EPTOn March 17 2015 01:10 Aeromi wrote:
I'm pretty sure you reached the final of some Premier tournaments.
I'm pretty sure you reached the final of some Premier tournaments.
I'm always there or there abouts, feature me then.
Revised Featured Stream Requirements for 2015 - Page 13
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messioso
Denmark635 Posts
I'm always there or there abouts, feature me then. | ||
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Cheren
United States2911 Posts
Basically just say he botted himself and ban him, or feature him for the same reason HTOMario isn't featured. (amount of viewers before viewbotting happened) | ||
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Cazimirbzh
334 Posts
On March 17 2015 01:32 Cheren wrote: Winter met the "Full time streamer with at least 250 constant viewers" requirement before he was ever accused of viewbotting, he had about 300-500 viewers every night (with about the same amount of chat activity as he does now lol). While I believe it's completely proven that he viewbotted, I also believe he met the current feature requirements without the aid of viewbots. Basically just say he botted himself and ban him, or feature him for the same reason HTOMario isn't featured. (amount of viewers before viewbotting happened) We have also advised HTOMario to clear up the viewbotting issue with Twitch, and to try to find a way to eradicate his stream of bots. Once he his stream has been cleared by Twitch and his numbers reach the viewer threshold, he will be re-featured immediately. they're both in the same situation. They wont be featured untill they have cleared with twitch this the viewbotting issue | ||
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HelloTello
United States3 Posts
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hewo
Norway119 Posts
But still, seeing as TL.net is the #1 international sc2 forum I think it's good that they set a clear example and uphold a zero-tolerance for this kind of behaviour (voluntary or not). I just think some of the personal-level talk that has been going on in this thread could have been avoided if less judgement was made apprarent in the OP. But thats just my gut feeling. I hope some twitch developers find a good way to deal with this, thinking that this issue will resolve itself is just blatantly ignorant, if people keep gaining popularity and 600 loyal subs from viewbotting it's damn sure other people will try it out as well. My first thought goes to Google's reCaptcha, which works wonders wherever it is enforced. Maybe enforcing captchas in channels where viewbots is suspected is a place to start, but I'm sure alot of thought has to go into an algorithm to fix the problem. But it needs to be done! | ||
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HellHound
Bulgaria5962 Posts
On March 16 2015 15:48 Pontius Pirate wrote: Aww man, that would be really disappointing if he was. He's my favorite Terran streamer, now that QXC has fluttered off the the + Show Spoiler + aliev gaem Qxc actually streamed some a few days ago. With zerg but still it was funny. | ||
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nGnalucarD
Canada26 Posts
I'll just delete the favorite and use twitch directly. Bye everyone! | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
On March 17 2015 01:55 nGnalucarD wrote: Fine with me, I barely used this site anyway. I'll just delete the favorite and use twitch directly. Bye everyone!  | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
Winter had been trying to build up his stream for a long time. He would be the first to notice. Streamers are always looking at their numbers trying to figure out how to increase them, trying to figure out how they earned more viewers a certain session so they can do it again. If he knew and reported it to Twitch and Twitch was impotent, all the more reason for TL to make their own decisions without waiting to follow Twitch's lead. If he knew and didn't put in an honest effort to take down the bot network, then he's culpable. Winter has behaved exactly as a guilty person would behave. An innocent person would either be totally disinterested, which Winter wasn't from the beginning so that route was never possible for him, or they'd be the loudest voice proclaiming that their own viewer numbers don't make sense. | ||
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EmoryToss17
United States10 Posts
On March 17 2015 02:10 NonY wrote: I don't see why a viewbotting service would provide business to someone without the streamer being in on it. Given how NickHotS's research showed the viewbots were set up (a group of viewbots servicing multiple customers), a single streamer not being in on the conspiracy adds risk to the whole operation. The whole point of a normal viewbotting service is to make people think those are legitimate viewers. It's supposed to be done stealthily. Everyone involved needs to be in on it with that same goal in mind. Winter had been trying to build up his stream for a long time. He would be the first to notice. Streamers are always looking at their numbers trying to figure out how to increase them, trying to figure out how they earned more viewers a certain session so they can do it again. If he knew and reported it to Twitch and Twitch was impotent, all the more reason for TL to make their own decisions without waiting to follow Twitch's lead. If he knew and didn't put in an honest effort to take down the bot network, then he's culpable. Winter has behaved exactly as a guilty person would behave. An innocent person would either be totally disinterested, which Winter wasn't from the beginning so that route was never possible for him, or they'd be the loudest voice proclaiming that their own viewer numbers don't make sense. Exactly this. The fact that people are buying the "guise someone is viewbotting me for no reason I swear its not me!" Sounds like something a 2nd grader would come up with after they got caught stealing. I can't believe anyone is buying it in the first place. | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
