On February 18 2017 20:34 ParksonVN wrote: The way sOs ADEPTED both Keen and Bunny makes me confused. Did sOs remind other Protoss players that Adept all in is still a very strong strategy vs Terran or these two Terran are just that bad ? Would it be the same result if sOs play against Inno or TY ?
I think it's a good enough strategy that most protoss will want to have it in their arsenal and terran should put some preparation into dealing with it. But I don't think we're about to see stats use it vs inno. Maybe just to surprise him one game but not in multiple games like sOs did. It'll be really interesting to see what sOs will do if he plays another terran this gsl. The adept thing is not just one build that can be easily identified by terran so it's a constant threat throughout a series. But I don't think it'll have the same potency since the effectiveness we saw was partly due to mistakes Keen and Bunny made. The next terran sOs faces will have a better plan prepared.
not sure about sos but classic can beat innovation with adept allin haha, and on some maps like whirlwind its hard to scout it even spending a scan
That's not the point. Who won that series? (It wasn't Classic) sOs can definitely take a game through adept allins, but he can't win a series.
KeeN and Bunny are decent Terrans, but they're nowhere near the Triumvirate.
the point is that adept allins are too strong against most terran builds and units at early game, you don't even need glaives to win cuz it hits before shields, sometimes I even glad that game have that ez mode and I can offrace 7 gate adept allin in pvt and safe fast carriers in pvz.
On February 18 2017 20:34 ParksonVN wrote: The way sOs ADEPTED both Keen and Bunny makes me confused. Did sOs remind other Protoss players that Adept all in is still a very strong strategy vs Terran or these two Terran are just that bad ? Would it be the same result if sOs play against Inno or TY ?
I think it's a good enough strategy that most protoss will want to have it in their arsenal and terran should put some preparation into dealing with it. But I don't think we're about to see stats use it vs inno. Maybe just to surprise him one game but not in multiple games like sOs did. It'll be really interesting to see what sOs will do if he plays another terran this gsl. The adept thing is not just one build that can be easily identified by terran so it's a constant threat throughout a series. But I don't think it'll have the same potency since the effectiveness we saw was partly due to mistakes Keen and Bunny made. The next terran sOs faces will have a better plan prepared.
Keen caught the first prism and still got bopped. I dno how you prevent 7-gate adept from shading on top of your tanks and killing everything, or at least being extremely cost-efficient.
I don't play T or P, but that just looked super gross and abusive.
Finally pros and people are realizing what i've said for months - 3 nexus PvT tilts the match-up heavily in Protosses favor.
Look at all of the games from last night. Every game P always gets their third before Terran and then just always has a larger army + a warp prism to harrass + can defend 2 base Terran.
All the casters and people that keep saying the match-up is T favored are very biased/clueless imo. You'll see more Protoss realize soon 3 nexus PvT is really easy to play and almost any decision you make after being up 3 base vs 2 is a winning decision vs Terran.
It's not like 7-gate adept is a new thing. I'm fairly certain sOs got destroyed when he went for it against ByuN last GSL multiple times, because ByuN just knew every piece of the build and countered it all.
On February 18 2017 20:34 ParksonVN wrote: The way sOs ADEPTED both Keen and Bunny makes me confused. Did sOs remind other Protoss players that Adept all in is still a very strong strategy vs Terran or these two Terran are just that bad ? Would it be the same result if sOs play against Inno or TY ?
I think it's a good enough strategy that most protoss will want to have it in their arsenal and terran should put some preparation into dealing with it. But I don't think we're about to see stats use it vs inno. Maybe just to surprise him one game but not in multiple games like sOs did. It'll be really interesting to see what sOs will do if he plays another terran this gsl. The adept thing is not just one build that can be easily identified by terran so it's a constant threat throughout a series. But I don't think it'll have the same potency since the effectiveness we saw was partly due to mistakes Keen and Bunny made. The next terran sOs faces will have a better plan prepared.
Keen caught the first prism and still got bopped. I dno how you prevent 7-gate adept from shading on top of your tanks and killing everything, or at least being extremely cost-efficient.
I don't play T or P, but that just looked super gross and abusive.
Small changes in build order, unit composition, building placement, unit positioning, etc, all add up to a massive difference in how effective it is.
