with tankivacs and it involved a lot of multitasking, which was fun to see, but now TvT is almost only positioning in the most boring way possible. | ||
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MalditoKyo
France76 Posts
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Eiltonn
Germany307 Posts
On March 30 2017 11:02 pvsnp wrote: .....Terran usually produces the best matchups (TvZ by far most entertaining matchup), but TvT is awful to watch. Just poking and prodding until bam-doomdrop-gg. It's so luck-dependent, so scouting-dependent, that it's basically down to whomever makes the first mistake loses. Even guys like TY or INnoVation can't manage much better than that. Also, there's the loathsome aspect where lesser Terrans defeat superior Terrans and then get stomped by the top Protoss/Zerg players that otherwise would have produced great matches against the top Terrans but alas they got sniped. I hate it so much when that happens. Its really sad because TvT used to be by far the best mirror matchup. Gosh i loved playing TvT in WoL. Ever since HOTS the matchup has been shit tho. | ||
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RPR_Tempest
Australia7798 Posts
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RKC
2848 Posts
On March 30 2017 19:50 RPR_Tempest wrote: Serious question. What's so super about this tournament? Nothing, there's no  Super | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 30 2017 11:02 pvsnp wrote: .....Terran usually produces the best matchups (TvZ by far most entertaining matchup), but TvT is awful to watch. Just poking and prodding until bam-doomdrop-gg. It's so luck-dependent, so scouting-dependent, that it's basically down to whomever makes the first mistake loses. Even guys like TY or INnoVation can't manage much better than that. Also, there's the loathsome aspect where lesser Terrans defeat superior Terrans and then get stomped by the top Protoss/Zerg players that otherwise would have produced great matches against the top Terrans but alas they got sniped. I hate it so much when that happens. I agree that TvT is annoying in the fact that lesser terrans can easily snipe the best ones, only to to to P/Z right after. That beind said, Katowice had some great TvTs with inno, alive, and ty | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24593 Posts
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