On March 17 2015 02:10 NonY wrote: I don't see why a viewbotting service would provide business to someone without the streamer being in on it. Given how NickHotS's research showed the viewbots were set up (a group of viewbots servicing multiple customers), a single streamer not being in on the conspiracy adds risk to the whole operation. The whole point of a normal viewbotting service is to make people think those are legitimate viewers. It's supposed to be done stealthily. Everyone involved needs to be in on it with that same goal in mind. Winter had been trying to build up his stream for a long time. He would be the first to notice. Streamers are always looking at their numbers trying to figure out how to increase them, trying to figure out how they earned more viewers a certain session so they can do it again. If he knew and reported it to Twitch and Twitch was impotent, all the more reason for TL to make their own decisions without waiting to follow Twitch's lead. If he knew and didn't put in an honest effort to take down the bot network, then he's culpable. Winter has behaved exactly as a guilty person would behave. An innocent person would either be totally disinterested, which Winter wasn't from the beginning so that route was never possible for him, or they'd be the loudest voice proclaiming that their own viewer numbers don't make sense. I looked up some bot services, and it is just as simple as putting in the channel name, according to one video I watched, to "bot friends," and the like. From the Viewbot service's perspective I imagine its all money to them, they are, after all providing a service which expressly violates the ToS for Twitch. I don't think there is much value in linking the accounts from the view bot service's perspective is all. | ||
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HsDLTitich
Italy830 Posts
On March 17 2015 01:41 HelloTello wrote: Team Liquid seems to be functioning as the enforcement arm of /r/starcraft. Ye I find it scary tbh, TL always ignored the stupid witch hunts operated by /r/starcraft, but not this time. I'm not saying that there aren't proofs that Winter viewbotted, but god those threads were toxic, I just hoped that that toxicity didn't spread here (edit: now that I reread, I don't mean that this topic is toxic, I'm losing something in translation... I mean, I hope TL doesn't become a toxic place like /r/starcraft is, by becoming its enforcement arm). I would have waited 'til Twitch did something themselves, it'd be more neutral. | ||
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Skynx
Turkey7150 Posts
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Ace Frehley
2030 Posts
I mean, if you can't rely on the numbers that twitch shows, their whole system is useless for announcers, advertisers, sponsors | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On March 17 2015 02:10 NonY wrote: Winter has behaved exactly as a guilty person would behave. An innocent person would either be totally disinterested, which Winter wasn't from the beginning so that route was never possible for him, or they'd be the loudest voice proclaiming that their own viewer numbers don't make sense. This part of your reasoning is completely and utterly invalid. | ||
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utelektr
United States109 Posts
1. On-stream conduct determined unacceptable to Team Liquid. This includes acts of racism, homophobia, hate speech, and general assholery So, I guess the requirements for streams on LiquidDota are different,then? | ||
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SNSeigifried
United States1640 Posts
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
On March 17 2015 03:14 utelektr wrote: So, I guess the requirements for streams on LiquidDota are different,then? page 3 or so says it's different for LL. I assume LD would be different as well. | ||
Falling
Canada11349 Posts
On March 16 2015 23:50 Cazimirbzh wrote:i see pple donate 500 €/$ to streamer and sometimes more so i dont understand why it's difficult to imagine someone pay for good or bad reasons to viewbot Donating to a streamer that you like has a very clear cause and effect line on who benefits. I like a streamer, I want to support him, I give money. I have lots of money; I give him lots of money. The scenario ZeromuS is describing is such a roundabout plan of revenge that it makes the Fenian raids to capture Canada to free Ireland from Britain seem sensible. I hate a streamer, so I raise him up from obscurity by spending thousands of dollars to raise his profile. I wait for him to get featured on TL, get sponsorships, get legitimate viewers... and then I... ??? Pull the plug? Reveal my diabolical plan and laugh maniacally? He loses a TL feature, which he did not have before I started viewbotting! How am I ahead in masterplan? Why not save my thousands and let the streamer I hate stay in obscurity and troll his stream for free? The whole raise them up to bring them crashing down makes no sense as there is no guarantee there IS a crashdown- just take a look at this thread. Winter's legitimate supporters are coming out in droves to support him through thick and thin- the evil masterplan has already failed because gaining enough traction gives you a stickiness in streaming viewers. Once supporters are gained, they don't go away so easily. For an evil masterplan, it is incredibly stupid because it costs so much and benefits Winter far more than it could ever hurt him to simply never viewbot him in the first place. I can see targeted troll viewbotting like what happened to Mario, but not a whole year, not in the way it happened for Winter. We really did go to the moon, 9/11 was not an inside job, and either someone sympathetic to Winter or Winter himself was viewbotting for the purpose of raising Winter's profile. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
On March 17 2015 02:40 HsDLTitich wrote: Ye I find it scary tbh, TL always ignored the stupid witch hunts operated by /r/starcraft, but not this time. I'm not saying that there aren't proofs that Winter viewbotted, but god those threads were toxic, I just hoped that that toxicity didn't spread here (edit: now that I reread, I don't mean that this topic is toxic, I'm losing something in translation... I mean, I hope TL doesn't become a toxic place like /r/starcraft is, by becoming its enforcement arm). I would have waited 'til Twitch did something themselves, it'd be more neutral. I think this is one of the last things you need to worry about. Trust me when I say that TL is not going to turn to reddit, not as long as I am here, and not as long as many of my TL cohort are around. | ||
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