In that game, Keen clearly had a plan to harass with a liberator and deflect the warp prism with a viking. The liberator made it so sOs was all-in but it didn't weaken the adept attack much, so if anything it was a detriment to Keen's defense.
The viking prevented the first big warp-in from being in Keen's base, but since that map has a back door expansion, Keen has to defend 3 places to actually benefit: both his mineral lines and the entrance to his base. On a normal map, the entrance and his expansion's mineral line can be defended simultaneously. That first group of adepts just killed a depot and they were in.
With perfect play, Keen could have deterred or killed the 2nd warp prism and held his ramp, and with the liberator harass, sOs's strat would have looked like a joke. But Keen's viking went the wrong way, his mine and marines weren't in position to deter the 2nd prism, his tanks were actually both unsieged. He got outplayed because the prism started to warp in, drawing all his units, but then the prism retreated unscathed and the outside adepts had a chance to bust his wall. He then overreacted to that, which let the warp prism come back and warp in (viking was late to respond).
On that map (proxima), terran can also build a wall between main and natural, which would have helped Keen. He could have raised it when his ramp was busted and defended his main scv line and deterred the warp prism simultaneously.
Trust me, TY (or the other terrans if they go all the way to the final) can watch every single one of sOs's adept games here and see a million things to improve on what Keen/Bunny did in each one. He may also just take a completely different approach (different build order, unit composition) that'll have a lot more preparation behind it than Keen's 2nd attempt did.
That's not to say that it'll be trivial but the point is it's not something to panic about. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the terran pros were embarrassed for their race and are eager to be able to show the world how to shut that shit down. It's not a new strat. Keen and Bunny were just caught off guard and sOs is very clever and opportunistic in how he executes things.
On February 18 2017 20:34 ParksonVN wrote: The way sOs ADEPTED both Keen and Bunny makes me confused. Did sOs remind other Protoss players that Adept all in is still a very strong strategy vs Terran or these two Terran are just that bad ? Would it be the same result if sOs play against Inno or TY ?
I don't see it working on Inno or TY, Bunny or Keen are not even close to them.
well let's not forget that sOs can manage to make work stuff that isn't supposed to work : not only he has excellent micro but he is a strategical genius when it comes to find out the one build that will catch his opponent off guard.
Anyone who watched that $100k match between herO and sOs as it was happening knows the justice that needs to be served. It was such a travesty. I don't blame sOs for doing anything to win, but at the same time it felt like watching someone getting robbed on camera. herO needs to win this.
On February 19 2017 07:40 zealotstim wrote: Anyone who watched that $100k match between herO and sOs as it was happening knows the justice that needs to be served. It was such a travesty. I don't blame sOs for doing anything to win, but at the same time it felt like watching someone getting robbed on camera. herO needs to win this.
Maru just rekt the terrans of his group and he is going to rekt Ryung and Inno to have a chance to win GSL. (If stats wins vs Inno, then Stats to the final).
On February 19 2017 10:33 Argonauta wrote: Maru just rekt the terrans of his group and he is going to rekt Ryung and Inno to have a chance to win GSL. (If stats wins vs Inno, then Stats to the final).
sOs advances second and Maru advances first is the best result for both of them to make to final.
On February 19 2017 05:00 Elentos wrote: It's not like 7-gate adept is a new thing. I'm fairly certain sOs got destroyed when he went for it against ByuN last GSL multiple times, because ByuN just knew every piece of the build and countered it all.
Just remind you, tankivac was still a thing back then.SOS couldn't shade on top of siege tank because ByuN just picked them up. Now its different story.
On February 19 2017 05:00 Elentos wrote: It's not like 7-gate adept is a new thing. I'm fairly certain sOs got destroyed when he went for it against ByuN last GSL multiple times, because ByuN just knew every piece of the build and countered it all.
Just remind you, tankivac was still a thing back then.SOS couldn't shade on top of siege tank because ByuN just picked them up. Now its different story.
And that's the reason Byun has fallen this year, he must hope tanks can fly again.
On February 20 2017 02:33 MyTHicaL wrote: I wonder if it wouldn't have been slightly smarter for Maru to aim for 2nd place.. Ryung's tvt is by far top 3 in the world :s.
I'll give him top 5 but top 3 by far? Definitely not. Also 2nd place plays herO who has arguably the best PvT in the world, that's not an amazing prospect for Maru either.
EPT
